Problems with Feminist -ism's

[dextersmith]

If the good and bad is found in any and all those threads, why make yet another one just for that?

[Elegiac]

Do you imply the people here hate woman?

No. Merely that they have no idea what feminism is beyond what the media tells them.

[Deleted]

No. Merely that they have no idea what feminism is beyond what the media tells them.

You mean the highest profile feminist conferences, speaker, media outlets, hastags, movements, persons all lie?

All gender studys classes I heard even some sentences about the curriculum are bashit insane.

[Elegiac]

You mean the highest profile feminist conferences, speaker, media outlets, hastags, movements, persons all lie?

'Highest profile'.

Here is the problem with news media, especially corporate news media. The things they report are reported precisely because they are so controversial and exceptional; there isn't any story in a husband loving his wife, it is only when they start to beat each other that it becomes news.

The reality is that the majority of feminists are not 'feminazis' or whatever the BS term de jour is being tossed about. The issue comes from the fact that you and people like you operate under the false assumption that legal equality is the only one that has a functional impact on people's lives.

[Theodarzna]

I am glad someone stepped in and made a new feminism thread for OT, there might have been a full 45 minutes before we were without one on the first page.

Maybe by having one explicit magnetic thread they will all pour into here and not become 5 threads a day?

[kneehidude]

The $0.77 on the dollar isn't "false", it's just not what some people present it to be. Women do, on average, make $0.77 for every $1 men make. The issue is that this isn't controlled for the types of jobs they make, or the hours they work.

And while those often don't boil down to extrinsic prejudice against women, they often do reflect internalized cultural aspects that demonstrate that modern society still doesn't consider the two genders truly equal. Women generally work less hours, for instance, because they still pick up the slack in terms of child care and household chores. It's a deep culturally-developed gender role issue, and that's not something you can correct overnight, nor is it the result of explicit prejudice keeping women down.

That doesn't mean it should be ignored, however.

And women still haven't (quite) reached parity when you do control for those factors, anyway; various studies put women's pay, all things being equal, at the $0.92-0.97 on the dollar range. Closer, but not fully equal. Some of that may be generational lag, too. I'm not trying to argue that women are totally screwed, here, just pointing out that the datum in question isn't "false", just misrepresented.

Fair point.

[Celista]

Maybe by having one explicit magnetic thread they will all pour into here and not become 5 threads a day?

There was already a feminsm thread on the front page, though. Also, "problems with feminist-isms" does not make a compelling case for a place where open discourse can be had on the subject, maybe make a mega-thread title with a little less bias?

[Deleted]

'Highest profile'.

Here is the problem with news media, especially corporate news media. The things they report are reported precisely because they are so controversial and exceptional; there isn't any story in a husband loving his wife, it is only when they start to beat each other that it becomes news.

The reality is that the majority of feminists are not 'feminazis' or whatever the BS term de jour is being tossed about. The issue comes from the fact that you and people like you operate under the false assumption that legal equality is the only one that has a functional impact on people's lives.

All gender study classes I ever heard or read about not real feminism?

[Elegiac]

All gender studie classes I ever heard or read about not real feminism?

Considering you have no idea what goes on in a gender studies class, I'd suggest quitting while you're ahead.

Gender studies is an examination of cultural attitudes surrounding sex and gender both historically and presently, which is an entirely valid subset of cultural anthropology, sociology, and the like.

[Deleted]

Considering you have no idea what goes on in a gender studies class, I'd suggest quitting while you're ahead.

Gender studies is an examination of cultural attitudes surrounding sex and gender both historically and presently, which is an entirely valid subset of cultural anthropology, sociology, and the like.

Gender study class that doesn't buy into patriarchal theory?
Or toxic masculinity.

[Celista]

All gender study classes I ever heard or read about not real feminism?

The women's studies courses I took talked about men's issues, too...the feminist views were moderate, it wasn't a bitch-fest about men during class. A significant number of men were in the class, too.

