Current playerbase can't handle Timewalking dungeons level of difficulty?

[Raugnaut]

Timewalker dungeons aren't challenging. They actually have far less mechanics than current dungeons.

I feel the Ilvl scaling is just off because of the Squish of this expac not translating well to older dungeons.

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If you had half a brain TBC heroics were easy and are far easier than current Mythic dungeons.

Current Mythic dungeons are a cake-walk mechanically - There are almost no stuns, CCs, or anything of the nature in any of them. What they have instead is a shit-ton of damage and tons of AoE flying around, with eternal mob-healing thrown in on a few packs.

[Mormolyce]

The TBC ones? Difficult isn't the word. Tedious is probably better.

I mean the only real challenge is that the trash mobs do a lot of damage. So you have to pull slowly, and if you fuck up there's a LOOOONG walk back. Bosses are a pushover and there are no mechanics to speak of (unless you count lots of stuns roots and slows from the trash because boy is that fun).

I've never really understood why some people think they should get a Nobel Prize for pulling trash one at a time. It was never complex or compelling gameplay, it was just boring.

If you want fun challenging dungeons, Cata is where it's at IMO. The trash is only as annoying as it needs to be and the boss mechanics are actually challenging. Do them wrong and you wipe. Not just mindlessly pulling trash mobs 1 by 1 because oh no they hurt.

Interrupts were still extremely important in wrath - one specific example will still kill players your average group (as they likely wouldnt focus the caster at the back)

The one in Ahk-Kahet? I remember that used to occasionally wipe ICC geared groups.

Not that they learned from the experience, they just pulled and AoEed and bitched when they died!

[Kalcheus]

What dungeons are you talking about? During WotLK, we never used CC even after getting to level 80 because the WotLK heroic dungeons lacked the difficulty they needed to be called "heroic".

That's completely not true. Wrath heroics didn't become cakewalks until around ToC when everyone started to overgear them. When the ICC 5-mans came out they were tough at first but the gear they rewarded made all the heroics easier. If you only did LFG heroics you only remember cakewalks, but if you actually grouped for heroics before 3.2 they weren't as easy.

[Mormolyce]

That's completely not true. Wrath heroics didn't become cakewalks until around ToC when everyone started to overgear them. When the ICC 5-mans came out they were tough at first but the gear they rewarded made all the heroics easier. If you only did LFG heroics you only remember cakewalks, but if you actually grouped for heroics before 3.2 they weren't as easy.

And HoR used to wipe pugs right up until the expansion ended.

That place was a little overtuned for the ilvl it admitted though, IMO.

[Life-Binder]

Cata TW is the easiest of the 3

what ???

BC TWs have a huge amount of stuns, CCs, ect that will cause your tank to sit on his hands for 15 seconds while the mobs go around and smash the face in on the rest of the group.

unless they buffed TBC TW just now thats not remotely true

everything is mass pull and faceroll and hits like a noodle


it was like you are describing in the actual TBC, but not in TBC TWing

[Deleted]

I usually faceroll TW dungeons with guild groups, but whenever I sign as solo we can struggle on even a single boss. Some people are just terrible and dont know any mechanics or they do zero dps

[Valicen]

That's completely not true. Wrath heroics didn't become cakewalks until around ToC when everyone started to overgear them. When the ICC 5-mans came out they were tough at first but the gear they rewarded made all the heroics easier. If you only did LFG heroics you only remember cakewalks, but if you actually grouped for heroics before 3.2 they weren't as easy.

What bollocks. I healed wrath dungeons on my disco priest early on in wrath I had warriors still thinking bubbles prevented rage generation. Sure, some stuff was a bit rough (loken, Ahn'kahet) but everything else was piss easy.
HoR could be tricky until people just learnt stack2win.
So yes, Keashaa is right. Heroics were easy. No CC was required. A comparison of two periods, pre LFG and post LFG, does not exclude the very fact that wotlk heroics were simply easy. Just like WoD heroics because cata heroics, which were a bit tricky, required too much effort from people.

[Witchblade77]

I haven't done any this week yet, but Cata time walking I had a few groups like OP describes. all of them on my holy pally. to the point where I started to have doubts about playing one and I had that particular character since BC. tried one last time and got group that made it feel easy.

group finder can be amazingly hit or miss, and since I've been a dirty casual for a while now, I cannot tell precisely what's causing the problem, just that some groups are a pleasure to run with while others seem to be made of used tissue paper. I'm not sure what they are doing or NOT doing to create such disparity, I only know that with some groups I can actualy relax into it, while with others, I'm left frantically spamming my fastest heal becasue anything else = dead someone.

[purebalance]

maybe you should join a guild and run the dungeons with your new friends

Doesn't matter. The people he is talking about should not be rewarded and yet they are.

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What dungeons are you talking about? During WotLK, we never used CC even after getting to level 80 because the WotLK heroic dungeons lacked the difficulty they needed to be called "heroic".
And you cannot compare BC heroic dungeons with today's dungeons. Mobs with 360° cleave were common (hello melees), tanks could not reach crit immunity by clicking "Hi I'm a tank". They had to collect the correct items (f*ck yeah prot paladin with spellpower weapon) and their set of abilities was fairly small (no "charge - thunderclap - hurray"). BC was just a completely different time.

