[SPOILER] Alonsus Faol

[Selastan]

What she has done is that she ressurected Alonsus Faol an important Alliance figure from his resting place without her having the right to do so with necromancy to do her deeds whatever those might be. I mean what's next after that? Let's ressurect Uther also or ressurect all those dead people under Light's Hope, or better yet Anasterian Sunstrider. It's bad that she uses necromancy to ressurect the dead against their will but when she starts ressurecting Alliance heroes of the First and second Wars is too much. As a Player of the Alliance I find that disgusting cause enough is enough.

But if he wanted to be put back down he would be, no one forced him to stay undead, unless this guy in particular is still bound to the Lich King somehow.

[Biomega]

I can definitely imagine someone accepting undeath as a means to an end. I mean, this is the LEGION that's coming - pesky prejudice against undeath does not seem a big deal in the face of total annihilation. The Naaru and the Light are basically the one big force opposing the Legion in the universe - surely they would not frown on a devout servant accepting an otherwise abominable burden in order to defend creation against the Legion's corruption.

[Darth-Piekus]

My problem lies in the fact that she didn't even asked if he wanted to be ressurected. Legion is not an excuse to bring back people that died 30 or 40 years ago not to mention that Sylvannas isn't there for the Legion but for her own agenda.

[Selastan]

My problem lies in the fact that she didn't even asked if he wanted to be ressurected. Legion is not an excuse to bring back people that died 30 or 40 years ago not to mention that Sylvannas isn't there for the Legion but for her own agenda.

She would ask him. That is the point I'm trying to make here. No one becomes Forsaken against their will. They get brought up, get asked, and can either go back to their happy little afterlife or fight for the Forsaken. I'm 99% sure that he was a Scourge that was liberated by Sylvanas, but if he was brought up he wanted to stay. There is an equally good chance that since he was buried under Scarlet Monastery that he is/was under Balnazzar's control as well.

[Darth-Piekus]

The problem is that she doesn't have the right to do that at all. It would have been a different thing if he was already a Scourge undead liberated but ressurecting someone against his will and then asking him if he wants to die again or work for her is not right in my opinion. Why don't we ressurect Grom then or all those that are under Lights Hope just to ask them the same question?

[Selastan]

The problem is that she doesn't have the right to do that at all. It would have been a different thing if he was already a Scourge undead liberated but ressurecting someone against his will and then asking him if he wants to die again or work for her is not right in my opinion. Why don't we ressurect Grom then or all those that are under Lights Hope just to ask them the same question?

Good point, why don't we? They might want to fight the Legion, they are noble warriors after all. Go slaughter a few thousand demons, and if you survive you can be put back down humanely. I'm sure that since they are magically held together by shadow magic there is a spell that can just act like pulling a plug, sucking away the magic and returning the soul to rest. Unless you think that being resurrected for the two seconds it takes to ask is already too far. Being undead might suck but being one for a whole two seconds isn't the end of the world.

[Darth-Piekus]

We simply do not. They fought and they died a long time ago. It is morally wrong. The Legion is not an excuse and with Sylvannas there is something sinister usually for them.

[Deleted]

Well Grom appears to be Undead in Legion. Whether Forsaken or not remains to be seen.

[Raetary]

Well Grom appears to be Undead in Legion. Whether Forsaken or not remains to be seen.

maybe he is in the halls of valor.

[Soeroah]

She would ask him. That is the point I'm trying to make here. No one becomes Forsaken against their will. They get brought up, get asked, and can either go back to their happy little afterlife or fight for the Forsaken. I'm 99% sure that he was a Scourge that was liberated by Sylvanas, but if he was brought up he wanted to stay. There is an equally good chance that since he was buried under Scarlet Monastery that he is/was under Balnazzar's control as well.

While I personally think the development, if true and canon, is fine and I'd be interested in seeing what develops especially with Turalyon and Alleria coming back to find what she's done, I feel I should point something out.

In regards to your 'happy little afterlife' statement, the evidence is strongly in favour of undead not having an afterlife. Arthas, Lord Marrowgar, Sylvannas, they've all died and commented on how the only thing they saw was "darkness". Additionally, Forsaken are terrified of double death, as it's considered somehow worse than normal death.

