Are video games narrative devices or any good as narrative devices?

[Theodarzna]

This is ideally a simple question, but are Video Games the new means of narrative story telling? So, much hay and hubub is being made about Video Games and what they are in our society. Are they narrative story telling art devices, much like TV shows, books, music and movies? Are they the new means of creating systems of symbols by which we understand and interpret the world? It also cuts to the core of if Video Games are art or not IMHO.

So, laying out my opinion...
Video Games are in it of themselves a kind of art, but a very tricky sort of art since as a means of narrative transmission it is very poor. What that means is that Games are less defined by their "system of symbols," and more by the mechanics of play. Which inherently makes the ability to "narrate," vague at beast since what defines a game first is its ability to be played, not viewed. The player can change the story, can alter it, or write it as they chose to. Thus the creator has very little control over the system of symbols and what they convey. Narration wise, games are very poor narration devices IMHO.

So....
What say thee?

Video Games? Are they new system of conveying narration like books, movies and music once were? Are they truly art?

[Anonymous1038853]

Games work better for some things, and worse for others. As a hobbyist horror game developer (though I mostly do mod work) I've examined this question at depth. What makes a horror game different from a horror novel or film? Well, the biggest thing is the emotional effect it has on the consumer. Arguably, games can immerse players - supposing they're willing to be immersed - far more so than other mediums. That is to say, a well-developed game can make an experience feel almost real. Like a vivid dream.

Exclusively for the sake of telling a story, that's not necessarily a factor, but in terms of imparting an experience it's huge. Because the antithesis to this are horror stories, and honestly, I've never really encountered a story that could impart to me the same feelings of fear and paranoia that a film or game could, with the latter still imparting the strongest thoughts and sensations. Surprise and atmosphere can be conveyed much more easily in a game, and that in turn can greatly influence the quality of a narrative.

[Theodarzna]

Games work better for some things, and worse for others. As a hobbyist horror game developer (though I mostly do mod work) I've really examined this question at depth. What makes a horror game different from a horror novel or film? Well, the biggest thing is the emotional effect it has on the consumer. Arguably, games can immerse players - supposing they're willing to be immersed - far more so than other mediums. That is to say, a well-developed game can make an experience feel almost real.

Exclusively for the sake of telling a story, that's not necessarily a factor, but in terms of imparting an experience it's huge. Because the antithesis to this are horror stories, and honestly, I've never really encountered a story that could impart to me the same feelings of fear and paranoia that a film or game could, with the latter still imparting the strongest thoughts and sensations. Surprise and atmosphere can be conveyed much more easily in a game, and that in turn can greatly influence the quality of a narrative.

For me Amnesia is the best of the horror franchises, custom stories allow for some great experiences.

[StationaryHawk]

Video games can be excellent narrative devices. They allow the player to become immersed in the story in a way other mediums can't.

[Anonymous1038853]

For me Amnesia is the best of the horror franchises, custom stories allow for some great experiences.

I've been working on a custom story for Amnesia for awhile now. I was hoping to have it finished by halloween, but I'm not too optimistic. If you enjoyed Amnesia, I would highly recommend its sequel, as well as Outlast (Plus my CS, once it's finished).

[Theodarzna]

I've been working on a custom story for Amnesia for awhile now. I was hoping to have it finished by halloween, but I'm not too optimistic. If you enjoyed Amnesia, I would highly recommend its sequel, as well as Outlast (Plus my CS, once it's finished).

For me, a Machine for Pigs and Justine were amazing. Of the custom stories, The Great Work is my all time favorite.

Outlast was fine but my old PC struggled with it when I first got Outlast. XD

[Anonymous1038853]

Of the custom stories, The Great Work is my all time favorite.

I feel as though I've gotten off-topic. But you're the OP, so I'll swallow my guilt. Have you played Damascus' other title? A Coward's Debt?

[Florena]

Are they? It depends on the game. I wouldn't say Super Mario Bros or Pac Man or Minecraft are. But The Last of Us, Mass Effect and Arkham Asylum are. Some video games have great narratives and stories, some are just about the gameplay. Just like some movies are deep stories and fleshed out characters and some are michael bay action porn flicks.

[Kolvarg]

Video games can be excellent narrative devices. They allow the player to become immersed in the story in a way other mediums can't.

Aye. They aren't inherently better or worse than other mediums, imo, as how good a medium is at narrative depends highly on the reader/watcher/player.

