Do you understand the words

[Krekal]

I never understand the point of talking louder as if someone would understand better then.

[BuckSparkles]

I never understand the point of talking louder as if someone would understand better then.

Context.

Talking louder indicates some level of importance or gravity to the words behind it.

For example, somebody saying quietly "I am upset." Is like, okay? Who gives a shit?

While somebody LOUDLY yelling at you "I AM UPSET." might warrant more attention.

[May90]

These kind of differences remind me on why I would not want to travel to another country.

You try to be polite and another culture reads it as you being a dick and take offense.

I feel like I wouldn't even want to interact with somebody in another country in fear of that.

I don't think your fears are warranted. For the most part, people understand that in talking to a foreigner there will be cultural barrier, and they do not hold up foreigners to the same standards as they do each other. Even in Japan, a country with one of the weirdest and highest context cultures, I didn't have much trouble talking to people: sure, I didn't always behave the "right" way, but they didn't expect me to either.

[BuckSparkles]

I don't think your fears are warranted. For the most part, people understand that in talking to a foreigner there will be cultural barrier, and they do not hold up foreigners to the same standards as they do each other. Even in Japan, a country with one of the weirdest and highest context cultures, I didn't have much trouble talking to people: sure, I didn't always behave the "right" way, but they didn't expect me to either.

I just wouldn't want to piss off or make people upset.

I try to treat strangers with respect in person until they give me a reason otherwise.

[May90]

I just wouldn't want to piss off or make people upset.

I try to treat strangers with respect in person until they give me a reason otherwise.

You know, while cultural differences are large, generally treating people with respect will make them respect you as well: even if you make some outrageous mistakes, people see your attitude and treat you the same way. I've been in many countries, and I don't think I've ever really made anyone upset due to a cultural misbehavior. You probably would be fine wherever you go.

[belfpala]

Hahahaha... yeah, or things like "can you look what time is it for me?", and then the person looks and doesn't tell you, because you only told them to look at it.

That's not the nuance I was looking for.

A better example would be one of my first jobs. I screwed something up. My chef just gave me a look. I felt like I was going to die, but in that look I saw that I also killed him.

[shadowmouse]

The disconnect between high and low context is difficult to set out in a thread like this. You can come to a country like China and it might take years for you to develop a feeling for it because there are so many other things that seem to establish differences. When you get off of the airplane and you realize that everything is in writing that doesn't seem in any way familiar, when the people as far as you can see are Chinese and you're not, all of those things are different enough that it will take a long time for you to get around to wondering what that person really meant be their words or actions because you're trying to get over that "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore" sensation.

My chef just gave me a look. I felt like I was going to die, but in that look I saw that I also killed him.

Even that doesn't quite capture the difference. Even in a low context environment, we have our symbols and body language. One thing I notice in this example is that it is individual -- the pronouns are I and him. My (quasi adoptive) daughter is studying in Bonn right now and when she writes about things she tends to put them in terms of groups. You felt you let him down, but someone more high context might have said they let the group down. A low context person might say the same thing, but mean it in the context of being a team player, while the high context person might take being part of the group as a given.

My fiancee just sent me a message asking if I'd eaten yet. It is about lunch time here and it would be easy to read it as just what she wrote. Really, it is closer to the English "how are you" or "what's up". Neither of those phrases is literal, both provide a conversational opening, but that's about as far as it goes. Likewise, I might meet someone on the street here and they might use the question of whether I'd eaten as a polite greeting and probably nothing more; however, she uses that as her first message of the day because she is expressing concern for me. Her concern is both direct (kind of a "hey, you had a migraine yesterday, are you alright?") and a more generalized demonstration that she is showing the kind of interest in my well-being that is "proper" since we're engaged. That's part of how we get by on machine translation for some things and in phrasal Chinese for others, it is because the words themselves are just one part of the exchange.

Trying to explain outside of the right environment is a bit like trying to discuss blue while looking at a black and white photo.

[Nanaboostme]

My professor wrote the original Rush Hour Incoming 3rd sequel as well

[Zelk]

My professor wrote the original Rush Hour Incoming 3rd sequel as well

Can you ask him to stop please?

