Obama: Muslims must do more against ISIS

[Vyxn]

“An extremist ideology has spread within some Muslim communities. That’s a real problem that Muslims must confront without excuse,” Obama said in just his third such message from his inner sanctum in the West Wing.

“Muslim leaders here and around the globe have to continue working with us to decisively and unequivocally reject the hateful ideology that groups like ISIL and al-Qaeda promote - to speak out against not just acts of violence, but also those interpretations of Islam that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect, and human dignity,” he said



https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama...020151885.html

Halleluiah something Obama said I can actually get behind and whole heatedly agree with. please no one have a heart attack

The problem with radical Islamic terrorist has to be solved by Muslims no more excuse like we seen CARE give every time we have an radical Islamic attack no more passing the buck no more denials "this isn't Islam so not our problem"

Only way this can be solved is by the moderate peace loving Muslims to hunt out and eradicate the cancer that has metastasized in Islam they need to start rejecting and ejecting the imams and leaders that are preaching the hate and intolerance

[Skroe]

It's good he said that. It's important.

They won't do it though. We should give up that hope. Really. It's 2015. We've been waiting for them to get off the bench since 2001. 14 years ago.

It's not happening. The notable exception is of course, the Muslims - of which there have been many - who have joined Western armed forces to fight in the wars of the past 14 years. But political fronts and Muslim organized international organizations to take on radical imams and the people who fund them globally? Hasn't happened. It's not going to happen. They'll make excuses about it, as Obama said, until the end of time because they aren't willing to go far enough. A slick speech at the UN or some international forum though? They'll do that readily.

Speech was garbage otherwise. Typical Obama fare.

[Wells]

They won't do it though. We should give up that hope. Really. It's 2015. We've been waiting for them to get off the bench since 2001. 14 years ago.

What exactly is it that you've been waiting to see them do?

[Vyxn]

What exactly is it that you've been waiting to see them do?

why aren't the leaders in these Muslim countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia which seams like many of these radical Muslims are coming from not hunting down and closing down the Masque and jailing the Imams that are preaching and teaching the hate

[Wells]

why aren't the leaders in these Muslim countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia which seams like many of these radical Muslims are coming from not hunting down and closing down the Masque and jailing the Imams that are preaching and teaching the hate

You answered your own question, as I sure you know.

[bewbew]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/70...eform-movement

I've seem this posted today on facebook.

I smiled.

I know nothing will happen anyway, because muslims won't Reform their religion. But whatever.

[Vyxn]

You answered your own question, as I sure you know.

I say America and Europe needs to put the economic boot to the necks of these Muslim countries that are turning a blind eye to the radicalization being taught in the masques in their countries

[Fullmetal89]

I don't like the president very much but I'm actually surprised and glad he said this. About time.

[Vyxn]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/70...eform-movement

I've seem this posted today on facebook.

I smiled.

I know nothing will happen anyway, because muslims won't Reform their religion. But whatever.

gives me some hope but I'm afraid it might just be nothing but lip service until I actually see some action taken

[Ianus]

problem is most muslims silently approve isis against western civilization

[Wells]

I say America and Europe needs to put the economic boot to the necks of these Muslim countries that are turning a blind eye to the radicalization being taught in the masques in their countries

"These Muslim countries" and "Saudi Arabia & Pakistan" aren't interchangeable terms. If you want to complain about a specific country's foreign policy then do so, but don't confuse it for some religion wide decision.

[toastteetoast]

problem is most muslims silently approve isis against western civilization

Their not silent about it a lot of them openly support it >.>

[SL1200]

The only people who can solve this problem are the Muslims. If they're unwilling or unable to stop these extremists. Eventually it's going to lead to total war.

[Deleted]

It's crazy how public opinion on this issue has changed recently, half the comments in this thread would be banned six months ago

[Ianus]

saudi arabia and qatar even finance militaristic oriented imams in mosques across eu

- - - Updated - - -

It's crazy how public opinion on this issue has changed recently, half the comments in this thread would be banned six months ago

thats because liberals arent blind anymore and they cant preach about false tolerance to ppl that see women in same light as dog..or they see other ppl that arent their religion as slaves

[toastteetoast]

saudi arabia and qatar even finance militaristic oriented imams in mosques across eu

- - - Updated - - -



thats because liberals arent blind anymore and they cant preach about false tolerance to ppl that see women in same light as dog..or they see other ppl that arent their religion as slaves

Eventually even camp tolerant gets tired of tripping over bodies. Eventually they realize in time how badly they fucked up then run back to the people they demonized to save them.

Funny enough most of the history of the left in the west is comparable to a small child running away from home because they only got one cookie instead of two.

[Imatapir]

problem is most muslims silently approve isis against western civilization

Yeah, you just made this up on the spot.
SEriously, that's not even close to being true.

[Ianus]

Yeah, you just made this up on the spot.
SEriously, that's not even close to being true.

its true i have muslims in my country and know how they think..thats just my own xp..if u arent muslim they see you differently.. and they force their own group muslim agenda even though they are minority and they are 1000 kilometers away from middle east muslims and never saw them

[Skroe]

What exactly is it that you've been waiting to see them do?