Uh no you're talking about once you outgeared them. I was 80 wearing SWP gear(which was not replaced for the most part during leveling) and still had to cc in Halls of Lightning and groups wiped multiple times on Loken during the first month of WotLK. Please take your anecdotes of Ulduar era in heroics elsewhere.

[Bathory]

After trying to heal 5 timewalking dungeons this morning I gave up out of frustration.
I have to pop burst heal CD's on TRASH just to help us survive because people don't understand even the very basics of running a proper dungeon.

Running Timewalking Dungeons on a healer is appearently about educating the Tank and the DPS how an actual "challenging" dungeon should be played.
Dps standing in front of mobs, Ranged standing in melee range of mobs (?), Tanks pulling everything they see and not face enemies away from the group, etc. etc.

Timewalking dungeons aren't overtuned and very doable, even in a respactable pace without having to worry about wipes. But I don't think that the current playerbase can handle this very well at all...
Guess I'll just farm on a dps again just to avoid the frustration of being the only one in the group that works his butt off (aka healer) >.>

I agree, and I've tanked a lot of timewalker pugs when I'm not running with my normal group. As a player who did these dungeons when they were content, it is a bit jarring to see people fail these so miserably. Cata timewalkers were just brutal at times. People walking in expecting to zerg "End time" and were sorely mistaken. Mind you, not every group was bad, but my god, when it was bad, it was horrendously bad. There's a significant amount of players who are doing these, that just have no idea how to handle this (what I call normal) difficulty.

I can't blame them, the play style has moved away from what these require, but it's still a bit disheartening when I think about it. Hopefully this week is better. (AND HOPEFULLY THE DRAKE DROPS THIS TIME. 300+ BOSS KILLS DAMMIT)

[Crillam]

Only got problem tanking on my monk, seems like I never dodge anything and almost die of 3 mobs while my pala can pull whole rooms and not even lose hp.

[franto]

Got a dk who thought he can aoe whole rooms without def cds ..... Actually he "could", but every my cd/ring/hands/anything was on cd whole time ... (was harder than healing raids ...)

[Not jaylock at all]

Eh... I havent had any problems in tbc or wrath dungeons. Cata is were i usually have trouble with others. I usually carry groups anyways. My dps in tbc dungeons is 5-6k (bosses, no lust) as afflock. Most groups i have been in i see dps at 1-3k though there was a frost dk at 4k. Tbh these tbc dungeons are faceroll. They may have been hard back in the day but back in the day we were also 14-18(personally 16 when tbc came out). I didnt start playing till cata 4.2 and i have been playing since then. So from a timewalking vs what i went through in cata standpoint, it feels like we are overpowered by a little bit or bosses dont have enough hp. Example , i remember slabhide having 2-3 air phases now he barely has 1 same with crystalix rock worm thing that one shot if bads stood in his dolphin jump. Idk if its cuz i was a healer back then or what. I didnt start dpsing till mop and i didnt start raiding tiil 5.2. Forgive grammer, tired as f...

[Illiterate]

Roll a tank if you want to go at your own pace.

[Not jaylock at all]

In 630 gear? Probably.

In 660 gear? Nah.

For current mythics im 100% positive that its more difficult with 660 gear versus tbc heroics. For this to be comparable everyone has to be wearing 660 gear so pretty much youre looking at 25-40k dps max. Tank will most likely be at around 285-300k hp and heals should be at 15-25khps(dont know much about hps just guessing). Even with doing mechanics right fights are going to be really tough. Maybe with 695 gear it would be more comparable to tbc heroics. Getting put down to ilvl 95 with my gear im doing 5-6k dps (w/o lust) as afflock in tbc dungeons.

[Soeroah]

I've had trouble enough I feel iffy about tanking them. But earlier I did Black Morass and it was so easy I briefly wondered if it was tuned to the Normal mode instead of Heroic.

[Life-Binder]

mythics in 660 are definitely a bit harder then I recall TBC heroics being back in TBC (except maybe shadow labyrinth)


attitude is different tho, nowadays everyone expect to one shot even mythics regardless of gear or skill, but in TBC everyone knew to expect a serious hard run ahead with PuGs for lvl 70 heroics

[Deleted]

Dunno. I can do Mythic dungeons even with no healer in party on a DK so... :P

As far as TW go I haven't experienced any problems really. Both as dps and as a tank. I did all of old dungeons when they were relevant with glory achis and so on. Including TBC HC dungs before Black Temple and other raids were released.

[Gaidax]

In 630 gear? Probably.

In 660 gear? Nah.

The only TBC dungeon that was "challenging" was Shattered Halls and only really due to tons of trash.

Everything else was as faceroll as it gets, it just took more time because having 15 packs of trash between bosses with 2 abilities was a pinnacle of design apparently.

[anon5123]

I've not had a problem with any of the timewalking dungeons.

/shrug

They're stupidly easy, compared to their original iterations. I'd say, just a step above WoD heroics in terms of difficulty. Easily facerollable.