[LOGS HELP] Discipline looking to improve

[Djriff]

Lets keep the borderline personal insults to a minimum please.

On topic, when I progressed as disc on gorefiend at around 710 ilvl I had little problems healing the 5 essences up in the stomach. Usually I would penance FH FH and it would be near full, then I'd move onto the next one. I did that for the first 3 and the last 2 I used heal to conserve some mana for feast phase. At the time we were running 5 healers, 2 resto druids, 2 hpallies, and me as disc. We had 1 resto druid sac himself on the pull so that we would always have at least 1 hpally in. Our hpallies popped wings in the stomach and could basically solo heal the essences with beacon abuse. Our other resto druid was the weakest for healing essences, but even then we had very little trouble healing them if it was the Resto druid and myself. The main thing is that you don't need to heal them to full, just to around 80%, when they come up ranged classes can just execute them quickly and it's a non issue.

[Deleted]

Looking at one of the logs on gorefiend where he was inside, the issue was most likely that he isnt having any AA uptime inside the stomache, wich does help alot on essence healing. Doesn´t even have to be 5 stacks.

[Djriff]

Something I did to fix that issue was holding my first AA until the debuff went out. If I wasn't going in on the first set I could safely pop it and have it up for the second set.

[PosPosPos]

In an immediate emergency with penance down and weakened soul there's no other choice than flash heal (coupled if necessary with pain suppression). But in a similar situation where the player's going to live a bit longer clarity of will is better for both mana efficiency and avoiding sniping - probably 1 or 2 other healers are also healing that player and the CoW doesn't get in their way as they fill the health bar back up.

Comparing the realistic problems of casting CoW versus FH there gives us strengths and weaknesses for both - if the player dies during the cast Flash Heal is better since there will be less lost time. If the player receives a Lay on Hands or otherwise blast sniping heal Clarity of Will is better, since it avoids some overhealing.

Regardless of that, when 32 Flash Heals are cast on a single pull there are bigger problems that should be dealt with - either a lack of trust in other healers, a lack of healers, poor following of mechanics to take unnecessary damage, and the like.

If you need an emergency heal that often, CoW is terrible for that and SG is better purely for that purpose.

- - - Updated - - -

You obviously forget progression on this boss. Not everyone plays at a high level. You falsely assume every raid will execute the optimal spell casting each pull. If the priest has to compensate for another play that badly - 32 flash heals IS way too many - then they're going to oom.

1) Who cares if it's progression or not at this stage of the expac? We are talking about 795 rings, 730 ilvl+++ going into the encounter etc.

2) Optimal spell casting? The only optimal spell casting that matters is the disc. Not the druid. For a simple reason - this thread is about the disc, not his healer partners. And the optimal spell casting is penance > flash on penance's cd.

3) Oom? You only oom if you are geared to parse meters by dropping spirit on all gear(except legendary ring). Nobody in the right mind drops spirit on progression, or not at least have some spirit pieces in bags to swap out for the longer fights.

For reference, 3 down phases at 5 essences each is approximately 2 each assuming you attempt to heal every essence instead of some sort of split. Having to heal every essences yourself in a guild where progression is presently Gorefiend is less an error of disc priest execution and more an error of poor raid team healing. Sorry, that should be obvious (even to someone like you who holds a personal grudge against anyone who posts something contrary to your opinion).

Nope. I triple/quad flash healed each essence on progression so our resto shaman/resto druid can focus on feast, and didn't oom. There's no need to "split up" the healing when disc priests comfortably carries this mechanic any day. You call it a grudge, reasonable people call it efficient splitting up of tasks.

If you oom, that means you are poorly prepared for the encounter, hands down.

Healing properly as a group during progression is more valuable then going hero-mode and trying to heal all 5 essences each stomach phase. Yes, druids popped inc to do it during progression. Yes, a holy paladin trivializes it - but, please, do your research before you become childish and personal. Recent raid comp this group? hpriest/disc/sham/druid/druid. There's going to be a discernible issue healing in stomach for them judging by the quality of play of the entire healing core.

Nope. Read the previous statements. It's called efficient distribution of tasks. Let the people best suited to raid heal do raid healing, and let the people best suited to single target focus more on healing essences.