[Nanaboostme]

Can you ask him to stop please?

He wrote the original story and created the characters for the Original Rush Hour. All different screenplay writers for the other sequels. He just gets credit and some of the profit every time another sequel is made. aka (Characters created by.. or Executive Producer)

The only person I'd tell to stop is Michael Bay who also went to my school.

[belfpala]

The disconnect between high and low context is difficult to set out in a thread like this. You can come to a country like China and it might take years for you to develop a feeling for it because there are so many other things that seem to establish differences. When you get off of the airplane and you realize that everything is in writing that doesn't seem in any way familiar, when the people as far as you can see are Chinese and you're not, all of those things are different enough that it will take a long time for you to get around to wondering what that person really meant be their words or actions because you're trying to get over that "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore" sensation.

How about that moment I got off the plane in Thailand and the airport guards were carrying AK-47s?

My fiancee just sent me a message asking if I'd eaten yet. It is about lunch time here and it would be easy to read it as just what she wrote. Really, it is closer to the English "how are you" or "what's up". Neither of those phrases is literal, both provide a conversational opening, but that's about as far as it goes. Likewise, I might meet someone on the street here and they might use the question of whether I'd eaten as a polite greeting and probably nothing more; however, she uses that as her first message of the day because she is expressing concern for me. Her concern is both direct (kind of a "hey, you had a migraine yesterday, are you alright?") and a more generalized demonstration that she is showing the kind of interest in my well-being that is "proper" since we're engaged. That's part of how we get by on machine translation for some things and in phrasal Chinese for others, it is because the words themselves are just one part of the exchange.

I could take "have you eaten yet" in many ways. If it came from my mother, I might take it to be as you suggested, a question of wellness. If it came from a co-worker, I might take it as, dude, go chill for a while. If it came from a female stranger, I might take it as her hitting on me.

That aside. I had some amusing conversations through Babblefish. I'll see if I can find some. (this was many years ago, not sure if I still have the files stored)

[shadowmouse]

I could take "have you eaten yet" in many ways. If it came from my mother, I might take it to be as you suggested, a question of wellness. If it came from a co-worker, I might take it as, dude, go chill for a while. If it came from a female stranger, I might take it as her hitting on me.

That's exactly why I say that trying to talk about this outside of the particular environment is like trying to explain blue while looking at a black and white picture. That's also what makes the lack of understanding, particularly among low context people working with high context, such a problem. It is easy to blow it off or to say that we do it too, because we do. Yet, the difference is in how central things are to a particular style of communication and how many levels of information are expected to be present. We have layers of meaning, sarcasm, puns and more. They often surprise Chinese, because they have been taught that English is low context. As one student said to me: "we used to think that you didn't have a sense of humor, six months later we noticed that you tell jokes all the time but we didn't understand enough to know that." Every example that I bring up may have an apparent analog in English or the US, but the differences are where it becomes important. I see my students go overseas or the next group of expats arrive here, and even more than language it is this difference that can lead most easily to misunderstandings.

How about that moment I got off the plane in Thailand and the airport guards were carrying AK-47s?

[joking] See, it worked. Just by context you understood: "these guys may have little to no humor about jokes involving the king, nude selfies in temples, or what they see as inappropriate tattoos."

He wrote the original story and created the characters for the Original Rush Hour.

Cool, pass along my compliments. It has been awhile since I watched the movies but I think that they catch a number of classic disconnects rather well.

[belfpala]

[joking] See, it worked. Just by context you understood: "these guys may have little to no humor about jokes involving the king, nude selfies in temples, or what they see as inappropriate tattoos."

And don't even dare trying to touch พระพุทธมหาสุวรรณปฏิมากร (yes I had to look that up).

Yet, the difference is in how central things are to a particular style of communication and how many levels of information are expected to be present. We have layers of meaning, sarcasm, puns and more.

Snipping out that part. Just within the US, I'm seen as abrasive in my home town from my years of living in NYC. In NYC I was seen as passive. So, I mixed the two.

