A former resident reflects on his struggles in Brussels most notorious neighborhood

[Spectral]

Really? You've never heard of the mafia or Irish ghettoes? Are you totally ignorant to history or you just don't want to bring up facts that clearly invalidate your assertion?

Seems a bit like you're avoiding the central point - some segregated, ethnic neighborhoods seem to do pretty well. This implies that segregation isn't the primary driver of problems in other segregated, ethnic neighborhoods. Sophistry isn't going to change that.

[Deleted]

Really? You've never heard of the mafia or Irish ghettoes? Are you totally ignorant to history or you just don't want to bring up facts that clearly invalidate your assertion?

Bringing up the Mafia in this context shows a HUGE lack of knowledge or a ridiculous attempt at deflection, which one is it? The Mafia was an inherently criminal organization that was brought about and made big by opportunity i.e prohibition. It wasn't based on a religious belief, cultural customs etc but on economic gain. The support it got was mostly through fear and intimiation or family connections, not widespread group support based on faith, ideology, common goals etc.

[Acidbaron]

While some of Israels behaviour is questionable, a lot of it comes down to having wisened up after being burnt once. Israel itself did not start these conflicts but is merely a reactionary force for the most part. Trying to blame Israel for a situation the other side has brought about and acting as if they caused it in the first place is beyond ridiculous.

Then again, thank you for proving my point in this thread. You guys are constantly inverting cause and effect to an absurd extent.

"Israel didn't start these conflicts" I think someone needs a history lesson of how Israel came to be recently. Since coming as a large group as illegal immigrants setting up shop in a country , declaring war and performing terrorist attacks to reach their goal of an independent state.

"part of the problem" is inverting cause to an absurd extent, seems more to me you try to merely trying to dismiss any and all causes you dislike by saying they are extreme.

Seeing my post was addressing someone else and the point went completely over your head, i'm pointing out "pot meet kettle". I also find it hilarious he states that culture doesn't mix, as if the Jews from antwerp mix with others.

[Deleted]

Seems a bit like you're avoiding the central point - some segregated, ethnic neighborhoods seem to do pretty well. This implies that segregation isn't the primary driver of problems in other segregated, ethnic neighborhoods. Sophistry isn't going to change that.

Bringing up the Mafia alone should show that he's desperately trying to avoid the core issues instead concentrating on some minor conflicts which often ended up sorting themselves out as the differences overall were mostly economic rather than fundamental ones.

[Fencers]

Article feels kinda laughable and quaint. A kind of perspective that is largely apart from constant, high impact, high violence, daily crime, destitution and inequity as a matter of course.

There was roughly 12 violent crimes and roughly 20 property crimes last week in Compton alone. A month and half back, over a weekend over 20 people were shot in Chicago. Over 10 a day in a two day period.

That's realest.

[Deleted]

"Israel didn't start these conflicts" I think someone needs a history lesson of how Israel came to be recently. Since coming as a large group as illegal immigrants setting up shop in a country , declaring war and performing terrorist attacks to reach their goal of an independent state.

Cute. During the time the settlement happened no official country in that location existed. If you go based on "native country" then Israelites actually have a better claim to it also. The Palestinian population in that region was incredibly small at that time and many mostly moved there to prevent non Muslims from claiming something that was Dār al-Islām.

The wars, wars with a genocidal goal were not brought about by Israel but by the Arabic states and on several occasions no less.

"part of the problem" is inverting cause to an absurd extent, seems more to me you try to merely trying to dismiss any and all causes you dislike by saying they are extreme.

I have at no point called the "causes" extrem. What I called extreme was the lenghts you guys go to to invert cause and effect, something you do on a constant basis and all the time to justify your insane far left views.

as if the Jews from antwerp mix with others.

Even if they don't "mix", they have no innate hostility towards the host country. They do not reject it's existance, reject it's authority and engage in terroristical actions to force it to change to accomodate them. They also do not behave like conquerors and social superiors to any and all other groups expecting to be shown deference by everyone else and be shown preferential treatment.

[Deleted]

Article feels kinda laughable and quaint.

Until you realize that they produced the Paris attacks there.

[sarahtasher]

I think that there is an issue that non Belgian might not have grasped from this article : Belgium is, depending on the writer/politician, deeply divided between two linguistic groups, French-speaking Walloons, and Flemish speaking...Flemish. That does not help from the get go with integration.

Furthermore, migrants from North Africa have a tendancy to be French speakers, and thus gravitate toward the Wallon part of the country, the one with marked economic woes. (That point itself show how you are always the ''welfare queen'' for someone else, as the said Wallon part of the country is routinely called by the ultranationalist flemish as a useless load...)

