Alliance - Good/Heroes, Horde - Bad/Villains?

[Xilurm]

No, it doesn't. If he were controlled...he wouldn't be able to disobey. Disobedience is an act of free will. Hence, not Mind Control. So, again, Case Closed.

Yeah and Arthas didn't disobey.

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Thank you for that Quote Aqua, I didn't have the book with me.

So, that's not helping your cause at all. He feels no remorse or pity or shame because he is under the will of the Lich King.

[Rhinopotamus]

I consider Horde to be the good guys. I mean yeah we had the whole stint where we followed some demons because some Warlock told us it was a good idea, and he used trickery to convince our greatest prophet and warrior it was a good idea, but in the end we are the good guys. Alliance look at em, they are racists, through and through. Humans hate Blood Elves, Night Elves think they are better then everybody, Gnomes think they are the best Engineers, but can't reclaim their own capital from some radiation they caused, and the list goes on. Horde on the other hand had ONE Racist, Garrosh, and WE disposed of him, and replaced him.

Horde Wins. Lok'tar Ogar. May Sylvannas, Grom, Thrall, and Vol'jin live long and great lives. May Jaina, Varian, and the Purple Bitch die horrible deaths.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yeah and Arthas didn't disobey.

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Because he didn't want to. Not because he couldn't.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yeah and Arthas didn't disobey.

Because He liked being a Deathknight, no mind control.

So, that's not helping you cause at all. He feels no remorse or pity or shame because he is under the will of the Lich King.

Honest question time! Are you serious? Are you really Serious? Like Seriously? Can you look at what you typed without shuddering in silent shame? How could you type something so daft in seriousness? Or did you pray that no one would notice if you didn't finish the paragraph?

“Like Mal’Ganis, I am a dreadlord. But I am not your enemy,” Tichondrius had reassured him. The lips twisted in a smile that was more of a sneer. “In truth, I’ve come to congratulate you. By killing your own father and delivering this land to the Scourge, you have passed your first test. The Lich King is pleased with your…enthusiasm.”
Arthas felt buffeted by twin emotions—pain and exultation.
“Yes,” he said, keeping his voice steady in front of the demon, “I’ve damned everyone and everything I’ve ever loved in his name, and I still feel no remorse. No pity. No shame.”
And in his heart of hearts, there came another whisper, but not from Frostmourne: Liar.
He forced the sentiment down. That voice would be silenced, somehow. He could not afford to permit the softness to grow. It was like gangrene; it would eat him, if he let it.
--Rise of the Lich King

[Lady Dragonheart]

No, it doesn't. If he were controlled...he wouldn't be able to disobey. Disobedience is an act of free will. Hence, not Mind Control. So, again, Case Closed.

You obviously do not know what mind control is...

There are many forms of mind control. This one is called mental conditioning.

[Zulkhan]

It's true that the Lich King forces his will to the Death Knights. The tricky part with Arthas though is that he never had to force much to him. Once his soul was stolen, he utterly followed Ner'zhul's way. His "voice of reason" was nothing but a whisper he could promptly silence as he grew pissed of it. This is different from Thassarian, for example, within the "Death Knight" manga, Arthas had doubts about his loyalty and forced him to kill his own mother in order to prove it. In all his conflicts, he eventually killed her and tossed aside her amulet to forget about her.

Arthas never had this strong kind of doubts. Hell, he was the one who ordered to Thassarian to kill his mother and the latter had reservations about it, Arthas had none of them when he killed Terenas, he just had some "voice of reason" haunting him later which he easily shut down. Even during the assault of Quel'thalas Thassarian is haunted by his mother's memory which is what prevented him from killing Koltira's brother in cold blood...where Arthas was soon going to have "fun" with Sylvanas by sadistically torture her without the slightest hint of mercy.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You obviously do not know what mind control is...

There are many forms of mind control. This one is called mental conditioning.

I can only take so much desperate posts before I can no longer take the subject seriously. The quote Literally one post above yours proves that wrong.

[Aquamonkey]

Yeah and Arthas didn't disobey.

So I guess Ner'zhul wanted his soul destroyed by Arthas?

