Legion - Assassination Discussion

[kimmiegee3]

love this thread

[Deleted]

Hmm. So what is the consensus with Mr Robot and Simcraft at the moment?

I got the Urn from Nightbane yesterday (and a lower Eye of Command) and tried two thing:
Stacking Mastery with the Urn/Command and MP, or going Crit with Command/Memento and EP.


Robot and Simcraft have very different results.

Mr. Robot:
457k with Command/Memento and Crit/EP
426k with Command/Urn and Mastery/MP

Simcraft:
414k with Command/Memento and Crit/EP
412k with Command/Urn and Mastery/MP

I have about 138% Mastery with Urn and Mastery Gems/Enchants.
MP gave about 2.6 more on AP, so 'close' to the 15% of EP but with a higher uptime in the end.
Simcraft difference seems more believable, or what do you guys think?

Beside of that: Why is there such a huge difference between the two tools? Any idea what is more accurate?
Looking at my recent logs I would say Simcraft.

[iky43210]

Was looking at parses for top EP/AP rogues, their EP up time was only 77%. Isn't that awfully low?

Doesn't look like they are doing 1mut-> envenom. Are they doing 4+ combo envenom and is that better with high mastery gear?

[Adus]

77% sounds pretty good? 100% isn't exactly possible if that's what you're looking for. i think i tend to manage 80ish percent when i do well. above that sounds kinda ridiculous.

[iky43210]

77% sounds pretty good? 100% isn't exactly possible if that's what you're looking for. i think i tend to manage 80ish percent when i do well. above that sounds kinda ridiculous.

100% is impossible but you could prob do 90%+ if you really want EP to be up. I guess waiting for 4+ combo envenom is better?

[imRawn]

Right now I am running 3 Vendetta relics, 850, 860 and 845 respectively . For raids I know they are BiS where boss last more than 1 Vendetta, but due to work I can no longer raid as much as I want too. On the other hand I do spam a lot of mythic+ usually around the 7-9 range. I can usually squeeze in 2 Vendettas during bosses in 7-9 fights with the vendetta relics, but the 2nd vendetta is usually at >20% when the boss is practically dead.

In my bags I do have two Gushing Wounds relics (increased rupture damage) 875 and 835 and one serrated blade (increased crit of rupture) at 865. Is it worth while switching out the Vendetta runes for the ruptures for mythic+ runs if I don't raid? I obviously plan to run 10+ as my gear would allow it, would Vendetta runes shine more there?

Sorry if I have any English/grammar mistakes, English is hard.

[Adus]

100% is impossible but you could prob do 90%+ if you really want EP to be up. I guess waiting for 4+ combo envenom is better?

have you actually tried to maintain 90% on an actual boss fight? because i'd wager it's harder than you think it is. typically when mine falls off is when i have to do a garrote refresh with no cp and don't want to follow up with a 1cp envenom. plus even the patchwerk fights in this tier like ursoc and maybe nythendra have instances where you have to move away for longer than 5 seconds.

[Deleted]

100% is impossible but you could prob do 90%+ if you really want EP to be up. I guess waiting for 4+ combo envenom is better?

For such a high uptime you must use nearly any finisher (incl rupture) inside the 4.5sec time frame. This requires a lot of low cp finishers which also reduces the effectiveness of SoT and, if you are playing with dp, reduces the uptime of envenom.

For optimal rotation you need very high crit and a little bit haste to get as much 4-5-6 cp finishers in the 4.5 time frame.

The "4.5sec rule" is working for any assa spec you can play, since you must maximize the effectiveness of minimum 1 debuff/buff, not only ep.

[Deleted]

Ideal opener for EP/AP? Switching from EP/Exsang.

Is it something like:

(Stealth)>Garrote>1cp Rupture>Mutilate to 6cp>Vendetta>Vanish>Rupture>Kingsbane>Mutilate...?

Having trouble finding much on the EP/AP opener. If I'm way off, my bad. Thanks for any help.

Stealth > Garrote > Rupture > Kingsbane > >Vendetta > mutilate (once or twice) > vanish > rupture


Kingsbane gives you 1 cp (2 cp on crit) and vendetta gives you full energy when used so you can quickly get off one or two mutilate which will be enough to get you to 6 cp for the vanish > rupture.
after that you just keep using mutilate and cast envenom asap (1-3 cp) while vendetta is running. (ofc you keep garrote up too)

[Deleted]

Stealth > Garrote > Rupture > Kingsbane > >Vendetta > mutilate (once or twice) > vanish > rupture


Kingsbane gives you 1 cp (2 cp on crit) and vendetta gives you full energy when used so you can quickly get off one or two mutilate which will be enough to get you to 6 cp for the vanish > rupture.
after that you just keep using mutilate and cast envenom asap (1-3 cp) while vendetta is running. (ofc you keep garrote up too)

You waste the Kingsbane that way. It's way better to combine it with envenom to fully utilize it's damage. I found this opening way better:
Steath > Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture (to benefit from it's full pandemic) > Mutilate > Vendetta > Mutilate > Vanish > Rupture > Kingsbane > Envenom

[upliftin]

You waste the Kingsbane that way. It's way better to combine it with envenom to fully utilize it's damage. I found this opening way better:
Steath > Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture (to benefit from it's full pandemic) > Mutilate > Vendetta > Mutilate > Vanish > Rupture > Kingsbane > Envenom

Are we not supposed to use Envenom then Kingsbane ?

[Deleted]

I haven't tested it, if you can fit Kingsbane full duration with the vendetta buff active sure. Else Kingsbane's CD is really delayed for the next vendetta thus losing damage since you have to wait for it.

[upliftin]

That's make sense, I used to always pop Envenom at +4cp then Kingsbane without checking Vendetta's buff.

[Deleted]

Does anyone have the Shadow Swiftness (Activating Shadowstep grants you Evasion for 2 sec) trait yet? If so, can you confirm if that mini-Evasion breaks Stealth?

[Rafalga]

Does anyone have the Shadow Swiftness (Activating Shadowstep grants you Evasion for 2 sec) trait yet? If so, can you confirm if that mini-Evasion breaks Stealth?

evasion itself doesn't, so don't think the trait would

[Isoge]

I haven't tested it, if you can fit Kingsbane full duration with the vendetta buff active sure. Else Kingsbane's CD is really delayed for the next vendetta thus losing damage since you have to wait for it.

I was under the impression that kingsbane is not affected by vendetta after recent findings

[Master Guns]

I was under the impression that kingsbane is not affected by vendetta after recent findings

Vendetta is a buff you place on the mob causing it to take more dmg from the rogue. Ofc vendetta modifies kingsbane.

[Isoge]

Vendetta is a buff you place on the mob causing it to take more dmg from the rogue. Ofc vendetta modifies kingsbane.

easy to test, see for yourself

it was just so "obvious" that for some reason, most people didn't bother to research the vendetta effect on kingsbane

[Black Jack]

Was curious what the consensus was i have the legendary boots are we still running 3 master assassin relics or just two and rupture damage?

[Isoge]

uhm blackjack.... you want as much vendetta uptime as possible.... why would you even think about increasing uptime on it when you can choose to lower it?