If anything we talked about intersectionality a lot, and how SES/sexual orientation/race/gender intersect one another to create levels of privilege/disenfranchisement.

[Deleted]

The women's studies courses I took talked about men's issues, too...the feminist views were moderate, it wasn't a bitch-fest about men during class. A significant number of men were in the class, too.

If anything we talked about intersectionality a lot, and how SES/sexual orientation/race/gender intersect one another to create levels of privilege/disenfranchisement.

Nono. Patriarchal theory if its in they are insane.

I don't give a fuck if they can frame female issues as male issues those are not genuine male issues.
You got brainwashed kudos.

[Celista]

Considering you have no idea what goes on in a gender studies class, I'd suggest quitting while you're ahead.

Gender studies is an examination of cultural attitudes surrounding sex and gender both historically and presently, which is an entirely valid subset of cultural anthropology, sociology, and the like.

Yeah..if you haven't been in a gender studies class, you can't bitch about it really.

OH GOD SUCKED INTO ANOTHER FEMINISM THREAD. Good luck, everyone. *unsubscribes*

[Elegiac]

Nono. Patriarchal theory if its in they are insane.

I don't give a fuck if they can frame female issues as male issues those are not genuine male issues.
You got brainwashed kudos.

Again, considering you do not actually understand what is covered under gender studies you're basically talking out of your ass.

[Deleted]

Yeah..if you haven't been in a gender studies class, you can't bitch about it really.

I know enough about your crappy patriarchal theorys to know how disenfranchised from reality they are.

Again, considering you do not actually understand what is covered under gender studies you're basically talking out of your ass.

Disagreeing with you does not in the slightest mean I'm incapeable of understanding it.

[Theodarzna]

Not particularly.

Everyone operates from their own viewpoint. And things with immediate personal impact almost always emerge as bigger personal issues, for you. This is why we're more concerned about, say, the price of gas here at home, than we are about the suffering of children in Africa; the price of gas affects us, while we (generally) have little to no exposure to those children in Africa. The latter's a bigger issue, on its own merits, but our personal experience makes it less pressing to us, as individuals. And there's so many of these issues that we're simply not aware of a great many of them; we've never been exposed to their existence, to acknowledge them as a concern.

I think that trying to argue that politics is anything but personal is a bit disingenuous; that's why we get so totally bent out of shape over it. Because it is personal.

It's like when people say "it isn't personal; it's just business." Usually, they use that after making a decision with a heavy personal impact on someone else. It is personal, to that person. The adage does nothing to assuage that.

Some viewpoints are inherently not good for the alleged goal you have.

Ones Lived Experience is entirely subject to personal bias. The problem would be akin to starting a movement that focuses a lot on issues affecting Americans, But claims to be a global movement and shouts down anyone who mentions problems of African starving children because the core of the movement is entirely American.

Nobody is arguing that politics doesn't on some level cross into peoples personal lives. The operating difference is that an entire political ideology isn't based first on the Lived Experiences of a specific group. The problem is your trying to have your cake and eat it too. Feminism is for gender equality AND Women's Lived Experiences will provide the framework for achieving that aim. Even when evidence is presented that it hasn't achieved that aim and other perspectives point out all sorts of wicked and pernicious actions, people won't admit these faults.

[Elegiac]

how disenfranchised

This word doesn't mean what you think it does.

[Theodarzna]

There was already a feminsm thread on the front page, though. Also, "problems with feminist-isms" does not make a compelling case for a place where open discourse can be had on the subject, maybe make a mega-thread title with a little less bias?

All threads that mention Feminism inevitably become forums for criticism of Feminism, The thread is obviously a platform for discussing that. That is kind of my point.

[Deleted]

This word doesn't mean what you think it does.

If you think the USA is a patriarchal society you are mental.

If you teach it in a class you are insulting the education of the people you
are responsible for.

[Elegiac]

If you think the USA is a patriarchal society you are mental.

In the legal sense, it is largely not.

In the social sense; yes, there remain significant social issues surrounding gender.