Alliance - Good/Heroes, Horde - Bad/Villains?

[Lotus Victoria]

Hello champions! Good to see you today.

So, I've been a horde player since I played WoW for the first time, in 2008. Love my tauren till this day.

But I've also been thinking: Are the horde people...bad? Like...villains?

Some of the best heroes of Azeroth are warriors from the horde (Thrall, Baine, Rexxar, etc), but ignoring that fact and generalizing a lil' bit, the Horde has done (and it's still doing) bad things till this day.

Meanwhile, the Alliance usually gets a free pass as the heroes of Azeroth, the good people, good guys.

So, can the horde be considered an "evil faction"?

Thanks for your attention!

See you soon!

[Venziir]

No. Neither faction is good nor bad. They are both grey and have commited crimes as well as performed heroic deeds. Both factions have come together to save Azeroth quite a few times. Individuals are good or bad, the factions are not.

Also, the Horde hasn't done anything really, aside from when Garrosh was at the rear, which quickly resulted in a revolution and the scorn of the other races.

[Deleted]

Illidan, Kael'thas, Naga, Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, Medivh are all considered "bad guys" who were Alliance, just like Garrosh, Grom, Sylvanas, etc who are/were Horde.

[Huntermyth]

no horde is not the '' evil '' faction and i am not saying this because of my banner. there is garrosh and then there is garithos. they are evil, yes but they don't represent their respective factions because they were influenced by the sha or the eredar or whatever.

short answer is no, horde or alliance is not evil.

[Arrashi]

Horde is bastion of both lawfullness and goodness. Sure it has some bad apples but 99.99999999% of population doesn't support them.

For instance, all orcs that supported garrosh were cut out from cardboard.

Also, the Horde hasn't done anything really, aside from when Garrosh was at the rear, which quickly resulted in a revolution and the scorn of the other races.

That is super 100% true. Take example of lady sylvanas windrunner who is paragon of all virtues and how she relocated all the gilneans in humane fashion.

[Venziir]

Horde is bastion of both lawfullness and goodness. Sure it has some bad apples but 99.99999999% of population doesn't support them.

For instance, all orcs that supported garrosh were cut out from cardboard.


That is super 100% true. Take example of lady sylvanas windrunner who is paragon of all virtues and how she relocated all the gilneans in humane fashion.

Which she did because Garrosh ordered her to. And clearly you missed the part about INDIVIDUALS.

[Arrashi]

Which she did because Garrosh ordered her to. And clearly you missed the part about INDIVIDUALS.

But i didn't ? As i said vast majority of honorable horde members never, ever supported any bad apple. In fact, they really hate bad apples.
Look at cro threadstrong - he isn't even member of the horde, but his orciness forces him to hate bad apples.

[Venziir]

But i didn't ? As i said vast majority of honorable horde members never, ever supported any bad apple. In fact, they really hate bad apples.
Look at cro threadstrong - he isn't even member of the horde, but his orciness forces him to hate bad apples.

O jolly, well at least you are sarcastic,- that would just be a terrible thing.

[Kristya]

I think good and evil are all about perspective. I don't consider the Horde to be "evil", nor do I consider the Alliance to be the "good" faction either. Even Garrosh, for the first 75% of his tenure as Warchief, did what he thought was best for the Horde.

[Pull My Finger]

Don't know about good and evil - but what it obviously comes down to is:

Horde = ugly, smelly
Alliance = not hideous looking; personal hygiene

[xso111]

there are no good, and bad faction both faction had done evil and good deeds. just because a member of a faction had done good/evil means all the members of that said faction will do the same.

just like what protagoras said, a good arguement can be made worse, and a worse arguement can be made good. a good example is malygos
on one side he just wants take magic from mortals to prevent the events in WotA from reoccuring hence he's good, but he's taking magic out of mortals hands, and according to alextrasza and dalaran it's bad. just like how beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, evil and good both are as well.

[Ciddy]

Both factions have good guys and assholes. I wouldn't say one overall is more "good" than the other. The Horde just looked bad for a while because their Warchief happened to be one of said assholes.

Alliance side had dickheads like Blackmoore/Garithos/Benedictus. Horde side had dickheads like Garrosh/Magatha/Putress.

[Deleted]

Illidan, Kael'thas, Naga, Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, Medivh are all considered "bad guys" who were Alliance, just like Garrosh, Grom, Sylvanas, etc who are/were Horde.