[Acidbaron]

Cute. During the time the settlement happened no official country in that location existed. If you go based on "native country" then Israelites actually have a better claim to it also. The Palestinian population in that region was incredibly small at that time and many mostly moved there to prevent non Muslims from claiming something that was Dār al-Islām.

The wars, wars with a genocidal goal were not brought about by Israel but by the Arabic states and on several occasions no less.


I have at no point called the "causes" extrem. What I called extreme was the lenghts you guys go to to invert cause and effect, something you do on a constant basis and all the time to justify your insane far left views.

Even if they don't "mix", they have no innate hostility towards the host country. They do not reject it's existance, reject it's authority and engage in terroristical actions to force it to change to accomodate them. They also do not behave like conquerors and social superiors to any and all other groups expecting to be shown deference by everyone else and be shown preferential treatment.

So we should start randomly giving land back to other nations also based on "there simply didn't life enough people to make it really their land", what a nice a logical way. The illegal immigration and later land grab was an invasion, if this happened anywhere else or even in your own country you would see it as an act of war So now i don't agree that the violence was started by the surrounding nations, the first act of aggression came by establishing a state smack in the middle of a region were all surrounding countries had absolutely no say in besides nodding yes.

Oh, i see you are one of those "you don't agree with me there for you are on the left and just a blind sympathizer" Pathetic trying to make this into a political side show and therefor trying to dismiss my points. Want to know how wrong you are? I am a member of the N-VA.

I'll safe you the trouble of looking it up in google: "The New Flemish Alliance is a centre-right Flemish nationalist and conservative political party in Belgium, founded in 2001. It is a regionalist and separatist movement that self-identifies with the promotion of civic nationalism."

You know the "intelligent" right, the not "let's all act strong and tough and think we can remove an entire religion and culture from Europe", The right with realistic answers and solutions and not just populist one liners.

They are as much as a threat as others are of non-extreme ideologies or part of non cults. Their communities, closed of are just as friendly as any others.

[sarahtasher]

So we should start randomly giving land back to other nations also based on "there simply didn't life enough people to make it really their land", what a nice a logical way. The illegal immigration and later land grab was an invasion, if this happened anywhere else or even in your own country you would see it as an act of war So now i don't agree that the violence was started by the surrounding nations, the first act of aggression came by establishing a state smack in the middle of a region were all surrounding countries had absolutely no say in besides nodding yes.

Oh, i see you are one of those "you don't agree with me there for you are on the left and just a blind sympathizer" Pathetic trying to make this into a political side show and therefor trying to dismiss my points. Want to know how wrong you are? I am a member of the N-VA.

I'll safe you the trouble of looking it up in google: "The New Flemish Alliance is a centre-right Flemish nationalist and conservative political party in Belgium, founded in 2001. It is a regionalist and separatist movement that self-identifies with the promotion of civic nationalism."

You know the "intelligent" right, the not "let's all act strong and tough and think we can remove an entire religion and culture from Europe", The right with realistic answers and solutions and not just populist one liners.

They are as much as a threat as others are of non-extreme ideologies or part of non cults. Their communities, closed of are just as friendly as any others.

The issue is that, as I tried to say, this is a Flemish movement, which want to separate from Belgium: they more or less say the same of immigrants than around half of ''real'' Beligans.

[Theodarzna]

Really? You've never heard of the mafia or Irish ghettoes? Are you totally ignorant to history or you just don't want to bring up facts that clearly invalidate your assertion?

I think the key difference is the United States isn't an Ethnic Nation State.

[Acidbaron]

The issue is that, as I tried to say, this is a Flemish movement, which want to separate from Belgium: they more or less say the same of immigrants than around half of ''real'' Beligans.

Citation missing of them making claim of something as "real belgians", it is true they want to split from Belgium and function as an independent nation inside Europe, I support this as Politically and Economically north and south are very different and a lot is already moved to regional powers, and due to this difference we more often come and an impasse and neither side benefits from this. However do take note that unlike the far right as VB, N-VA sees the dissolving of this to be not an aggressive or even an abrupt act but something that will happen naturally over time as it already is slowly happening now with the transition of powers to the regions.

I find our entire political system absurd, someone from the south can't vote for someone of the north and vice versa due to a language barrier, (a language barrier installed by the south and only later questioned when it no longer worked in their favor)

[Mizix]

Bringing up the Mafia alone should show that he's desperately trying to avoid the core issues instead concentrating on some minor conflicts which often ended up sorting themselves out as the differences overall were mostly economic rather than fundamental ones.