Bottom line is, your elitist attitude is not useful for helping players doing progression now. Get off your high horse. Discontinue your personal quips since that's about all you bring to the table.

And your poor theorycrafting is useful? Rofl. You obviously didn't even know that Gorefiend was about healing essences, then didn't know that disc/holy paladin carries essence healing and finally now you are just scrambling to pretend you know anything about the encounter. Keep digging the hole deeper.

Again, if you are not knowledgeable on the subjects involved, nobody will fault you for keeping quiet. But if you walk into an advice thread giving bad advice(as have several other posters in this thread already acknowledging you are just simply wrong), then prepared to get called out for it.

Edit: Just for you, I went back and checked my Flash Heal casts on progression - I cast it 37 times in the fight.

[Deleted]

I haven't seen a single situation where I would need to use CoW so far, and today we killed Gorefiend. That might change for Velhari though...

[Deleted]

I haven't seen a single situation where I would need to use CoW so far, and today we killed Gorefiend. That might change for Velhari though...

If you don´t have a holy pala in your roster then you definitely should. Even with a holy palading i still go CoW on tyrant as tank damage in p3 is quite insane (depense on tanks class and skills aswell). If you end up struggeling on tyrant in p3 with tank healing i would even suggest as to put yourself out of the group so you dont have to move (as casting cow with movement is shit) and spam tanks whole time. Just make sure you don´t stand where edict is going to be dropped. And have another healer help out on tank healing (normally we just got a holy pala with beacon) and 1 who only focusses on raid.

But you got some easy bosses ahead of you now, so i wouldn´t worry to much about it atm . Gz on your kill!

Edit: I also noticed you had some pulls on socrethar and that you are 5 healing it. This is really not needed, the healing requirement is quite low. I 3 heal it, but i wouldn´t ever suggest more then 4 on progress.

[Yunzi]

There's no other situation even remotely similar to p3 Tyrant for tank damage in the entire instance - for progression with some not-great tanks who didn't even have ideal trinkets (no Kilrogg trinket) I cast two spells in p3 - Clarity of Will and PWS (on tanks). Even defensive penance is dubious to use there, unless you can time it when the tank has health to refill, and forget about archangel - the very moment you try to sneak in some Holy Fire is the precise time that the tank can be one-shot.

With better tanks you can use a more standard archangel rotation, but that's the conservative approach, and enables Disc priests their one true moment of heroism in the instance, where it feels like only by a Disc priest using exactly that method does the fight succeed.

[Djriff]

CoW is also useful on Xhul as you can CoW and PW: S 2 people to split soak a black hole and they won't take any damage even if they don't use some cheat death type of mechanic. It's also useful when you're 2 tanking as the tank damage can be rather spikey and CoW helps smooth it out, even with a holy pally. It could be used on Fel Lord if you have slightly undergeared tanks, Phase 2 may wreck them even through CD's.

[PosPosPos]

CoW is also useful on Xhul as you can CoW and PW: S 2 people to split soak a black hole and they won't take any damage even if they don't use some cheat death type of mechanic. It's also useful when you're 2 tanking as the tank damage can be rather spikey and CoW helps smooth it out, even with a holy pally. It could be used on Fel Lord if you have slightly undergeared tanks, Phase 2 may wreck them even through CD's.

Nowadays CoW is pretty useless with the ilvl upgrades where everyone walks into the back bosses with 735 - 740+++ ilvl and have a health pool so huge that one PW:S is enough to cover majority of the damage.

Heck, one shield is enough nowadays to prevent cheat death from proccing when soaking blackholes.

[Djriff]

True, especially with AA on. I was speaking mainly for those still progressing on it that won't have 735+ ilvls. It's also good if by some weird chance you don't have a rogue, dk, or warlock. Unglyphed Sac still works.

[PosPosPos]

True, especially with AA on. I was speaking mainly for those still progressing on it that won't have 735+ ilvls. It's also good if by some weird chance you don't have a rogue, dk, or warlock. Unglyphed Sac still works.

Well, they are going to have a lot more problems than just blackhole soaking, like the adds running amok.

[Djriff]

Some of us like a challenge :P

[PosPosPos]

Some of us like a challenge :P

Not sure there's a guild that will deliberately omit rogue dks and warlocks on progression just for the difficulty(not even sure how a guild like that got that far).

