Query regarding Warr/Ret

[Yhcti]

Sup Guys,

So I finally hit gold cap and am officially bored. But then so thought of how hilarious itd be to do 91-10 with stage 6/6 items and armor and the heirlooms. So I'm going to make a melee to cleave it out.

Originally I'm thinking fury is going to be an absolutely freight train and will smashh everything but now I'm undecided on Ret also...!

So... Fury vs Ret. how is it looking?

Also curious on 2h vs smf. Assuming difference is minimal for this one. Mostly interested in how fury and ret compete at both low and high ilvl, solo, grouped, aoe and single etc... Whole lot basically.

[Valech]

First of all, Fury with low (read: below 30%) crit levels is more like the good night train then the freight train. Enrage and Raging blows are gated behind bloodthirst crits. And even with my 735+ gear I sometimes manage to not crit three times in a row. It´s rare but it is so annoying, that it sticks to the memory. Whilst leveling, Arms is considered more... consistent. Then again, I don´t know how much crit you reach with 6/6 weapons and heirlooms so... it might be viable. Bloodthirst gives a nice very small heal every four seconds, paired with victory rush, you almost never stop pulling.

Regarding tg vs smf: The rule of thumb is to stick with whatever weapons have the higher itemlevels. If you have two sets of weapons, go tg. tg does better in aoe situations and slight advantage smf has during execute (if that still exists at all) is pointless during leveling and 5 man dungeons. If you want monstrous executes in later raiding enviroment, you´d go arms anyway. All in all, difference is, as you said yourself, minimal.

in general, ret has just a lot more tricks up the sleeve. So soloing can be more comfortable whenever something unexpected happens.
Fury is the best single target dps specc warriors currently have. On top of that, Furys deal very bursty aoe damage thanks to Bladestorm and the meat cleaver mechanic. We fall off slightly in terms of consistent aoe. For consistent cleaving (2 targets) Arms takes the price by far.

The nice thing about Fury is, that you get right to the action. you dont need to spread four dots and build up two ressources and wait till bar x reached peak to do something. you charge in and smash. Then again, that could probably be said about ret as well. Can´t tell you anything about ret.

On a last note, this forum is currently infested by pretty large groups of whiners. Take every comment with caution.

[Deleted]

Ret is much easier than Fury in the fact that Fury is screwed by crit-less BT streaks. Ret would be my go-to for levelling with 3x 6/6 items.

[Bigbazz]

I've recently levelled another Warrior on Alliance, he is currently level 93. I did it as Arms and completely wrecked the damage meters in dungeons all the way up, but then quested from about 70-90 with not many dungeons... Then at 91 I bought an ilvl630 crafted weapon with Crit/Mast and a cheap Bleed Enchant, I also bought a Knights Badge for 80 gold (bonus armor tanking trinket, lol), the proc took me to 79% Crit at 91... Screw recklessness, this is better.

The character as Arms is a fucking wrecking machine, I was pulling 20k dps in Blood Slag Mines and executing for up to 80k, and Bladestorm is intense at this gear level even on single target. Out in the world the sweeping strikes damage from an execute crit hits hard enough to 1 shot a 2nd mob 2x over.. The rest of my gear is absolute shite, ilvl 510 sort of level, and the character is ruining stuff, I did not do this much dps even with my fully Mythic geared Fury Warrior main at the start of WOD.

If you want to wreck faces you'd probably be better going Arms, if you're gonna spend big bucks then get a Crit/Mastery weapon and a Skull of War trinket.


Edit : If you do try Warrior and Arms you need the Executor glyph, it ensures you never run out of rage since you will be constantly finishing mobs off with a single execute, in dungeons you will be swimming in rage from this glyph. Victory Rush glyph also helps out in the world for pulling large packs of mobs, since it gives you some pretty strong self healing.

[Toppy]

Ret would be more fun as fury is to crit dependent to be fun without really good gear. And arms is just a snore in general.

[Teranzil]

As the above post says, Arms would be the way to go if you decide on a Warrior. I leveled as Arms due to the less gear dependent style of play and it wrecks. Even if you were to gear up as Fury with crafted items the diminishing stats would crush your crit and you'd feel it after a few levels. As for Paladins, I main a Ret. It's relatively entertaining and you have a bunch of abilities to boost your survival if you run into trouble. Having a crit FoL after each kill is great for chain pulling/mass pulling everything in the zone.

[Gladio]

I think Glad stance leveling would be pretty dope, you still have big defensive CDs, your ST isn't gated by enrage and Glad cleave is real. It's also a much funner playstyle (imo) than Arms leveling. Arms leveling is a snoozefest, I almost died of boredom after like one quest.

[Rorke]

It doesn't matter what you play. I prefer Arms but Fury does better against Elite mobs and has better aoe overall with Meat Cleaver. Anybody good at this class can play both and level extremely fast with both.

