Unholy Trinkets 6.2.3?

[Clayney0]

Don't mind this comment, wrong Thread.

[Raikh]

Actually not quite sure about vial staying BiS. Problem is we get even more MS, which itself pretty cool, but I'm sure we will overcap qith Vial devaluing it and then all the other trinkets get 10 Ilvl and, yeah thats a huge power difference. Having MWF trinkets with 600ish strength is huge alone. EDH is also not sooooo far off for ST in sims.
But then again 10ilvl more + 795 ilvl and the sub 1min reaver kills will roll in, so if you want to maximize for ridiculous kill speeds vial might stay.

Only problem is really that we will gain comparatively little power. We don't scale well with weapon damage, MS is already pretty high so it won't stay super strong compared to the other stats. NP will also completely die if you don't AoE pad since it gets comparatively weaker the more MS you have for sustained AoE because of necrosis procs from BB and the icnreased power on the whole raid won't surely help getting into sustained AoE at all.

In the end its just a glorious way to completey roflstomp all bosses in HFC anyway. The 5 ilvl in BRF already listed 10%+ dmg increases, so, yeah in combination with the still upgrading ring and possbly super strong heirloom trinkets this raid will be ended very brutally and full of wonderfully exploding bosses.

[Deleted]

@Raikh, i simmed all the trinkets (except the new heirloom one) with +10 ilvl on all slots of gear and max ring. a non-procced Vial is still 5-6k ahead of warforged EDH (746) and 5k ahead of warforged Pebble. Also, mastery has a higher value than multistrike at these gear levels, when using Vial. (1min fight length), obviously iron reaver will die within 30-40 seconds, so it's most likely gonna be mastery enchants we will roll with, come 30s kills. (since basically 70% vial uptime)

[Raikh]

@Raikh

I don't quite see how we're going to be able to get to 70% multistrike. You, for example, have quite a lot of multistrike on your character sheet (3500) or ~53% multistrike. 10 ilevels will not give 1000 multistrike rating - though this could be an issue for Blood.

Well its 60% with food and raidbuffs for mebut, yeah, even if we can cap, which should definitely be possible with a bunch of socket/wf items it will be a close deal. Didn't check the numbers beforehand and somehow assumed M vial was more than 32%.

Blood doesn't use vial as far as I remember and generally getting more MS as blood will greatly benefit BoS uptime.


@Andreas7074
Well for 1min fights sure, initial thought was for longer fights, basically for the standard 450 sec profile and there I have not seen a 5k difference even with current ilvls last time i did a trinket comparison. Maybe even on 3min fight edh might turn out a little stronger, maybe they are even. I don't think its a huge deal in either direction (which is incredibly sad btw) but I would be astonished if vial would keep the #1 spot against trinkets 40 ilvl above in a sustained dps scenario. Question is ofcourse also if there are fights which still last 3min where cleave is not involved as EDH is icnredibly bad for unholy in cleave situations, which I doubt, so its more of a theoretical thing than a practical, don't see us using EDH because its plain bad for unholy.

That mastery will overtake MS is interesting, not so surprised as I've seen mastery's value rising constantly (comparatively) the more MS I got as those stats synergize well with each other and for what situations that is asbolutely true. For 1 min fights you will obviously have much higher mastery values than for a longer fight, due to sitting at or close to 100% MS where MS value is diminished quite a bit and mastery being a higher dmg gain for BoS and gargoyle to begin with.

[Deleted]

Exactly. EDH will be a close to Vial, theoretically, on longer fights. Thing is; half the fights will be over in less than 1 minute.
For the maximum theoretical DPS on literally every fight, I think the Heirloom + UeH is the way to go.

[Sunnydee]

Exactly. EDH will be a close to Vial, theoretically, on longer fights. Thing is; half the fights will be over in less than 1 minute.
For the maximum theoretical DPS on literally every fight, I think the Heirloom + UeH is the way to go.

So i went on PTR and tried this on dummy with breath, i prob should of written numbers down but it seems like you benefit from the new heirloom trinket if you only use ring once, after that point you have more use of vial, RPPM on the war horn seems really long (14% uptime on 5min fight).


also for future reference, the trinket works in HFC, and the bonus dmg to demons works as well.

