[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Bonfiggy]

I'm a fan of feral, as its my offspec and I think its a reasonable classic bearcatty thing to play.

Wonder how viable bearresto is though since yseras gift is a tempting offer.

I was wondering the same - how big of a heal will it be, and is it worth giving up 15% move speed and extra dps while not tanking for?

Well there are no glyphs any more so unless faerie fire would have had silence in it by default, that's an unfortunate end unfortunately.

Mayhaps we'll just rely on skull bash as we ever do?

Glyphs still exist - but ONLY in the minor variety to modify spells. I'm sure a minor glyph will exist to augment FF to silence if we still have it.

[Milune the Bear]

I like most of the Guardian changes announced! Very glad for a mechanic to actually mitigate magic damage. Wish there was a way to opt out of the "being forced into an offspec"-thing since I've played no other spec than Bear since Karazhan. Bearcatting in Cataclysm was doable, and hopefully I'll avoid annoying things like Blood Talons (or any dot snapshotting) as feral affinity and eclipse mechanic as moonkin affinity. Although I think they're removing the eclipse bar now.. I hope I'll survive. #RIPOneSpecWonder

[Dreyen]

On another note, not sure i see the point of lacerate stacking to 3 anymore especially since thrash applies lacerate... no point in tab targeting (Never liked it personally)...

Now that I think of it, maybe thrash won't be strong enough to be used in the single target rotation actually

[Jellospally]

On another note, not sure i see the point of lacerate stacking to 3 anymore especially since thrash applies lacerate... no point in tab targeting (Never liked it personally)...

Now that I think of it, maybe thrash won't be strong enough to be used in the single target rotation actually

Thrash will not be used in single target(after getting 3 stacks on the mob). Moonfire fills that void.

Thrash will be used on 2+ target on CD. Mangle on CD, Moonfire everything and if you have nothing else to do you Lacerate.

[trifrost]

Thrash will not be used in single target. Moonfire fills that void.

Thrash will be used on 2+ target on CD. Mangle on CD, Moonfire everything and if you have nothing else to do you Lacerate.

I guess you could use Thrash at start of fight to get to 3 stack lacerate faster? Lacerate -> Thrash -> Lacerate to get in 3 stack fast instead of the usual lacerate->moonfire rotation which will take 9sec to get to 3 stack lacerate.

[ikewu83]

I was watching the finalboss interview with a developer and a question was asked about animation/visual interaction with casters and their artifact weapons as some classes use daggers etc and they might not be shown that much. The developer then mentioned that there might some animations that tie in and then went further and mentioned that they are looking at investigating doing something with the guardian artifact besides changing our form.



Whilst we knew that our form was going to change I havent seen any other mention of something like this happening until that interview so thought it was quite interesting.

Original Question - https://youtu.be/qpAYPI-g75g?t=10m20s

Guardian Point about seeing weapons - https://youtu.be/qpAYPI-g75g?t=11m43s

It's cool, I want to see the weapon, I use toy all the time after I got the M Manno Staff

[Dreyen]

Thrash will not be used in single target(after getting 3 stacks on the mob). Moonfire fills that void.

Thrash will be used on 2+ target on CD. Mangle on CD, Moonfire everything and if you have nothing else to do you Lacerate.

Sadly mangle and lacerate both have survival benefits, moonfire is just pure dps.. lacerate can reset mangle's cd. wish moonfire did something for survival, even if it's just reseting mangle's cd.

Edit: NM... noticed lacerate has a 3sec cd. So we're back to Cata where we just alternate buttons everytime: Mangle > Lacerate > Moonfire > Lacerate, repeat forever.

[Roshar]

These guardian changes.

[Mandibleclaw]

Legion can't come fast enough! The new model will sub me back for sure, after I had to give up my bear at WoD for the first time in 6 years, then ending completely unsubbed cz of 1- I hate not being a guardian 2- WoD is bad.

[Rioo]

6sec cd on thrash.. hopefully we get swipe back, having an aoe ability available for every GCD is definitely one of the things i love about guardian... though i do admit i didnt like spamming only thrash.

I'm hoping for a talent that either gives us swipe or reduces the CD of thrash. Nice to pick up on add fights, but not a mush-have on every boss.

[Sonnillon]

I am wondering how well our mastery would work at lower gear levels... If I didn't misunderstood, then the heal and HP will be bigger the more master we have from gear... But given how "bad" survival vise guardians were at the start of expansion with lower-end gear, then I am bit concerned that it could happen again in Legion. But maybe I could be too negative about it.

[xskarma]

Edit: NM... noticed lacerate has a 3sec cd. So we're back to Cata where we just alternate buttons everytime: Mangle > Lacerate > Moonfire > Lacerate, repeat forever.

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of this cooldown on Lacerate. Will have to see how it works in practice but the fact I only have Moonfire as a spammable button is not something I like.