“No,” Arthas whispered. “No we. No one tells me what to do. I’ve got everything I need from you—now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready.”
--Rise of the Lich King

[Lady Dragonheart]

Honest question time! Are you serious? Are you really Serious? Like Seriously? Can you look at what you typed without shuddering in silent shame? How could you type something so daft in seriousness? Or did you pray that no one would notice if you didn't finish the paragraph?

Again, this is long after he is no longer human and his soul is lost. You cannot be in control if you are a subservient pawn in a game, even if you become a queen on the board, you're still a game-piece controlled like the others. Therefore, it isn't sufficient evidence. He was long past main into a mindless minion by then, following ever little command issue by the Scourge.

[Xilurm]

honest question, are you serious? Are you really Serious? Like Seriously? Can you look at what you typed without shuddering in silent shame? How could you type something so daft in seriousness?

Prove where exactly does it state that he himself was keeping these feelings locked and not the Lich King.

[Lady Dragonheart]

So I guess Ner'zhul wanted Arthas to destroy his soul?

Precisely, and end his torment. Being trapped in the frozen throne was a punishment, not a boon.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You obviously do not know what mind control is...

There are many forms of mind control. This one is called mental conditioning.

Mental conditioning is not Mind Control.
And, for someone who was "willing to bear any curse to save his people" he should be able to resist a little bit of conditioning. He doesn't even try.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I can only take so much desperate posts before I can no longer take the subject seriously. The quote Literally one post above yours proves that wrong.

How so? The burden of proof is a requirement.

[Xilurm]

So I guess Ner'zhul wanted his soul destroyed by Arthas?

They were one when he took up the helmet. Arthas wasn't a minion anymore.

[Aquamonkey]

Precisely, and end his torment. Being trapped in the frozen throne was a punishment, not a boon.

Hilarious. You obviously didn't read the book.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Prove where exactly does it state that he himself was keeping these feelings locked and not the Lich King.

He forced the sentiment down
He could not afford to permit the softness to grow
it would eat him if he let it

Pronouns are your friend.

[Faroth]

Yes, the Horde are the bad guys.

Except when they aren't. Then the Alliance are the bad guys. Except when they aren't.

Clear? :3

[Xilurm]

He forced the sentiment down
He could not afford to permit the softness to grow
it would eat him if he let it

Pronouns are your friend.

He did that because he was under control. Anyway I'm out, people have no idea what mind control is so this is a waste of time.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Again, this is long after he is no longer human and his soul is lost. You cannot be in control if you are a subservient pawn in a game, even if you become a queen on the board, you're still a game-piece controlled like the others. Therefore, it isn't sufficient evidence. He was long past main into a mindless minion by then, following ever little command issue by the Scourge.

I am disapointed in you, I thought you enjoyed honest discussion but now you are intentionally fabricating things to try to make your point seem reasonable.

Prove where exactly does it state that he himself was keeping these feelings locked and not the Lich King.

And in his heart of hearts, there came another whisper, but not from Frostmourne: Liar.
He forced the sentiment down. That voice would be silenced, somehow. He could not afford to permit the softness to grow. It was like gangrene; it would eat him, if he let it.

Today is not your day.

Precisely, and end his torment. Being trapped in the frozen throne was a punishment, not a boon.

then why did he not let Illidan kill him? Seriously think before you post.

How so? The burden of proof is a requirement.

which has been provided a dozen times over, the fact that you refuse to accept such obvious truths is another issue all together and quite an embarrassing on at that.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Mental conditioning is not Mind Control.
And, for someone who was "willing to bear any curse to save his people" he should be able to resist a little bit of conditioning. He doesn't even try.

That's because the moment he picked up Frostmorne, he became essentially mindless to the Lich king power and influence, the quote mentioned above even states this. He realizes how futile his efforts have been and he callowly follows the Lich King in a more subservient way than a pet would. He doesn't try because he doesn't have a choice but to serve the Lich King, as all Scourge do. It is no choice, there is no free will, there is only service and heeding the controlling dominance that the Lich King holds over the Scourge. This couldn't be any plainer.