Protection legion Discussion

[Deleted]

I've been regularily checking this thread for a while now, and I've either missed it in here (or in another important announcement), so excuse me if it's already been asked/answered.

Does RPDT include "partial" rage in some way? I.e.: Getting the same rage when being hit 50 x 0.5 % HP within 3 seconds as opposed to getting a single swing knocking off 25% of your HP at once?

Iirc, damage taken is damage taken.
Wether this is a single blow dealing 25% or DoT based dealing 25% over a few seconds, you should receive the same amount based on the calculation.
However the rage should spread out based on the ticks of damage it deals.

[Deleted]

Iirc, damage taken is damage taken.
Wether this is a single blow dealing 25% or DoT based dealing 25% over a few seconds, you should receive the same amount based on the calculation.
However the rage should spread out based on the ticks of damage it deals.

Thanks for the clarification. That was my main concern with RPDT, otherwise I am actually in favor of this system (Gamplay-wise as a singled out case; I won't make any statements about balance among tanks in general, or scaling with gear. It's just that I enjoy the mechanic personally)

[Deleted]

Thanks for the clarification. That was my main concern with RPDT, otherwise I am actually in favor of this system (Gamplay-wise as a singled out case; I won't make any statements about balance among tanks in general, or scaling with gear. It's just that I enjoy the mechanic personally)

I'm in with you on this, even though it's inferior on how prot currently works, it's just something niche and unique.

[Deleted]

Iirc, damage taken is damage taken.
Wether this is a single blow dealing 25% or DoT based dealing 25% over a few seconds, you should receive the same amount based on the calculation.
However the rage should spread out based on the ticks of damage it deals.

Well, it might be a bit more complicated. Getting Rage from one big hit can (and will very probably) get you more rage despite what the formula shows.

This is because Rage always come in whole units -- you can't get 0.5 Rage for example (unless, that has been updated/changed).

This means that if your DoT is ticking for 4.9% of your HP for example, the .9% bit will not result in any Rage gain until the next tick. Problem is if for example you get healed up before that next tick, the Rage gain you could have gotten from the .9% drop in hp will be simply lost.

With big hits, the net loss resulting from this behaviour is naturally much smaller than with smaller hits (i.g.: DoT's). So, one should indeed expect to get significantly less Rage from DoT's than from melee attacks.

- - - Updated - - -

Unless, of course, dev's also thought of this and added some internal correction I'm not aware of. But for obvious reasons, I doubt that.

[Agromat]

Making the rage formula remember damage from previous hits that wasn't high enough to give you a full rage point would be as simple as making the rage variable a float instead of an int.

Anyone on the PTR could test this by going to a low level zone, letting weak monsters (who hit for less than 2% of your health) beat on you for a while, and seeing if you gain any rage at all.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the clarification. That was my main concern with RPDT, otherwise I am actually in favor of this system (Gamplay-wise as a singled out case; I won't make any statements about balance among tanks in general, or scaling with gear. It's just that I enjoy the mechanic personally)

oh i'm sure a lot of people like or can at least appreciate the idea behind it. it does make sense for a tanks resources to involve takind/avoiding damage.

it's just that in gameplay it never quite works out.

[FluFF]

Haven't touched my warrior since MoP and just did a prot setup on Beta, but is it me or is there no real use for Focused Rage ?
Unless I'm missing something it just seems to drain away 30 rage that I could have spend on IP or SB and all I would lose is extra damage on shield slam.

I put it on my bars but can't see when I would press it to favour the 30 rage on shield slam damage instead of on IP or something, and never seen Slootbag use it neither when he did a bunch of mythic+ runs last Saturday.
I could be completely mistaken cause I'm no warrior main or not even played it in like 2 years so if I'm wrong then I gladly hear it

[Invrlose]

Why were so many people complaining about ignore pain? I've played on the PTR now very briefly, and from what I've gathered ignore pain will be used almost the same way we use shield barrier today. It's practically a shield barrier that lets 10% of the damage through.

[Beardyface]

Why were so many people complaining about ignore pain? I've played on the PTR now very briefly, and from what I've gathered ignore pain will be used almost the same way we use shield barrier today. It's practically a shield barrier that lets 10% of the damage through.

I like Ignore Pain personally. Can't remember a ton of complaints about the ability itself. The major issues are that it used to scale with Stamina (which gave it more synergy with some of our other spells and talents) and now it scales with Attack Power, which we have no control over. The formula behind the way it caps (at 2 casts) is also weird.

Most all of the complaints are about the re-introduction of Rage from Damage Taken. Again, not a terrible idea overall, but the implementation and formula used to calculate it is very poor, and raises concerns about our scalability within raid tiers.

[Canield]

Why were so many people complaining about ignore pain? I've played on the PTR now very briefly, and from what I've gathered ignore pain will be used almost the same way we use shield barrier today. It's practically a shield barrier that lets 10% of the damage through.

Sort of yes and no. Shield Block is 10 rage now. Shield barrier/shield block was more of a choice. Ignore pain will be the main mitigation.

[Deleted]

Well, it might be a bit more complicated. Getting Rage from one big hit can (and will very probably) get you more rage despite what the formula shows.

This is because Rage always come in whole units -- you can't get 0.5 Rage for example (unless, that has been updated/changed).

