SWTOR - Button Bloat

[Aggrophobic]

Button bloat? We hardly have any buttons left to press. I'd rather they add a few more.

[Tekkommo]

Button bloat? We hardly have any buttons left to press. I'd rather they add a few more.

Looks like we need to mention SWTOR every now and again...

[Imperial]

God no. Keep simplified retard-level rotations out of SWtOR. Assassins are fine. Sorcs are fine. Jugs are fine. Marauders are fine. PTs are fine.

[ZeroWashu]

I would love to be down to two rows max, some classes simply get far too many abilities and even then its a matter of ditching some completely.

now if they would just remove having to return to my trainer to update an ability I would be happier

[Super Kami Dende]

I really hope they don't cut any abilities.

I enjoy all the abilities my Character has and can use them all effectively in each fight. Pruning any would just make the characters feel boring and rotations feel empty as well as making tank classes useless since you basically utilise 95% of all your abilities in every fight as a good tank.

If you want a game with a small amount of abilities go play something like GW2 or WoW.

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I would love to be down to two rows max, some classes simply get far too many abilities and even then its a matter of ditching some completely.

now if they would just remove having to return to my trainer to update an ability I would be happier

I'm able to fit most of my "needed" moves on 2 rows. Seems most the people asking for the pruning are F2P players who can only use 2 rows thus want to remove abilities simply so they can have pointless shit on their bars.

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Of course not.

I just came back to my Sith Marauder and my basic single target rotation has 8 buttons. If I aoe, add 2 more, then I need keybinds for all my cd's as well. When I reach level 57, I have another ability to add to my basic single target rotation.

Yes.

Oh no, you have to press 8 buttons!

Seriously if 8 buttons is too much for you, go play an FPS.

It seems the worst thing about WoD is all these people going to other games and then trying to get them to change it too WoW.

[Faramos69]

2 buttons please, bioware.

[Cempa]

After a certain point the more active abilities added the smaller the amount of fun it adds until it starts reducing fun. Assume we have 100 active abilities, that is clearly not fun and shows that too many is bad...now assume you have 3 buttons, again too few and definitely not fun...

Finding that sweet spot is the challenge BUT luckily we have WoW who just went through the exact same exercise and we have a bench mark!

I mean BW did say 'WoW in space' right?

[Tokas]

why do these other mmo forum posts even exist here? all it does is confuses people

[karumayu]

I think the amount of buttons we have now are at a good balance. There are enough of them for rotations and some are used on situations. However I hope in the future expansions they upgrade / replace abilities instead of adding further on what we have now. I recall some time in the live stream where it was mentioned that they were now capable of replacing skills on our spell book, so we should see a fewer buttons, like mag shot replacing rail shot on your spell book.

If people were wearing aim gear as jedis, then I also think they are capable of keeping both the initial skill and the upgraded skill on their quick bar, then wonder about button bloat.

[Leih]

SWTOR does have a button bloat problem. Worse than WoW did in MoP really. Some classes have a lot of useless and worthless buttons that should really be cleaned up a bit.

Certainly don't think all classes need to be cut down to playing with just 1-2 buttons or something like the hyperbole brigade say but I think some of the clutter could use cleaning up.

For an MMO a base rotation of around maybe 6-7 abilities should be the maximum. Beyond that it just ends up being a bit of a finger twister... especially in a game without proper macros and addon support to the extent that WoW does. Classes can have as many fun and situational abilities as they wish beyond that, but it's important not to clutter and confuse everything with lots of abilities that do the same thing, or abilities that you're just playing wrong if you ever use them in your rotation?

[WarpedAcorn]

It varies from class to class and spec to spec. For a good while I thought the Sentinel/Marauder suffered the most from button bloat because it has a ton of abilities it needs to use to work at max potential...then I played Commando. Honestly Gunnery is just about ridiculous in terms of buttons. At lot of the buttons feel like band-aid fixes for the class that are tacted on. It could honestly use a retooling.

The worst part about Commando are all the utility abilities. There is a Recharge ability to instantly replenish Ammo, there is one to make the next ability activate instantly, and there is one that makes the next ability cost no Ammo to cast. In my opinion those need to be combined into 1. Then you have things like their AoE which is bloated to include an Instant Cast Grenade, a Short-Cast DoT Grenade, a Targeted Channeled AoE, and more powerful Targeted Channeled AoE. Those could be condensed as well.

Sage/Sorcerer and Operative/Scoundrel are the only classes I haven't played with max abilities, but based on all the rest of the classes I have, Commando suffers from button bloat the worst.

[Tekkommo]

Started playing my Merc BH again, at level 57 their rotation seems in a good place.