Arms is just good because of Rend and Sweeping Strikes/Executes. It also feels better because everything flows instead of Fury where shit will just proc everywhere and you have to pick and choose which button you have to hit first.

[Toppy]

I think Glad stance leveling would be pretty dope, you still have big defensive CDs, your ST isn't gated by enrage and Glad cleave is real. It's also a much funner playstyle (imo) than Arms leveling. Arms leveling is a snoozefest, I almost died of boredom after like one quest.

Glad is a lv 100 talent.

[Gladio]

Glad is a lv 100 talent.

Ya I know that uhhh, I was just testing you! Prot leveling could still be fine though as you'd never die and kill entire areas at once.

[Bigbazz]

It doesn't matter what you play. I prefer Arms but Fury does better against Elite mobs and has better aoe overall with Meat Cleaver. Anybody good at this class can play both and level extremely fast with both.

Arms is just good because of Rend and Sweeping Strikes/Executes. It also feels better because everything flows instead of Fury where shit will just proc everywhere and you have to pick and choose which button you have to hit first.

That's not true at all while leveling, Arms is in a different league entirely now (Mastery Buffs earlier in expansion, recent 5% damage buff). Bladestorm hits like a train for Arms at this level and Mortal Strike can 1shot mobs if you have a crafted weapon, Execute + Sweeping strikes can 1 shot secondary mobs with just the sweeping strikes damage.. As Fury by the time you would have got a meatcleaver setup going you could have already killed all of the mobs as Arms.

I mean Fury would have higher Bladestorm burst, but not remotely close to the extent that it does at 100, and outside of Bladestorm Arms is just in a different league.

[Rorke]

That's not true at all while leveling, Arms is in a different league entirely now (Mastery Buffs earlier in expansion, recent 5% damage buff). Bladestorm hits like a train for Arms at this level and Mortal Strike can 1shot mobs if you have a crafted weapon, Execute + Sweeping strikes can 1 shot secondary mobs with just the sweeping strikes damage.. As Fury by the time you would have got a meatcleaver setup going you could have already killed all of the mobs as Arms.

I mean Fury would have higher Bladestorm burst, but not remotely close to the extent that it does at 100, and outside of Bladestorm Arms is just in a different league.

You're just arguing with me just to argue.

It really doesn't matter. Fury got a 5% buff to its enrage damage too. Fury is still better as single target and aoe because of how ridiculous SD execute damage is. Arms is just more consistent, more reliable and does better against 2 targets because of sweeping strikes. I mean outside of the inital Charge > (Rend) > CS > Mortal Strike > SD Execute > Whirlwind opening, Arms doesn't deal comparable damage to Fury. Fortunately, random mobs are already dead when its over but its still slow when you have to fight silver or elite mobs.

Again, It doesn't matter. I leveled all my 3 max level Warriors as Arms because its more fun and you get to press less buttons for the same exact outcome. If I leveled a Fury Warrior, I could probably faceroll just as fast as my Arms Warriors did but its just more tedious button mashing. No thanks.

[Maltore]

Fury is very crit dependent, but if you're running 2 6/6 crafted two-hands, plus a 6/6 craft chest/helm/legs in addition to upgraded heirlooms all with crit on them... you should have enough of crit to make it the freight train you're hoping for. Go crit+mastery if you can.

That said, Ret would also be a wrecking ball with that gear while leveling. So it just comes down to personal taste and what you want to get out of that character after you level.

In general, at end game raiding, Ret is slightly stronger than Fury for fights that can't take advantage of Bladestorm - which in fairness, there's many situations where BS is useful. If there's a burst mass AoE situation, you can't beat Bladestorm.

[Zabbs]

In general, at end game raiding, Ret is slightly stronger than Fury for fights that can't take advantage of Bladestorm - which in fairness, there's many situations where BS is useful. If there's a burst mass AoE situation, you can't beat Bladestorm.

I think this answers the OPs question best. They are both easy to level. Ret is slightly better at single target and has a lot of utility. Warriors have a lot of options for single target, aoe, and cleave. Ret has better burst single target and Warriors (Fury) have better burst AoE.

[Jaybee9084]

First of all, Fury with low (read: below 30%) crit levels is more like the good night train then the freight train.

I love you so much for that lol. Im gonna steal that ty

also ya this guy ^ is right. Arms would be a decent go, but fury just needs too much crit to function well.

try feral druid.

[Valech]

I think Glad stance leveling would be pretty dope, you still have big defensive CDs, your ST isn't gated by enrage and Glad cleave is real. It's also a much funner playstyle (imo) than Arms leveling. Arms leveling is a snoozefest, I almost died of boredom after like one quest.

you cannot level as glad.

[Bigbazz]

You're just arguing with me just to argue.

