Ret beats who in a 1v1?

[Ermelloth]

Oh, laugh as much as you want. Actually, why should I even argue?

Continue considering Ret rubbish, so when I ambush an unwary DK from enemy WPvP guilds in open world, they would think there is no danger and hence play offensively and make mistakes. Better for me this way.

[Deleted]

EDIT: Been playing a paladin for nearly 8 years and a DK for a about 2 years now and I don't know but I can't see how the paladin will have the upper hand.

He was talking about WPvP. You can expect crazy pendulum swings in terms of player skill you encounter. Ofc ret "can" kill stuff. But having an opponent with an actual brain will put you into a not-favorable position.
Hell, I kill people as a prot pally. Even fully PvP Geared people. Doesn't mean Prot is a great 1v1 Spec (and yes, not just talking melee).

[Ermelloth]

I wrote you a PM explaining some of my tactics.

In general, decent Ret would just not let DK attack him in melee range. If DK uses Asphyxiate - trinket / BoP / bubble out. If DK grips - Freedom, judgement, run away. Playing only with Seal of Justice on vs. DK (+ Glyph of Burden of Guilt, so double slow). Cleanse diseases on cooldown. Emancipate out of stacking stun (forgot the name). Never use FoJ when DK is with AMS.

Who would tell me, how often can a DK remove snares and roots?

Frost DK can't kill a Ret with Howling Blasts, Icy Touch and Death Coil only - his main nukes are still melee range. While Ret with Final Verdict has all his main damage abilities ranged.

If Ret tries to fight a Frost DK in melee, sure, he dies. Obliterates will eventually finish him off. I guess, idiot Rets do exactly that and hope their burst would be enough to get a kill. Frost DK does so much more damage in melee range, including Killing Machine procs, so staying in melee = certain death.

But if Ret can kite like a pro, that's a different story. Yes, it will be a long fight, DK will heal to full few times, but the combination of right talents, defensive use of Execution Sentence and keeping yourself at range would turn the favor for Ret.

P.S. Everyone tends to forget about LoH Remember, we're not in Arena. DKs often pop Army of the Dead, so nothing would prevent me to use LoH as well.

P.P.S. UH DK is a lot more dangerous for Ret than Frost, but if you spot the Gargoyle in time, use Turn Evil on run away from it, it would be much easier to survive the encounter.

[Ermelloth]

Btw, there is another little trick how to get AMS / IBF cooldowns out of DK.

Everyone knows Rets have burst macro (Holy Avenger + Wings + trinket or smth). If a DK sees it (Wings popped are always visible lol), he pops IBF / AMS right away so Ret loses his burst. 99% of DKs I've seen would insta pop AMS when they see Wings up.

So, I'm keeping separate Wings button on my UI and sometimes I pop Wings only (w/o the actual burst abilities). DK or other player would think that I used my burst macro and pop defensives (AMS / IBF in DK's case). And then it's off, then on next FoJ I would actually use Holy Avenger + trinket / ring and burst. Bit less damage w/o AW, but might be enough to make a difference. In this case I also add Draenic Strengh potion to the table.

Works vs. many enemies.

[Cempa]

I used to play Retr and was really good at kiting, I noticed that the better I am at kiting the better I performed..I stopped playing because I started feeling non heroic..I mean my strategy is range them then run and pillar hump and heal up..

Now I play Feral lool Ironically I picked the one build Retr completely dominates ...

With Legion removal of seals (they are removing seals right?) I might go back because Blizzard stated a more 'melee' feel to the build.

[SheepHunter]

Ret is the best 1v1 class because of their retarded healing and damage + 3 bubbles and lay on hands.

[Snegovik]

Sup every1, while a lot of ppl here focus on class, it seems every1 forgot about skill cap of ur enemy. I play Ret since Wrath, 2.5k xp/AM. Ret is the best class to smash nubs and sub 2.2k xp (arena) players, when u are facing 2.4k xp + currently you will never beat a good UH dk or Enh shammy who glyphs 60% dmg reduction vs ur wings, unless they mess up big time, which they prob wont, u wont kill those 2 specs. Then come WW/Ferals/Frost Mages (once again 2.4k xp + on open) you can beat them, but its pretty hard u have to manage ur cds very well like BOP feral's bleeds openers, WW's karma, if you play without mistakes, u can beat those specs, rest of dps/tank specs should be cake for you, asp hunters, ret should never lose to a hunter. When it comes to healers, dont bother, cuz unless its arena you cant kill a good healer 1v1, unless you want spend 30 min on a duel. Saying all that, in world pvp or Random bgs chances of facing a high rated pvper, are pretty slim, so you should be able to beat most of the ppl, and dont listen to those haters, most ppl hate Rets with passion, mainly due to the fact at one point (or more often than that) they got pwned by some Ret pally ).

[Knolan]

I am not really a fan of duels, so I hardly duel, but I haven't lost to a pally in WoD as a feral.