There's lots of things.

One often claimed "problem" with "reforming" Islam is that there is no central authority.to describe doctrine and expel those tho do not follow it. Sure there is the leading clerics of Saudi Arabia or that Muslim center of learning in Egypt. And nationally there are prominent figures like Al-Sistani in Iraq. But there is no "Muslim pope" so to speak, which allows adherents to pick and choose their doctrine.

To set up a mosque (or anything else) takes money and training and infrastructure. One approach is to go "American Medical Association" on Islam, so to speak. Create national institutions that licence muslim imams to preech in Western (and eventually others). And centrally control doctrine, message and hiring of imams. No license? No mainstream mosque. Sure radical imams could open fringe mosques but they would be stigmatized like that. It would start in the west, but move into muslim countries that clone the idea. Notably, it would be non-governmental.

Basically create institutions that delegitimize, in as official capacities as possible, radical preachers. Fatwas are pointless, when radicals don't think that chosen imam is illegitimate. The solution is to make declaring the mainstream "official Muslim council", which controls 99% of mosques (and 100% of hiring) in a given country, as illegitimate, extremely difficult. It will still be done of course, but it creates a licencing system that can act as a check against radicals ability to preach and recruit, without the state having to take the role of interfering with religious practices.

Also symbolically, of course, it would take ownership of the problem.

Then there is the instance of Saudi money. Let's be clear - Saudi Arabia gives a lot of money to radical preachers. But the number is exaggerated. The Saudi Budget is $190 billion, which is only slightly more than the budget of the state of California. In the big scheme of things, not a lot. The number they give to radicals amounts to millions, not billions of dollars.

Mainstream(moderate is a stupid word in this case) Muslims can counter this. They can set up a central fund to finance the above idea, counter-radical NGO driven education in the developing world, and even private sector intelligence gathering. There are enough of them - and they'll be able to find wealthy donors - to go toe to toe with Saudi money, or at least allow it to go answered and not unanswered. The problem with US public diplomacy is that it has to be so many places, against so many causes at once. It can't laser focus, as something Muslim sourced has.

Lastly there is a military angle. Westerners, especially Iraq War veterans, are volunteering to fight with the Kurds against ISIS now. During the Cold War, westerners volunteered to fight in armies against communist insurgencies, either as combatants or as trainers. Exiles from communist countries created insurgencies and fomented revolution at home. For decades they worked to slowly undermine communist rule. They did this, in addition to the West's official approach.

We should see large number of Muslim 20 somethings volunteering to join the Kurds to fight ISIS. And the US Government should help make possible. They need to put skin in the game, not just rhetoric. That means their children, who would 10 years old or younger on 9/11. If the sanctity of their beliefs are that important, and not just lip service, they should leap at the chance.

All put together, the core point is ownership. The ideas can be tried and failed. They could have little effect or burn out. But all 3 ideas presented here represent the mainstream Muslims, particularly in the west, taking ownership of the cancer in their midst that they are responsible for cleaning out (and if they don't recognize responsibility, stop offering excuses such as Israel/Palestine, the Wars, Saudi Arabia, etc, because that would be making excuses for other people).

But I don't think it will happen. Why? Consider this. Societies produce all sorts of people. Leaders. Followers. Academics, intellectuals and artists. Scientists. Workers. Athletes. And yes fighters. In the Western world, if you're a fighter with some sense of patriotism, what do you do? You join the armed forces. In the Muslim world? The fighters join tribal militias, sectarian militias or ISIS. What is left over is everybody else. The intellectuals. The people looking for a reliabile paycheck. The workers. Not the fighters.

Tales of US training in Iraq (and also Afghanistan) are filled with stories of how hard it was because the people they were training had no sense of the civil contract, of duty or social obligation. They were there because they needed a reliable job and maybe a home, the Army was recruiting, and they had nothing else going for them. And they were all for that job, until their life was on the line. That is why the US Trainers reported them such abysmal soldiers. Because they did not have the mind of soldiers. That is why a decade of training by NATO and billions spent of equipment amounted to nothing. That is why ISIS can defeat the Iraqi Army, despite being out numbered 10 to 1 in engagements. Because ISIS fighters ARE fighters who believe and will die trying to win, and the people they're fighting often are not. And when they do come up against a force that is - like the Kurds - they fare a lot worse.

This is the root of the Muslim militant fighter problem globally. The bad guys are getting all the good fighters and a decade of time and unlimited resources couldn't make 30,000 Iraqi troops with tanks beat 3000 ISIS fighters in pickups. There is going to be no final victory against militant islam - ISIS or not - anywhere in the world, until there manages to be fighters, on the side of civilization, that are capable of fighting and winning.

[Imatapir]

its true i have muslims in my country and know how they think..thats just my own xp..if u arent muslim they see you differently.. and they force their own group muslim agenda even though they are 1000 kilometers away from middle east muslims and never saw them

Yeah - it's still complete bullshit.
Welcome to perception bias.