[Deleted]

That was my first thought as well. On all 1-breath fights, the heirloom trinket should pull ahead, with 2-breath fights favoring vial, UNLESS you get a proc on 2min with the warhorn. For nuts ranking purposes, I will be using warhorn on all fights, I think.

[shadowslayerdragon]

Is it not a bit far fetched to assume ''most'' fights will go under the 1 min mark? As of now, the fastest kill in HFC is reaver at 91 sec. Not saying ure wrong, as i have no idea how big 10 ilvls will be with the ring and all that, just genuinely curious

[Raikh]

Only fight I see going below 1 minute is reaver. I dunno if you can just drop to 1 healer for fights like Zakuun and then make one minute somehow work with a full ring and fully upgraded gear but especially fights which last now 5min+ should at best drop to around 2-3 minutes depending on mechanics and setup possibilities. Kormrok might also be a candidate for 1min kills with reaver and Zakuun but beyond that its hard to imagine as there are either mechanics effectively stopping you from annihilating the boss instantly like Iskar, Socrethar, kilrogg or gorefiend. Kilrogg and gorefiend will simply evaporate after the dmg buffs come up but thats 2/3 mins into the fight.

10 lvl should sit between a 20 and 30% dps increase assuming we have no sudden drop offs along the way due to some trinkets hardcapping or dropping priorities to a initially lower value secondary stat along the way.
Now the ring has still a few ilvls to go (can the leg ring be upgraded, too? don't assume so but didn't check) and people will also get wf and socket item upgrades and at last you will be able to drop one or multiple healers due to the faster kills and higher powerlevel, leading to even faster kills.
Faster kills lead to higher burst impact, bl uptime and so on which might make the 10 ilvls even more valuable depending how the increased stats synergize with your CDs/BL/pot so double the raid dps after ring is maxed out and the whole raid has their upgrades sounds pretty plausible, depending on dps lineup, dropping healers or not it might be even more or might also be less.

[Deleted]

Whenever I see the word plausible I want to ask myth busters.

Capping ms aside, shorter fight lengths suggest to me that vial becomes more valuable for bos burst on pull. I should go run a few simc tests with 2 or 3 mins as options.

Not exactly scientific but it seems as i reduce the fight length from 3 mins to 2 mins....crit goes over weapon damage and second only to multistrike. Weird.

[Deleted]

It's not relevant whether it's a 1min fight or not. It's relevant if you get 2 vials usages or not.

If you don't get two, Vial will fall behind, and the heirloom trinket will be ahead.
Why? because of 2 reasons: devaluation in multistrike w/ vial equipped, and (potentially) double proccing the heirloom trinket with a DC on pull on kormrok + iron reaver, getting effectively 30s uptime on pull.

Fights to look into:
Iron Reaver
Kormrok
Council
Zakuun
Xhul
Socrethar

[Beefkow]

Will RH actually have a chance to be viable on any fights in HFC?

At least with mythic RH warforged, (which will never happen) and upgraded, will RH finally be viable?

[Deleted]

Will RH actually have a chance to be viable on any fights in HFC?

At least with mythic RH warforged, (which will never happen) and upgraded, will RH finally be viable?

can't imagine, no.

[lilgayatlas]

Will RH actually have a chance to be viable on any fights in HFC?

At least with mythic RH warforged, (which will never happen) and upgraded, will RH finally be viable?

You'll barely even want to use NP at all post-upgrades for almost the entire raid, and the only fights you would play it would die in 2-3 minutes.

[Lyon]

So I'm gonna have to get my hands on a Mythic Vial to stay competitive with my raid?

[Deleted]

So I'm gonna have to get my hands on a Mythic Vial to stay competitive with my raid?

That would be correct.

[Zeals]

Did they fix UeH? Spam DG on bosses aren't providing stacks :/

[Deleted]

Did they fix UeH? Spam DG on bosses aren't providing stacks :/

Correct. It's been fixed. Only thing working is interrupting now.

[Clayney0]

Correct. It's been fixed. Only thing working is interrupting now.

So we got shadownerfed again

[Khiyone]

So we got shadownerfed again

It was a minute gain.