Swedish government & Surveilance

[Deleted]

So, the Swedish government is seemingly wanting to pass a law that allows the police to install trojans in peoples computers, smartphones or pads. They want to do this under the guise that it's measures that will help protect us against terrorism.

Everything will be under surveilance under this - thoughts, feelings, opinions, letters to relatives - everything like this will be recorded if they get as they want. That's a pretty bad violation of peoples private lives. Last time this was suggested, was by the right-wing government, but it was questioned if it was compatible with our constitution and EU laws, but now they're going to try again, this time the left-wing government.

I have no problems with if they put suspected terrorists under surveillance. But we already know that it's not used strictly for it's intended purposes with past programs like it, there's a lot of reason for concern, especially as they want to pass it fast in an attempt to show that they're not some "weak government" and actually employ measures to protect people.

Thoughts about this?

[Deleted]

I believe it's pretty common for law enforcement agencies to have access to trojans. I know that Germany has the notorious "bundestrojaner" (which is their word for the exact same thing).

I also don't like it a lot. Think it could be abused if falling into the wrong hands. Evidence becomes hard to accept because it can be forged. At the same time, it's arguably less invasive than police raiding your house and confiscating all your computer equipment, with a more efficient "catch rate". For some criminals (especially the "harder" ones encrypting sensitive data, or child porn and stuff) it's the only way to "breach" their encryption - simply keylogging them opening it. If nothing is found, you might not have even noticed they looked at all.

[Deleted]

How would they go about installing this?

[Deleted]

Honestly couldn't care less. Hardly think I will be a target for terrorism surveilance

[Seranthor]

So, the Swedish government is seemingly wanting to pass a law that allows the police to install trojans in peoples computers, smartphones or pads. They want to do this under the guise that it's measures that will help protect us against terrorism.

Everything will be under surveilance under this - thoughts, feelings, opinions, letters to relatives - everything like this will be recorded if they get as they want. That's a pretty bad violation of peoples private lives. Last time this was suggested, was by the right-wing government, but it was questioned if it was compatible with our constitution and EU laws, but now they're going to try again, this time the left-wing government.

I have no problems with if they put suspected terrorists under surveillance. But we already know that it's not used strictly for it's intended purposes with past programs like it, there's a lot of reason for concern, especially as they want to pass it fast in an attempt to show that they're not some "weak government" and actually employ measures to protect people.

Thoughts about this?

Question I would ask is where does the governmental intrusion stop? When a government wants to do something 'fast' its incumbent on the people to push back and ask 'Why?'. Seems to me there is more going on here than government wants to admit.

[Dezerte]

I have little problem with it as long as it's done openly.

[zealo]

How would they go about installing this?

Through zero-day exploits/intentional backdoors in software and possibly also hardware most likely.

[Deleted]

Honestly couldn't care less. Hardly think I will be a target for terrorism surveilance

Terrorism is merely the disguise they use to dress this up in a nice way. Ultimatively they'll use it against anyone they feel like using it against. I don't get this whole "I have nothing to hide." attitude, that's not true even if you think it is. For that matter, even those who have nothing to hide have everything to fear.

[Karlz0rz]

Most people don't have anything to hide, so why would they care?
If the people involved with storing the information can be trusted(needs screening to the highest extent), then I don't really see a reason for why we shouldn't do this.

[Bakis]

They have to prove to me that it is needed before I want to hurray.
Just put a stop sign at the border, will make their working condition and successrate a whole lot better in one move.

[Revi]

Oh, well if it's because of terrorism...

It's like a trump card every since 9/11, people are willing to give up so much to stop terrorism. The sad thing is terrorism in Europe, especially Sweden, is a statistically irrelevant contribution to unnatural deaths. Should be more concerned about added sugar in your food or colon cancer. If they put 1/10th of the effort and money into getting people to check themselves for the common cancers, they'd save more lives.

People should be disgusted by the violations of privacy already in effect, but somehow they're okey with giving up even more. It's like boiling a frog, it doesn't even realize it's getting fucked over as long as it happens gradually.

[Bakis]

Most people don't have anything to hide, so why would they care?
If the people involved with storing the information can be trusted(needs screening to the highest extent), then I don't really see a reason for why we shouldn't do this.

This is the way to end up with a US system coupled with full retard UK cctv policies.

[Karlz0rz]

This is the way to end up with a US system coupled with full retard UK cctv policies.

But if you are clean, does it matter?
If you are not clean, you will get punished for what ever you are doing...
It seems like you are arguing for NOT making the world/country a better place? :P

It's like the people NOT wanting us to start using clean energy. Why would you be AGAINST it?

[Deleted]

Terrorism is merely the disguise they use to dress this up in a nice way. Ultimatively they'll use it against anyone they feel like using it against. I don't get this whole "I have nothing to hide." attitude, that's not true even if you think it is. For that matter, even those who have nothing to hide have everything to fear.

So they will seriously install a Trojan to see my activity on MMO-C? I have everything I like/share/comment on facebook availible for everyone to see already. I don't use Twitter, reddit, 4chan or any other social stuff. There is NOTHING to find from what I am writing on my computer or cellphone.

[Deleted]

Looking how quickly the FRA act turned into something else i don't hold my hopes up that this would go any other route.

[Deleted]

Most people don't have anything to hide, so why would they care?
If the people involved with storing the information can be trusted(needs screening to the highest extent), then I don't really see a reason for why we shouldn't do this.

Oh well good. Then you wouldn't mind if the government installed cameras in your bedroom, toilet and everywhere else in your home? The government would promise not to look as long as they didn't suspect you of anything.

- - - Updated - - -

But if you are clean, does it matter?
If you are not clean, you will get punished for what ever you are doing...
It seems like you are arguing for NOT making the world/country a better place? :P

It's like the people NOT wanting us to start using clean energy. Why would you be AGAINST it?

Be careful what liberties you are willing to surrender in exchange for security. There is a price to pay.

[Bakis]

But if you are clean, does it matter?
If you are not clean, you will get punished for what ever you are doing...
It seems like you are arguing for NOT making the world/country a better place? :P

It's like the people NOT wanting us to start using clean energy. Why would you be AGAINST it?

Governments in general are reluctant to give away power they previously got granted. These things tend to snowball out of hand.
I see no need to grant them anything and I will be so blunt to say that it will inevitably be a human toll needed to alter the mind of the public (look at US/UK for reference).

When the government want to increase surveillance on the basis of preemptive measures the wise thing is to tell it to fuck off
Untill there is a need I dont want it done. I will happily make it as clear as: yes some devastating act of terror would have to happen before I change my mind.

[Revi]

Oh well good. Then you wouldn't mind if the government installed cameras in your bedroom, toilet and everywhere else in your home? The government would promise not to look as long as they didn't suspect you of anything.

Ofc not. If you oppose that you must have something to hide! Or be paranoid!

People either don't realize or don't care how much information is worth
In actual money: selling your information is huge business for major internet services. You are literally their product
And in power: seeing trends, habits, preferences, networks etc. is a huge deal for anyone who wants to sell an idea to the public, or enforce any kind of law or social rule. It's a PR goldmine, it's the single greatest way to find out how to sell a product or an idea. As computers and programs get more advanced in the way of gathering and processing this kind of data, it only becomes more valuable and influential.

Even disregarding that, the right to privacy is a right that grants a massive amount of freedom for those who have it. It really is a shame people are so willing to give it up for no clear benefit other than a vague "it's against terrorism!"

[Independent voter]

Long as they get a judge's approval I'm fine with it. We call it a warrant here, it's what police have to get to search your house if they suspect you of murder say.

[Deleted]

I really don't care about extra surveillance