[Raiju]

I am wondering how well our mastery would work at lower gear levels... If I didn't misunderstood, then the heal and HP will be bigger the more master we have from gear... But given how "bad" survival vise guardians were at the start of expansion with lower-end gear, then I am bit concerned that it could happen again in Legion. But maybe I could be too negative about it.

dat active mitigation will keep you alive, practically ignoring 25-30% of damage taken (more if you time it well) before your armour / larger hp pool. Even then you're going to be 25+% realistically in base gear, if 40% is in raid gear.

[Mandibleclaw]

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of this cooldown on Lacerate. Will have to see how it works in practice but the fact I only have Moonfire as a spammable button is not something I like.

I don't think you will be spamming moonfire.. I think the rage dump ability will be Maul. I think Moonfire will replace the FFF, and is used for range pulls same as FF was used and not as a filler.

[Nami69]

I don't think you will be spamming moonfire.. I think the rage dump ability will be Maul. I think Moonfire will replace the FFF, and is used for range pulls same as FF was used and not as a filler.

Mangle only gives 5 rage now and there's nothing to say bleeds still give rage so we'll probably get that dumb change warriors got were we have to take damage to gain rage, going to be rage starved when not tanking probably so rip using maul if it's still there...

[Mandibleclaw]

Mangle only gives 5 rage now and there's nothing to say bleeds still give rage so we'll probably get that dumb change warriors got were we have to take damage to gain rage, going to be rage starved when not tanking probably so rip using maul if it's still there...

@WarcraftDevs 11hours ago
@Frogpoison Maul is only used to turn excess Rage into damage when not tanking, so it wasn't listed in the blog. It's still available.

[xskarma]

@WarcraftDevs 11hours ago
@Frogpoison Maul is only used to turn excess Rage into damage when not tanking, so it wasn't listed in the blog. It's still available.

We get that. We're just saying you won't have the rage to use it, possibly.

If you happen to mistime your trash and miss 1 or 2 mobs you want to AoE you basically have limited options. Can't just Lacerate spam on them to get them on you. So, Moonfire is it (assuming you need rage for mitigation).

We'll see though. It's not even beta, and even then it;s a long road to release. I'm sure we'll get rage generation and dumping fixed in a way that works for most players.

[Mandibleclaw]

We get that. We're just saying you won't have the rage to use it, possibly.

If you happen to mistime your trash and miss 1 or 2 mobs you want to AoE you basically have limited options. Can't just Lacerate spam on them to get them on you. So, Moonfire is it (assuming you need rage for mitigation).

We'll see though. It's not even beta, and even then it;s a long road to release. I'm sure we'll get rage generation and dumping fixed in a way that works for most players.

In that I basically replied to the "using maul if it's still there..." part, confirming to him that it is, and showing that the devs intentions are for it to be the rage dump ability meaning that it rather won't be the moonfire spam as it is being speculated right now and that the numbers and abilities will be tuned/developed around this concept imo. We don't have enough to speculate anyway yet, because as maul is there and not mentioned in the blog, swipe could be there too. And moonfire's initial damage isn't really strong enough to pull the mobs to you as it deals minor initial damage.

[xskarma]

In that I basically replied to the "using maul if it's still there..." part, confirming to him that it is, and showing that the devs intentions are for it to be the rage dump ability meaning that it rather won't be the moonfire spam as it is being speculated right now and that the numbers and abilities will be tuned/developed around this concept imo. We don't have enough to speculate anyway yet, because as maul is there and not mentioned in the blog, swipe could be there too. And moonfire's initial damage isn't really strong enough to pull the mobs to you as it deals minor initial damage.

No, true, there's lots to still be discovered. I think Moonfire should be okay as ranged pull though. With our extra threat generation it should be no different then pulling with Faerie Fire. (Unless DPS are being idiots, which is always a possibility)

[Yxiomel]

Maul is somewhat moot, since its off the GCD.
With the core abilities as given, you will be spamming moonfire a fair amount, or sitting on empty GCDs (so you may as well moonfire) unless Thrash has an initial damage component that is higher than the initial damage component on Moonfire.

With 6s on mangle, 3s on lacerate, you would have to do:
Mangle -> Lacerate -> Moonfire -> Lacerate -> Mangle -> Lacerate -> (so you've set up your DoTs and mangled on CD, you might slow down DoT setup if lacerate procs)

Then you would do:
* [M] -> Lacerate -> (go back to *)
where [M] is Mangle if the previous Lacerate procs, or if the last [M] wasn't Mangle (so its come off its natural CD), and is Moonfire otherwise.

This means a lot of Moonfire refreshing for the initial damage even though the DoT isn't even close to expiring. If Thrash does do more upfront damage, it will be the same, but replacing Moonfire with Thrash and needlessly refreshing lacerate (how unusual...) and having to monitor Moonfire to refresh it on time. THis would be slightly more interesting, I guess, but still doesn't seem all that great to me. I just hope there is something to spice it up in the talents.