It really doesn't matter. Fury got a 5% buff to its enrage damage too. Fury is still better as single target and aoe because of how ridiculous SD execute damage is. Arms is just more consistent, more reliable and does better against 2 targets because of sweeping strikes. I mean outside of the inital Charge > (Rend) > CS > Mortal Strike > SD Execute > Whirlwind opening, Arms doesn't deal comparable damage to Fury. Fortunately, random mobs are already dead when its over but its still slow when you have to fight silver or elite mobs.

Again, It doesn't matter. I leveled all my 3 max level Warriors as Arms because its more fun and you get to press less buttons for the same exact outcome. If I leveled a Fury Warrior, I could probably faceroll just as fast as my Arms Warriors did but its just more tedious button mashing. No thanks.

I disagree because I've already experienced leveling up 2 Fury Warriors, one of them was fully Mythic geared and running 60% crit at level 90, the other was mixed Prideful Gladiator (550) and Heroic SOO (569). Granted the quality of the weapon was still some 50ilvl behind the crafted weapon but the rest of the gear was in a completely different league. Thing is your estimation of Arms vs Fury single target is pretty damn off, they are very close in a lot of situations and Arms will always pull ahead on short fights due to execute being such a large contributor, and while leveling up all fights will be short.

Bloodthirst doing no damage at all and enrage RNG just makes things more frustrating. Really it doesn't matter which spec you play as all 3 will be very strong with good gear, but when it comes to which does the most dps then it is Arms.. Like I said I was doing 20k dps in dungeons, that's about 4x (or more) dps than what most other players were doing in the same groups, the fact that you're Execute critting bosses for 80k damage (way more than that if you go full out) is just hilarious.

FWIW at low gear levels on bosses you should Charge > Rend > CS > MS > Bladestorm (with cooldowns) for maximum effect, Bladestorm is a considerable dps gain on single target, better than Avatar/Bloodbath if you're not high on mastery. Group depending that will leave you will CS coming back up as the boss is about 20% in time for CS + Execute, in this scenario you just don't stand a chance as Fury, compared to Arms.

[Deleted]

I've recently levelled another Warrior on Alliance, he is currently level 93. I did it as Arms and completely wrecked the damage meters in dungeons all the way up, but then quested from about 70-90 with not many dungeons... Then at 91 I bought an ilvl630 crafted weapon with Crit/Mast and a cheap Bleed Enchant, I also bought a Knights Badge for 80 gold (bonus armor tanking trinket, lol), the proc took me to 79% Crit at 91... Screw recklessness, this is better.

The character as Arms is a fucking wrecking machine, I was pulling 20k dps in Blood Slag Mines and executing for up to 80k, and Bladestorm is intense at this gear level even on single target. Out in the world the sweeping strikes damage from an execute crit hits hard enough to 1 shot a 2nd mob 2x over.. The rest of my gear is absolute shite, ilvl 510 sort of level, and the character is ruining stuff, I did not do this much dps even with my fully Mythic geared Fury Warrior main at the start of WOD.

If you want to wreck faces you'd probably be better going Arms, if you're gonna spend big bucks then get a Crit/Mastery weapon and a Skull of War trinket.


Edit : If you do try Warrior and Arms you need the Executor glyph, it ensures you never run out of rage since you will be constantly finishing mobs off with a single execute, in dungeons you will be swimming in rage from this glyph. Victory Rush glyph also helps out in the world for pulling large packs of mobs, since it gives you some pretty strong self healing.

Have to agree on This - arms Are crazy, and i Got 2 of Them myself (1x horde and 1x alliance).
I also got a paladin with ret as One of My specs. And it is alot about RNG procs that that decide if you Are gonna burst. Same with fury warriors that depends on BT to crit and others procs.
As arms you get what you get - only procs you will see is from sudden death talent - which I personally love. In Legion it changes a bit, so slam has 20% chance to reset CS (freight train inc!) but we lose sudden death - so still only 1 proc you need to be aware of - rest is about skills (and gear..)

[Yhcti]

Awesome responses guys. Just to throw a spanner into the works... What about rogue? Tbh I'll mainly be making this class just to lolstomp 91-100 dungeons with the 6/6 gear as I find it hilarious. Sobquick cleave/on demand burst is ideal. But yeah it's tough over warr, rogue, ret. I have them all at 100 but only really play my unholy dk.

[Bigbazz]

Awesome responses guys. Just to throw a spanner into the works... What about rogue? Tbh I'll mainly be making this class just to lolstomp 91-100 dungeons with the 6/6 gear as I find it hilarious. Sobquick cleave/on demand burst is ideal. But yeah it's tough over warr, rogue, ret. I have them all at 100 but only really play my unholy dk.

I've no experience with Rogue in high end gear in 90+ dungeons, I levelled mine early on as Combat and aside from Mythic Heirloom his gear was meh, but I've never seen a rogue come close to a geared Warrior/Pala in those situations, these 2 classes really dominate at this level. Seen plenty of Mages that will dominate boss dps, but can't keep up on trash, you might be better asking that in the rogue forums however.