Just trinket the stun of wings and run like there is no tomorrow, typhon and travel form charge if needed.
Once you survived wings, just making keeping rejuv up and using PS procs should be enough to keep alive and they eventually die.
Also, popping incarn without using zerk / TF is fun, cause a lot of rets will immediatly bubble / bop, so just wait for it to finish (cast clone in case of bop and they not being full health, so they don't heal), then pop the zerk/ TF and they will get rekt.

[nodq]

Btw, there is another little trick how to get AMS / IBF cooldowns out of DK.

Everyone knows Rets have burst macro (Holy Avenger + Wings + trinket or smth). If a DK sees it (Wings popped are always visible lol), he pops IBF / AMS right away so Ret loses his burst. 99% of DKs I've seen would insta pop AMS when they see Wings up.

So, I'm keeping separate Wings button on my UI and sometimes I pop Wings only (w/o the actual burst abilities). DK or other player would think that I used my burst macro and pop defensives (AMS / IBF in DK's case). And then it's off, then on next FoJ I would actually use Holy Avenger + trinket / ring and burst. Bit less damage w/o AW, but might be enough to make a difference. In this case I also add Draenic Strengh potion to the table.

Works vs. many enemies.

So thats exp based on 1v1'ing bad players actually. So everything you said is kind of irrelevant now.

[Rorke]

DK's can beat Ret. This guy talking about Ret owning DK's has no idea what he's talking about.

Death Siphon is the most overpowered healing ability in the game. Any DK that uses his Death Runes correctly and knows how to pool runes/resources and uses Death Siphon during procs (Fallen Crusader, trinkets) and Pillar is literally a livelord until all of that is gone. And this isn't even mentioning using Death Strike on Frost/Unholy Runes for even more ridiculous healing.

Rets just don't deal enough sustained damage to out damage Death Siphon healing. And a DK that has glyph of swapping Presences and uses Deaths Advance/Unholy Presence, can catch a Ret espeically with Icy Touch glyph taking Freedom off.

I've actually sat through a Fury Warrior burst doing nothing, and then when I got to around 20%, I went into "livelord mode" and outhealed a FURY Warrior that still had 10 seconds of Avatar left while still getting SD procs. DK's don't even need to use Icebound for defensive purposes because Pillar of Frost is the best defensive cd for the class as it ridiculously increases the healing gained by Death Siphon.

The only thing I can see happening when a skill capped Ret faces a skill capped DK is that the duel lasts a half an hour with the DK eventually wearing the Ret down and winning. There's only so many gimmicks the Ret has before the DK gets lucky and snags a HoJ or freedom with Dark Sim to ultimately tip the balance of the game. The DK has a literal endless healing resource system that just doesn't wear down where as the Ret will run out and will die.

[Rocosso]

For my opinion, if dont pick healers, feral is still the best in PVP

[Snegovik]

For my opinion, if dont pick healers, feral is still the best in PVP

you need define your pvp: RBGs. reg BGs. Arena. Duels, World pvp. Over all feral is good, but Enh is better. I rolled Enh last season just for fun, to see how far i can get as turbo...lets just say i felt like i was on staroids after playing my ret for so long. as Enh i eat frost mage/DKs alive without even popping my 1st shot macro, and in arena or RBG enh is way better than feral.

[gaz770]

DK's can beat Ret. This guy talking about Ret owning DK's has no idea what he's talking about.

Death Siphon is the most overpowered healing ability in the game. Any DK that uses his Death Runes correctly and knows how to pool runes/resources and uses Death Siphon during procs (Fallen Crusader, trinkets) and Pillar is literally a livelord until all of that is gone. And this isn't even mentioning using Death Strike on Frost/Unholy Runes for even more ridiculous healing.

Rets just don't deal enough sustained damage to out damage Death Siphon healing. And a DK that has glyph of swapping Presences and uses Deaths Advance/Unholy Presence, can catch a Ret espeically with Icy Touch glyph taking Freedom off.

I've actually sat through a Fury Warrior burst doing nothing, and then when I got to around 20%, I went into "livelord mode" and outhealed a FURY Warrior that still had 10 seconds of Avatar left while still getting SD procs. DK's don't even need to use Icebound for defensive purposes because Pillar of Frost is the best defensive cd for the class as it ridiculously increases the healing gained by Death Siphon.

The only thing I can see happening when a skill capped Ret faces a skill capped DK is that the duel lasts a half an hour with the DK eventually wearing the Ret down and winning. There's only so many gimmicks the Ret has before the DK gets lucky and snags a HoJ or freedom with Dark Sim to ultimately tip the balance of the game. The DK has a literal endless healing resource system that just doesn't wear down where as the Ret will run out and will die.

100x this DK is broken and pretty much counter any melee classes in 1v1.

[Snegovik]

100x this DK is broken and pretty much counter any melee classes in 1v1.

Enh can beat any DK spec pretty easy, and also ferals (i dont play feral so cant tell for 100%) should have an upper hand vs DK in arena 1v1 or with any type of pillar to run around to heal/restealth while DK is full of bleeds.