The simple fact that games can include many forms of art (text, audio, images and video) makes them powerful tools to deliver narrative.
There are many cut-scene driven games that deliver a good/interesting narrative (The Last of Us and Metal Gear Solid come to mind), but the best narrative-driven games deliver not only through cutscenes but also through gameplay.

With other narrative devices, you are limited to what the author wants you to focus on. With games you can not only do that, but also have the possibility of exploring whole worlds the way you want, focusing on the things you want, discovering details and back/side stories by yourself.

Interesting watch on the subject:
Extra Credits: Narrative Mechanics
Extra Credits - Mechanics and Tone - How Does Gameplay Relate to Story?

[Theodarzna]

I feel as though I've gotten off-topic. But you're the OP, so I'll swallow my guilt. Have you played Damascus' other title? A Coward's Debt?

YES........ OMG that one was actually chilling to me. Granted I was tipsy when I played it and finished it, so the ending surprised me. I legit didn't expect it.

[Independent voter]

It would be interesting to see someone like Cormac McCarthy, author of The Road, Blood Meridian, No Country for Old Men, write for a video game.

In my experience the story is pretty weak in most video games however it's made up for by putting you the consumer in the driver's seat. You aren't living vicariously through the protagonist, you are the protagonist. So I guess what I'm saying is video games are pretty different from written work. Games are still new, media needs time to grow to find artists who want to work with it and I hope I'm around 50 years from now to see what games are like then.

[apepi]

Honestly? It used to be pretty good as the games were focused on the stories because they did not have fancy graphics and mechanics, so the games were more story driven. Now games have this fancy graphics and features, so now days stories seem pretty ham fisted.

[Anonymous1038853]

YES........ OMG that one was actually chilling to me. Granted I was tipsy when I played it and finished it, so the ending surprised me. I legit didn't expect it.

Another title I greatly enjoyed was Key To Freedom.

Honestly? It used to be pretty good as the games were focused on the stories because they did not have fancy graphics and mechanics, so the games were more story driven. Now games have this fancy graphics and features, so now days stories seem pretty ham fisted.

I really don't think there's an inverse correlation between narrative quality and graphics. I hear this sentiment expressed often, but I genuinely believe it's a matter of rose-coloured glasses more often than not. People simply remember the good parts of games of the past, and subconsciously ignore the banality of that same era. I think this phenomenon happens with music every generation as well. YOMV, though.

[Lumicide]

Are games truly art: Yes. And just like art is broad enough that it includes dogshit like Jackson Pollock, and games include horseshit like <insert jim sterling squirty play series HERE>.

There may be objectively superior graphics, animations, this that or the other thing, but is there a measure of an objectively superior 'gameplay' experience? I'd say it's probably fair enough to suggest that gameplay itself is a form of art. There are so many dull shooters, and so few good ones. Or say WoW, I'd consider the peak of enjoyment in PvP to have been late WotLK. I somehow doubt that it is an objective statement to say that the PvP was in fact superior back then.

One of the benefits of games is that they have far less limitations in storytelling than pretty much any other art form. You could actually experience what the designer had in mind, rather than just seeing it, or just having to imagine it according to a description. It's just a step below holodeck/matrix! Even if games hadn't made a story that was superior than any other art form, the potential is always there. However there already are stories in games that I do think fairly easily rival many of those in TV/Film, like Bioshock Infinite...

"he player can change the story, can alter it, or write it as they chose to..."
This is quite rare, most stories are directed. It's only in those pretentious "paint your own character" type "rpgs" that you get the "choice" of writing your own story. The choices that can be made are tailored in the vast majority of games. (e.g., Mass Effect, sure you have some choices to make, but it's not as if you're the writer, it's just a series of (hopefully) enjoyable story lines that you're choosing between.) You may have control some some extremely minor detail, like "Did he fire six shots or only five?", other than that the creator of any game has immense choice as to what you see, I'm not so sure where someone would get an idea to the contrary. The one thing they can't control is your interpretation of what they've shown you, but that's no different than any other form of art.

[Theodarzna]

It would be interesting to see someone like Cormac McCarthy, author of The Road, Blood Meridian, No Country for Old Men, write for a video game.

In my experience the story is pretty weak in most video games however it's made up for by putting you the consumer in the driver's seat. You aren't living vicariously through the protagonist, you are the protagonist. So I guess what I'm saying is video games are pretty different from written work. Games are still new, media needs time to grow to find artists who want to work with it and I hope I'm around 50 years from now to see what games are like then.

I think as a function of what a game is, Games are poor mediums of exchanging narratives in.