The chances are high that raising Faol is akin to locking him out of any afterlife he was experiencing, making any choice he makes about fighting for the Forsaken kind of moot. He's forever blocked from the afterlife.

Having said that, Sylvannas is heading toward Vrykul heaven and hell in Legion, and the humans are descended from Vrykul. There's a possibility that Vrykul, human and souls raised by Val'kyr are bound to those locations rather than the 'true' afterlife, as it sounds like they are a Titan creation, so perhaps by destroying Vrykul hell, for example, the souls of the undead and Forsaken could once again find peace.

[Darth-Piekus]

I believe guys you understand why I find it morally wrong from the living's prespective. To ressurect a hero of the Alliance or the Horde to work for you as a Forsaken to promote your own agenda cause let's be honest Sylvannas is not there for the Legion but for the Valkyr. Unless something changes I don't see her staying alive for long.

[Deleted]

maybe he is in the halls of valor.

The others there are not labelled undead.

[Anjerith]

Well Grom appears to be Undead in Legion. Whether Forsaken or not remains to be seen.

Grom is dead, why wouldn't he be undead?

You are clearly confusing him with GromMASH.

[Baracuda]

What she has done is that she ressurected Alonsus Faol an important Alliance figure from his resting place without her having the right to do so with necromancy to do her deeds whatever those might be. I mean what's next after that? Let's ressurect Uther also or ressurect all those dead people under Light's Hope, or better yet Anasterian Sunstrider. It's bad that she uses necromancy to ressurect the dead against their will but when she starts ressurecting Alliance heroes of the First and second Wars is too much. As a Player of the Alliance I find that disgusting cause enough is enough.

"Without the right"... what exactly do you think is the subject? Necromancy is almost always against the target's will but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage of it if you can get away with it. Don't even bring up morals...

[Deleted]

Grom is dead, why wouldn't he be undead?

You are clearly confusing him with GromMASH.

No I'm not :P

[Darth-Piekus]

Grom is Grommash. He was just named Grom for short. Though on the other hand the other Grom of the other timeline could indeed be Grommash and our Grom could just be Grom just like Rexxar's pet in that other timeline is called Nisha the Blue Hawk and our Rexxar had Misha the Bear.

[Biomega]

We simply do not. They fought and they died a long time ago. It is morally wrong. The Legion is not an excuse and with Sylvannas there is something sinister usually for them.

I am not sure that morals are an argument when the stakes are literally all of creation. For all we know, Sargeras' corruption extends even to whatever afterlife there may be. When nothing remains, "morals" is not something you can really escape to.

Even real-life religions make exceptions like that. "Would you pull an ass out of a pit on the Sabbath" is a popularly quoted example. Life, and by extension: existence, are usually a higher-valued good than morals.

Don't forget that while Sylvanas might have SOME ulterior motive in all of this, there is no denying that she is ALSO helping the cause against the Legion. Her agenda just becomes another price to pay for victory over the Legion. If the ONLY reason she did this was to advance her cause, well, that'd be a different matter altogether. But that's not usually how she does things. That's why she's so difficult to attack politically - all she does makes sense, somehow. And yet it also plays right into her hands...

[Darth-Piekus]

Let's hope you are right Bio cause with Sylvannas nothing is that simple.

[Rend Blackhand]

I think if Faol is Forsaken, he would have been Undead the whole time. There's a graveyard in Tirisfal called Faol's rest which has seen better days.

It's perfectly possible he was raised during the original Scourge invasion as he died before the third war.

[NFA]

All things considered I'm really hoping this doesn't become a thing. I'm all for Blizzard giving some spotlight to important lore characters but resurrecting them with the flick of a wrist (or in this case val'kyr) is very cheap storytelling and it diminishes the effect of character death when the possibility of necromancy seems to apply to everyone now, regardless of how long ago they died.

It's also a bit contradicting to their previous statements about WoD and how they wanted to make more original characters (like Yrel) yet now we only see old characters returning.