[Trematode]

Enh can beat any DK spec pretty easy, and also ferals (i dont play feral so cant tell for 100%) should have an upper hand vs DK in arena 1v1 or with any type of pillar to run around to heal/restealth while DK is full of bleeds.

If the Feral fights with a extremely skilled brain, it has a chance against a DK. It will bleed then kite, restealth, rinse and repeat..

But if going toe by toe then Ferals stand no chance against a skilled DK (UH or Frost).

[Super Kami Dende]

DK's can beat Ret. This guy talking about Ret owning DK's has no idea what he's talking about.

Death Siphon is the most overpowered healing ability in the game. Any DK that uses his Death Runes correctly and knows how to pool runes/resources and uses Death Siphon during procs (Fallen Crusader, trinkets) and Pillar is literally a livelord until all of that is gone. And this isn't even mentioning using Death Strike on Frost/Unholy Runes for even more ridiculous healing.

Rets just don't deal enough sustained damage to out damage Death Siphon healing. And a DK that has glyph of swapping Presences and uses Deaths Advance/Unholy Presence, can catch a Ret espeically with Icy Touch glyph taking Freedom off.

I've actually sat through a Fury Warrior burst doing nothing, and then when I got to around 20%, I went into "livelord mode" and outhealed a FURY Warrior that still had 10 seconds of Avatar left while still getting SD procs. DK's don't even need to use Icebound for defensive purposes because Pillar of Frost is the best defensive cd for the class as it ridiculously increases the healing gained by Death Siphon.

The only thing I can see happening when a skill capped Ret faces a skill capped DK is that the duel lasts a half an hour with the DK eventually wearing the Ret down and winning. There's only so many gimmicks the Ret has before the DK gets lucky and snags a HoJ or freedom with Dark Sim to ultimately tip the balance of the game. The DK has a literal endless healing resource system that just doesn't wear down where as the Ret will run out and will die.

Wut? When I come up against a DK on my Ret in Arena it is pretty much a guaranteed "free" win.

[Rorke]

Wut? When I come up against a DK on my Ret in Arena it is pretty much a guaranteed "free" win.

You've never fought a skill capped DK then. They're extremely rare because most people that play DK are terrible players but there's a small amount of good players that have played the class for years where they've basically mastered the rune system to perfection.

[Nights]

Well maby i was lucky but i think i never meet ret who could beat me in 1vs1 no matter if it was wpvp or rbgs i play as affli lock with pve build usually goSac and sb haunt. Outside of buble they just die in matter of seconds.

[Deleted]

You've never fought a skill capped DK then. They're extremely rare because most people that play DK are terrible players but there's a small amount of good players that have played the class for years where they've basically mastered the rune system to perfection.

Do you happen to have a link or alike to a guide on a decent PvP DK's? I'm not as interested in becoming one as in learning how to beat them by finding their weakness/openings. Ended up with a 1v1 DK in skirmish as a WW and he just wouldn't die / kept healing himself. The only weak thing about DK I could perceive was them not having many gap closers but that doesn't mean a lot if he always has the upper hand in melee.

[Snegovik]

You've never fought a skill capped DK then. They're extremely rare because most people that play DK are terrible players but there's a small amount of good players that have played the class for years where they've basically mastered the rune system to perfection.

100% what this guy said. In arena a big chunk of the outcome determined by the comp you run, so lets say if you run Ret/Hpal vs DK/rog you should win (same skill lvl), same goes for 3v3 if your team is better skilled/better comp you can beat even a good DK, but that’s not just you, its ur team + ur comp. However, if u left 1v1 vs high end XP dk without cds ull lose right away, if you both have cds, u may live for a bit, but u still lose. This season skilled Ret will lose 99% vs skilled Dk (unless DK messes up or speced into wrong stuff)

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Well maby i was lucky but i think i never meet ret who could beat me in 1vs1 no matter if it was wpvp or rbgs i play as affli lock with pve build usually goSac and sb haunt. Outside of buble they just die in matter of seconds.

My UA friend…oh these locks ). The reason you do not have issues with Rets in RBGs since Rets are not viable in RBGs (Last time I remember Rets somewhat being decent in RBGs was 2nd season of MOP with our insane burst we had). ATM rets can only get in Yolo or low CR grps, no grp above 1.9k cr will take Ret, that’s why it is easy for you to kill them, since teams you facing are prob not very high skilled and good rets don’t bother with RBGs beyond 3 wins per week during first 6 weeks of the season, glad lvl rets who play with their glad friends, usually go Holy for RBGs.
In worldpvp, R1 and Glad Rets usually only do 3s arena, they don’t really spend time worldpvp, since busy with alts, carries or streams. Most of the non-glad Rets who were good quit pvp or spec this WOD s2/s3 and only rets you face are pve rets or very casual low-skill Rets.
Saying all that, i forgot last time I lost to UA in a duel, I just burst down UA, using bubble as 2nd trinket + glyph that heals 10% for each dot when I bubble, I don’t have issues with locks outside of arena (I don’t do RBGs any more)