Mainly because you can't control what story the player is experiencing without robbing the player of the core story element. You can produce the same effects as typical narration does, so like HORROR is doable in games, possibly games are Horrors best medium to be experienced in because ultimately fear has more to do with how bits of a narration interact with the user.

But as a straight system of communicating message/narration/whathaveyou_art_terms104 I would say it FUNDAMENTALLY cannot be a means of easily communicating narration. I can't recall were I read it but, art and media are often seen as "Systems of Symbols," by which we interact with the world. Everything is composed of these symbols, and what symbols we see we process into ourselves and it creates an effect within us. We encode these symbols into our minds. Games work differently because the essence of a game is interactivity. Some so-called Games are jokingly called "Walking simulators," which to me cuts to the core of Games as narration tools, which I think they are generally a poor medium of conveying that. Games as a function of what they are are at their core gameplay devices, or I place emphasis at the process of solving the puzzle, not what the creator of the puzzle intended it to mean. Because the interactive nature of the game changes what symbols the player interacts with and encodes into themselves. The meaning of say Link, Mario, Zelda, Bayonetta, Samus, ect on a Symbolic level is defined by the interpretation of the individual interacting with the medium. Not by the medium or narration itself.

Narration is ultimately circumscribed by mechanics and gameplay whose position is paramount.

If that makes sense.

[apepi]

I really don't think there's an inverse correlation between narrative quality and graphics. I hear this sentiment expressed often, but I genuinely believe it's a matter of rose-coloured glasses more often than not. People simply remember the good parts of games of the past, and subconsciously ignore the banality of that same era. I think this phenomenon happens with music every generation as well. YOMV, though.

The more things game developers have to do, the less they have to do for other things. Hence some things get put to the side, I don't think that is unreasonable.

[Anonymous1038853]

I think as a function of what a game is, Games are poor mediums of exchanging narratives in.

Well, it depends largely on what sort of narration you're looking for. I mean, if you reduce the concept of story as the conveyance of a series of events or ideas, then I would argue no artistic medium best supports that goal. Instead, an academic paper would be ideal, clearly laying everything out for the reader in as meticulous and comprehensive a fashion as mandated. But it wouldn't be particularly engaging, or draw out any deep emotions or feelings from its consumer. One title I recently played that was very well-made, was Undertale. Without spoiling the story, I would say that the narrative they're trying to convey simply wouldn't work in any other medium.

The more things game developers have to do, the less they have to do for other things. Hence some things get put to the side, I don't think that is unreasonable.

It depends on a lot of things. But I would note that the people who are responsible for the artistic qualities of the game, are rarely heading other facets of development. Certain facets have diminishing returns, though, and there is no direct link between the visual integrity of a game, and its narrative. If anything, the former contributes to the latter, if things are done properly. Again, YOMV.

[Theodarzna]

Honestly? It used to be pretty good as the games were focused on the stories because they did not have fancy graphics and mechanics, so the games were more story driven. Now games have this fancy graphics and features, so now days stories seem pretty ham fisted.

IMHO this is the opposite of reality. Past games were less about story and more about mechanics because programmers had a LOT less to work with to create interesting gameplay experiences.

Today's games can afford more story elements and more graphical arts because effectively the technology allows for it. Before, games had to be very interesting and addicting to be considered good. Mario was less about its story and more about its punishing difficulty and frustrating gameplay.

Original Zelda was about a very non-linear world of exploration and even its relative lack of story.

[OrcsRLame]

I think games can be great, incredible narrative devices. And gameplay does not limit narration, bad design does. Sometimes, gameplay can enhance narration in profound ways. Take the Dark Souls series for example. Very little of the Dark Souls story is told through exposition and long cutscenes. It's essentially the opposite of a walking simulator, yet its world and story has far more depth and meaning than most games out there and if you take the time to experience that it's amazing.

[Qualia]

I think as a function of what a game is, Games are poor mediums of exchanging narratives in.
...
But as a straight system of communicating message/narration/whathaveyou_art_terms104 I would say it FUNDAMENTALLY cannot be a means of easily communicating narration. I can't recall were I read it but, art and media are often seen as "Systems of Symbols," by which we interact with the world. Everything is composed of these symbols, and what symbols we see we process into ourselves and it creates an effect within us. We encode these symbols into our minds. Games work differently because the essence of a game is interactivity.
...
Narration is ultimately circumscribed by mechanics and gameplay whose position is paramount.

Since it is still a debatable issue on the Internet, do you consider Visual Novels games (technically, they are, but some don't agree)? If you do, I believe they handle the part I quoted in your post quite well due to nature of the genre.