It's just the playstyle of Sith Marauder is terrible, far too many abilities and none of them doing anything special really, all you are really doing is hitting 8-9 abilities when they come off cd. Very boring, they should merge some of those abilities together and reduce the cd.

[Leih]

The worst part about Commando are all the utility abilities. There is a Recharge ability to instantly replenish Ammo, there is one to make the next ability activate instantly, and there is one that makes the next ability cost no Ammo to cast. In my opinion those need to be combined into 1. Then you have things like their AoE which is bloated to include an Instant Cast Grenade, a Short-Cast DoT Grenade, a Targeted Channeled AoE, and more powerful Targeted Channeled AoE. Those could be condensed as well.

This is a really good example of the kind of thing that could do a with a little tweaking. Having to use like 3 keybindings for 3 abilities that essentially achieve the same purpose is a bit of a frustration.

Two CCs that do the exact same but affect different targets isn't good gameplay it's just bloat. 3 cooldowns which do the same thing in different ways is just pure bloat... either have one ability that has a shorter cooldown or merge all 3 into one super cooldown with a long cooldown.

[WarpedAcorn]

Two CCs that do the exact same but affect different targets isn't good gameplay it's just bloat. 3 cooldowns which do the same thing in different ways is just pure bloat... either have one ability that has a shorter cooldown or merge all 3 into one super cooldown with a long cooldown.

Regarding the CC thing, I'm actually ok with this. One is a Stun and the other is a long-lasting Mez (PvE anyways), so they do serve different functions. It gets more complicated with something like the Shadow/Assassin who has the Stun, the long-lasting Mez, and a Sap. In fact Shadow/Assassin has a few abilities that are only usable in Stealth that COULD be cleaned up by having a "Stealth Bar" that pops up when you go into Stealth like every other MMO. I would think the foundation to do this is there since they have a Cover Bar that pops up for Smuggler Classes when they go into cover.

[Tekkommo]

This is a really good example of the kind of thing that could do a with a little tweaking. Having to use like 3 keybindings for 3 abilities that essentially achieve the same purpose is a bit of a frustration.

Two CCs that do the exact same but affect different targets isn't good gameplay it's just bloat. 3 cooldowns which do the same thing in different ways is just pure bloat... either have one ability that has a shorter cooldown or merge all 3 into one super cooldown with a long cooldown.

I agree with the abilities that makes the next cast instant and cost no ammo, on my BH I push them at the same time, if I could make a macro I would... but the base of this game is a mess so you can't have a world with macros and addons. The one that replenishes ammo should stay separate.

[Okacz]

One thing that annoys me about this game is that when I come back to it, my characters have ridiculous rotations and I need to use lots of keybinds just for my basic rotation.

Is there any plan to address this in the new expansion, or I am just going to unlock more abilities to add to my rotation?

Let's take a look at MM hunter rotation, for example.

Nope, you don't need to use lots of keybinds for your basic rotation. Basic rotation is max 5 buttons now.

Using any more means that you are actively trying to be as good at the game as possible, and you deliberately choose to keep more buttons and create more keybinds to max your potential. Don't blame Blizzard for your own choice.

[Leih]

Let's take a look at MM hunter rotation, for example.

Nope, you don't need to use lots of keybinds for your basic rotation. Basic rotation is max 5 buttons now.

Using any more means that you are actively trying to be as good at the game as possible, and you deliberately choose to keep more buttons and create more keybinds to max your potential. Don't blame Blizzard for your own choice.

Wrong game

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Regarding the CC thing, I'm actually ok with this. One is a Stun and the other is a long-lasting Mez (PvE anyways), so they do serve different functions. It gets more complicated with something like the Shadow/Assassin who has the Stun, the long-lasting Mez, and a Sap. In fact Shadow/Assassin has a few abilities that are only usable in Stealth that COULD be cleaned up by having a "Stealth Bar" that pops up when you go into Stealth like every other MMO. I would think the foundation to do this is there since they have a Cover Bar that pops up for Smuggler Classes when they go into cover.

A stealth bar would be awesome. I really have no idea why this isn't in the game when, like you say, there is a cover bar already.

[Deleted]

my advice is to go back to your crappy mobas if you find a few extra buttons too much for you

[xuros]

The only dps class with a ton of buttons that I know of is the Marauder and whatever the jedi version is. Most others there are maybe 6-9 or so. Not all that bad.

[WarpedAcorn]

my advice is to go back to your crappy mobas if you find a few extra buttons too much for you

Aw man, can't even go back to the good mobas...gotta go back to the crappy ones. Shucks... *dejectedly kicks rock*