Yes, the thing is we don't see Arthas as a hero of the Alliance. Grom is a hero of the Horde. Garrosh was the leader of the Horde, supported by the masses up to a point. Sylvannas is still part of the Horde. None of those you mentioned are part of the Alliance anymore. Medivh is the only one that could be seen somewhat like a hero, and that is more due to some knowing it was Sargeras who was at fault.
On the other hand, the Horde glorifies their "villans". Grom is a hero of the Horde. Garrosh was a hero and the warchief of the Horde (thought I'll admit that the Horde doesn't support either anymore). Sylvannas is a powerful leader of the Horde.
The only remotely close comparison is Moira as leader of the Dark Iron dwarves, but they have become more mild since they joined the Alliance or Maiev... but she kind of left the Alliance.

[Lynneiah]

Which she did because Garrosh ordered her to. And clearly you missed the part about INDIVIDUALS.

Garrosh also totally ordered her to use the plague bombs he explicitly forbade her from ever using again. Oh wait...

Sylvanas is a monster. There's no two ways about it. Whatever sense of morality she had as an elf has totally rotted away at this point. She is one of the more unambiguously evil characters we haven't killed off in a raid yet.
"But she loves her people and wants to protect them!"
She uses her people as a shield. She doesn't want to die, and isn't above using the Forsaken as puppets to achieve that goal.

[Deleted]

I think good and evil are all about perspective. I don't consider the Horde to be "evil", nor do I consider the Alliance to be the "good" faction either. Even Garrosh, for the first 75% of his tenure as Warchief, did what he thought was best for the Horde.

Sargeras also does what he thinks is best for himself and the Legion. Arthas also did what he thought was best for everyone. Azshara also does what is best for the naga. No, to be good you need to think of the other side too.

- - - Updated - - -

Overall though, I wouldn't say the Alliance is good and the Horde is evil.
It's more that the Alliance is light grey and the Horde is dark grey. However as more lore is added, I see the Alliance getting white washed more and more, becoming more white, while the Horde remains where it is or even becomes more dark, which leads to the impression that they're evil.
For example, the Dark irons, who were evil more or less, joined the Alliance. They became good. The Highbourne, who siphoned a demon dog and killed their own, joined the Alliance. They became good. etc. All the evil elements in the Alliance disappear, which makes the issue more as:
Alliance - boring; Horde - somewhat grey yet still interesting.

[Lynneiah]

Yes, the thing is we don't see Arthas as a hero of the Alliance. Grom is a hero of the Horde. Garrosh was the leader of the Horde, supported by the masses up to a point. Sylvannas is still part of the Horde. None of those you mentioned are part of the Alliance anymore. Medivh is the only one that could be seen somewhat like a hero, and that is more due to some knowing it was Sargeras who was at fault.
On the other hand, the Horde glorifies their "villans". Grom is a hero of the Horde. Garrosh was a hero and the warchief of the Horde (thought I'll admit that the Horde doesn't support either anymore). Sylvannas is a powerful leader of the Horde.
The only remotely close comparison is Moira as leader of the Dark Iron dwarves, but they have become more mild since they joined the Alliance or Maiev... but she kind of left the Alliance.

Arguably Maiev never was part of the Alliance. She went off to hunt for Illidan before the Night Elves joined the Alliance, and after that she never really reintegrated into Night Elf society.
Similarly for Illidan, he was never part of the Alliance in the first place, and neither were the Naga. Arthas has more in common with the Forsaken than with the humans of Stormwind, and Kael'thas is a Blood Elf, who were Horde when he turned evil. Medivh was killed before the Alliance ever formed.

[Ciddy]

Also: I see Illidan mentioned as an "Alliance hero" a lot, and I've never really considered him a part of the Alliance. I don't think he's ever given a shit about the Horde or the Alliance, and I can't even imagine that he'd ever take orders from Varian Wrynn. I like to think he'd tell Varian right where to stick it.

He's always been either all about Night Elves or all about the Legion.

[Lynneiah]

Also: I see Illidan mentioned as an "Alliance hero" a lot, and I've never really considered him a part of the Alliance. I don't think he's ever given a shit about the Horde or the Alliance, and I can't even imagine that he'd ever take orders from Varian Wrynn. I like to think he'd tell Varian right where to stick it.

He's always been either all about Night Elves or all about the Legion.

Illidan is probably the most neutral character we'll ever get. He's not only not part of the Horde or the Alliance, he never interacted with either in any meaningful way. In Reign of Chaos, he fights the Legion, on his own, then gets banished. In Frozen Throne, he tries to destroy Ner'zhul (who is also neutral at this point), then is forced to flee to Outland. By the time the Blood Elves make contact with him, they have left the Alliance and are unaffiliated as well. At this point, he has never even seen a living Orc or Human in person.
The first meaningful encounter he has with the Horde and the Alliance is the Black Temple raid, where we kill him.

[Locknrollen]

At this point, he has never even seen a living Orc or Human in person..

Rhonin and Broxxigar says heyo

[Lynneiah]

Rhonin and Broxxigar says heyo

Alternate timeline says what's up.