Slightly off-topic, but you couldn't be more wrong in saying that Mafia was - *is*, because it still exists! - based only or mostly on economic gain. Sure, power and money play a major role in the raise and fall of families, but culture customs and beliefs are not secondary. If you replace the word "religion" with "family", you get pretty much the same level of fanaticism, violence and stupidity. For example, the last Mafia war between Italian families had more than one thousand people killed between 1981 and 1983 - God knows how many more whose bodies never were found - not to mention the death count during the last decades. Anyway, Mafia has its own culture, which operates on different values and "laws" than the rest of the society. At the inner-circle's level, it is like a cult and the support it gets is much more based on believing in the cause - whichever may that be, usually family - than fear or profit. At the outer level, it poisons everything, from the economy to the mentality of people, many people, not just a few rejects. What is really scary, is that people tend to assume Mafia is in the past. I don't know about the U.S situation, but here in Europe it is so widespread, so good at hiding in plain sight, you hardly notice it any more. You are a fool if you think that regions, neighbourhoods or cities de facto ruled by criminal organizations - not only Mafia, which is a specific branch - are "doing well".

[Fuiking]

Citation missing of them making claim of something as "real belgians", it is true they want to split from Belgium and function as an independent nation inside Europe, I support this as Politically and Economically north and south are very different and a lot is already moved to regional powers, and due to this difference we more often come and an impasse and neither side benefits from this. However do take note that unlike the far right as VB, N-VA sees the dissolving of this to be not an aggressive or even an abrupt act but something that will happen naturally over time as it already is slowly happening now with the transition of powers to the regions.

I find our entire political system absurd, someone from the south can't vote for someone of the north and vice versa due to a language barrier, (a language barrier installed by the south and only later questioned when it no longer worked in their favor)

Not really the south, the ruling elite more or less had a hand in it too. Anyway,

Molenbeek might be bad, try the Jordaan in Amsterdam or some suburbs around that place, Antillians and marrocans dont want to intregrate either.

[Dezerte]

Isn't it weird how some ethnically concentrated neighborhoods turn into unlivable ghettos and some don't? K Town in LA is pretty cool, for example. None of the Little Italy districts I'm aware of in American cities are famous for being violent hellscapes. Chinatown in DC is pretty nice.

Maybe it's not having an ethnic enclave that's the root problem.

For clarification, I think segregation (rejection of or by society) is bad.

[Theinquisition]

We see the same phenomenon in the context of American cities that have crumbled and fallen into disrepair, wherein bad whites are blamed for the white flight response to the Great Migration. Suggesting that there might have been any reason for whites to leave is racist bad think - all right thinking people know that the reason Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark are twisted hellscapes is because of racist whites. Surely the new residents aren't to blame in any way.

As a former Baltimore resident, I can say that things for white people were getting worse and worse by the time I left. Blantant racism, racial assualts, racially targeted theft, you name it.

You haven't experienced racism until you're a white teenager growing up in Baltimore city.

[Fencers]

You haven't experienced racism until you're a white teenager growing up in Baltimore city.

I choked on my pizza. This is a dubious statement at best.

What is the percentage of Caucasian over African-American and Hispanic/Latino teens arrested, detained or victimized in Baltimore? Are there any hate crime statistics?

[sarahtasher]

Integration is not helped by the fact that areas in northern France/French speaking Belgium suffered tremendously from economic downturn because of the end of charbonnages (coal mines) Many of those Muslims are not recent migrants-they are the children and grand children of immigrant workers.

[Deleted]

I choked on my pizza. This is a dubious statement at best.

What is the percentage of Caucasian over African-American and Hispanic/Latino teens arrested, detained or victimized in Baltimore? Are there any hate crime statistics?

This is about individual experience.

Less educated demographics acting more visible racist against the minority in their district why would that be a surprise exactly?

To be honest I believe you just lifed such a sheltered life that you have absolutely no idea how the reality looks for the people living in such districts.
White people or belgians are the de facto minority in those districts and of cource face the brunt of interpersonal
direct ethcnical prejudice and violence.

Why do you think would the local majority face the most discrimination based on their ethnicity?
Why would the 10 black kids in class face more racism then the one white child?

[Theinquisition]

I choked on my pizza. This is a dubious statement at best.

What is the percentage of Caucasian over African-American and Hispanic/Latino teens arrested, detained or victimized in Baltimore? Are there any hate crime statistics?

I guess I was too busy jumped by black dudes in the halls of the school shouting "get em he white" to look up crime statistics.