This means that if your DoT is ticking for 4.9% of your HP for example, the .9% bit will not result in any Rage gain until the next tick. Problem is if for example you get healed up before that next tick, the Rage gain you could have gotten from the .9% drop in hp will be simply lost.

With big hits, the net loss resulting from this behaviour is naturally much smaller than with smaller hits (i.g.: DoT's). So, one should indeed expect to get significantly less Rage from DoT's than from melee attacks.

- - - Updated - - -

Unless, of course, dev's also thought of this and added some internal correction I'm not aware of. But for obvious reasons, I doubt that.

This is what I'm really worried about (could be especially apparent in the case of tanking swarms of mobs). I'll try to get a handle on it on the PTR when I can get a little time free on my schedule

[Invrlose]

Sort of yes and no. Shield Block is 10 rage now. Shield barrier/shield block was more of a choice. Ignore pain will be the main mitigation.

But lots of people were saying things like "wtf this spell is too complicated" etc etc. It literally just functions as a shield barrier that lets 10% of the damage through.

[Deleted]

But lots of people were saying things like "wtf this spell is too complicated" etc etc. It literally just functions as a shield barrier that lets 10% of the damage through.

Hmm, i haven't seen people who say it's too complicated.
But there was a change in the barrier calculation (instead of health it uses AP now). Most people disliked this change due to talents being less impactfull.

[Deleted]

Right. Looking at the damage patterns in yesterday's raid tests, some logs from the raid tests on the 17th and my Skada on PTR... Inspiring Presence, oh Inspiring Presence.
Here's my suggestion: could they at least make this a 'raid cooldown' in the spirit Aegis of Light and Darkness? 8-10 sec buff that gives a relevant amount of leech healing, something in the range of 10-25% (or whatever they feel is balanced).

The way it's set up currently is mostly just overhealing and meter-padding. It heals everyone, yet noone specifically, all the time, yet not when needed. If they'd just buff the passive leech % as is, it's going to be difficult to balance it to be meaningful but not mandatory. Basically the way iPresence currently applies is overpowered as fuck, but the amount it heals (per second) is then undercompensated to be almost meaningless.

[Breccia]

Why were so many people complaining about ignore pain? I've played on the PTR now very briefly, and from what I've gathered ignore pain will be used almost the same way we use shield barrier today. It's practically a shield barrier that lets 10% of the damage through.

First of all, the bolded part answers your own question.

Secondly, the issue with IP is mostly its AP scaling. Based on the last few expansions, AP does not grow at the same rate as max health. Basing IP off that means we'll get worse and worse shields, as compared to the content current at the time. Unless there are specific changes to alter that (bad) or we game the system with AP trinkets (worse).

Warriors are always concerned with scaling. It has never worked for us, always being off in one direction or the other.

[Agromat]

I've been regularily checking this thread for a while now, and I've either missed it in here (or in another important announcement), so excuse me if it's already been asked/answered.

Does RPDT include "partial" rage in some way? I.e.: Getting the same rage when being hit 50 x 0.5 % HP within 3 seconds as opposed to getting a single swing knocking off 25% of your HP at once?

I tested this on the PTR this morning. Warriors do gain fractional rage from attacks - if we take less damage than is necessary to give us a rage point, it counts toward the next point we would gain, so we still gain full rage from low damage attacks. However, if the fraction falls below a very low threshold, we don't gain even partial rage from it.

I walked outside my garrison and got in a fight with a bunch of mobs that dealt about 0.1% of my health per hit. After letting them beat on me for a while, I was down to about 70% of my health and had gained 0 rage.





I then fought some mobs that dealt about 0.5% of my health with each attack. After falling to about 70% of my health, I'd gained 15 rage.



So unless we're taking really trivial damage, we appear to gain full rage from attacks that don't deal enough damage on their own to grant us a rage point. Here's a link to the Imgur album with the above test images.

[Beardyface]

I tested this on the PTR this morning. Warriors do gain fractional rage from attacks - if we take less damage than is necessary to give us a rage point, it counts toward the next point we would gain, so we still gain full rage from low damage attacks. However, if the fraction falls below a very low threshold, we don't gain even partial rage from it.

I walked outside my garrison and got in a fight with a bunch of mobs that dealt about 0.1% of my health per hit. After letting them beat on me for a while, I was down to about 70% of my health and had gained 0 rage.





I then fought some mobs that dealt about 0.5% of my health with each attack. After falling to about 70% of my health, I'd gained 15 rage.



So unless we're taking really trivial damage, we appear to gain full rage from attacks that don't deal enough damage on their own to grant us a rage point. Here's a link to the Imgur album with the above test images.

This makes me think that you have a certain time window in which those percentage points have to add up into a whole point before they just vanish. Would be a good question for the Theorycrafting thread, though I'm not sure they're still trying to answer everything there:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743504316

[Deleted]

Hmmm, I've checked the rage gains on the combat log and there appears to be fractual gains.



I've gained a slow but consistent amount of rage across the fight (The breakpoint for a full point of rage would be approximately 9648 (2% of 482400). The "gained 0 Rage" messages suggest that there are fractual rage gains that are cut off after the decimal point. Pure speculation on my part though.

[Panzerjager]

Does somebody know if you can stack relics on one trait in your Artifact weapon? I've been searching for this information from the forums.

[Beardyface]

Something else I didn't realize: Versatility does not increase your attack power, only your damage done (it works this way on live, too). Meaning Versatility does not increase the size of your Ignore Pain.

Fun