[Deletedaccount1]

Talking louder usually means that you are losing the argument.

Or your hearing.

[Kurioxan]

Talking louder usually means that you are losing the argument.

Not really, most of the times it means you feel like the person is not understanding what you are saying, leading to exasperation leading to talking louder.
Sometimes this means you are losing the argument, most of the times not really

OT: soooo, men talk in low context, women talk in high context, this is where a lot of issues come from? nothing new!
Odd to date someone and not be able to talk with them, the only situations i've done that is where both of us knew either wanted to pursue the relationship beyond the sexual and with a time limit, to be engaged to someone you can hardly communicate to seems like a recipe for disaster, but i wish you the best of luck and joy!

[shadowmouse]

soooo, men talk in low context, women talk in high context, this is where a lot of issues come from? nothing new!

Some might say that, but in this case it is literally that she is Chinese (high context) and I'm American (low context).

i wish you the best of luck and joy!

Thanks, depending on how things are counted, we've been together around three years now and it seems to work.

Snipping out that part. Just within the US, I'm seen as abrasive in my home town from my years of living in NYC. In NYC I was seen as passive. So, I mixed the two.

That's just within the US and largely within just a couple of languages (I recall mainly English and Spanish for you). So, I'm sure you can imagine how that gets multiplied in the business setting when the differences are larger and language differences more extreme. Now, throw that into something like contract interpretation, with extra bits like terms of art. Yup.

That's where I'd say that we all benefit from trying to be aware of the difference. The joke is that the US and the UK are two countries divided by a common language, but in business or politics it has the potential to be less of a joke. The various parties are trying to communicate, they seem to be using the same language, either can look things up in the dictionary ... and yet communication ends up being less than precise.

[ls-]

Oh, being a person from high-context country/culture, many years ago, when I left Russia I was taught to explain things in more words, so people could understand me better, now, when I speak Russian, and/or talk to Russians from time to time, they usually see me as a retarded and way too talkative person That's why Russians are so annoyed by, for example, Brits, who live and study/work in Russia, the way they speak Russian is almost always a word by word translation from English into Russian, or somewhat close to it, and it's waaay too polite, long and mundane, Russians dun like it.

Me not being able to express much by saying little annoys me quite much tbh, I haven't been to Russia for way too long, however, hanging out with Latinos helps me to regain my high-context-ness.

On the other hand, peeps from high-context countries are usually seen as rude, tactless barbarians by people from low-context countries.

[Whitehatter]

Make English the universal language .. problem solved :P .... im joking of course before you get offended :P

พระพุทธมหาสุวรรณปฏิมากร = Golden Buddha statue .. lol i wish i had google translate in my head, mind you saying that some words sound different to how they are spelt. but how the hell do u start with trying to pronounce พระพุทธมหาสุวรรณปฏิมากร lol

[Rafoel]

I read the thread, article in the link, and watched the video, and I'm still unable to tell whether my country's culture is low or high-context.

[shadowmouse]

but how the hell do u start with trying to pronounce พระพุทธมหาสุวรรณปฏิมากร

Phra Phuttha Maha Suwan Patimakon, of course! Wasn't it obvious?

Make English the universal language .. problem solved

While it isn't official, English often does get used as a fill in. I'm happy enough with that, the squabbles over an official language would be ridiculous. China has trouble getting everyone to use Putonghua, and that's just one country trying to standardize things internally.

and I'm still unable to tell whether my country's culture is low or high-context

Well, Fourecks and Bhangbhangduc are special cases because of the way things work on Discworld, but if another country were involved we could try to figure it out. Joking aside, if you're curious then what country are you from? Maybe we can find it.

More generally, high and low context are part of one model. I've talked about that one since it is one that I'm better able to compare to things that I've seen, but the Lewis model ends up using three points to account for a wider range of differences.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-lewis-model-2013-9


Here's a more general discussion of attempts to categorize behavior, one that may help put the various models in perspective:
http://www.crossculture.com/latest-n...-of-behaviour/