Or unequip a few pieces of gear to drop from 735+++ to 720.

But you can try and find some and then tell us about it.

[Deleted]

But you got some easy bosses ahead of you now, so i wouldn´t worry to much about it atm . Gz on your kill!

Thanks

Edit: I also noticed you had some pulls on socrethar and that you are 5 healing it. This is really not needed, the healing requirement is quite low. I 3 heal it, but i wouldn´t ever suggest more then 4 on progress.

This is just a question of lack of OS flexibility. None of our healers had a *serious* DPS spec - I just learned to play CoP mastery build (and I even have the gear) so I might be the first one, but vision of me speccing shadow on our raid feels unreal so far looking at how much healing I can produce - and that's even greater with Council trinket, but I won't even think about using that item for mana-intensive fight like Gorefiend (at least for now). Perhaps if I drop the mastery-multi cape for mastery-spirit one... I'll see.

I'm still thinking whether I should be using Mindbender as I switched to it by accident like two weeks ago, and started yielding greater overall healing, but many good discipline priest use Solace and I'm quite confused.

[Pearl1717]

I'm still thinking whether I should be using Mindbender as I switched to it by accident like two weeks ago, and started yielding greater overall healing, but many good discipline priest use Solace and I'm quite confused.

Mostly personal preference, but MB used on CD is generally better and easier to use. Top parsing disc priests use both, its w.e you want to use.

[Djriff]

Well some of it is personal preference, there's also haste to consider. MB doesn't have a haste cap (that anyone can see). At 20% haste i was getting ~23 attacks per cast which is more mana than PW: Solace can give me even when cast perfectly. When you combine PW: Solace with the DP trinket, things get a bit skewed though.

[Pearl1717]

Well some of it is personal preference, there's also haste to consider. MB doesn't have a haste cap (that anyone can see). At 20% haste i was getting ~23 attacks per cast which is more mana than PW: Solace can give me even when cast perfectly. When you combine PW: Solace with the DP trinket, things get a bit skewed though.

I think MB overall is better, especially with DP. But, mana is hardly an issue with the gear levels we have now and especially with a M DP. You can still do well with either, but MB is better since it returns more mana and adds a fair bit of dps to the raid too.

[Deleted]

- and that's even greater with Council trinket, but I won't even think about using that item for mana-intensive fight like Gorefiend (at least for now). Perhaps if I drop the mastery-multi cape for mastery-spirit one... I'll see.

You should easily be able to heal longer and more mana intensive fights without swiching out DSI and DP trinket. I think swiching to Mindbender will also help you on this. Its pretty clear it gives back more mana and is easier to use. Tho few of your logs where you used mindbender, you do need to watch you keep it on cooldown, i see you sometimes delayed it by 30 sec or even by 1 whole min. Get a good WA/TMW for it.

I also feel you on the Offspec part thing. I myself have about a set for both cop and AS but it just never gets used at they just rather always use a disc even on farm to have easy quick kills. Tho we never overheal, a healer gets sat out. But if you dont have the roster to sit anyone out its really alot better to have one of your healers (not disc or pala) go shitty offspec then overheal an encounter imo. Better to get that bit extra dps then non needed healing.



Edit: On the point about mana needed on certain fights. I just checked your Gorefiend kill and you only just went under half your mana. On Council wich i also consider more mana intensive, the lowest you went is 15% and you also delayed MB by a whole min some point. And this is both even without a mana potion on both, thats huge. Were you using IG on both of these? So i shouldnt worry to much, clearly you had way to much mana and should easily be able to drop some and use DP+DSI next time and in future fights.

Also i notice you use Minbender right at start of the fight almost every log i saw. Its abit of a waste, better wait about 20 secs before casting it. Also to make it line up with Power infusion.

Just to show you on Gore:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ht=8&spell=100

[Djriff]

I think MB overall is better, especially with DP. But, mana is hardly an issue with the gear levels we have now and especially with a M DP. You can still do well with either, but MB is better since it returns more mana and adds a fair bit of dps to the raid too.

Overall, yes. However on gorefiend I recommend running Solace over Mindbender. You can run MB just fine but if you get sent in to the stomach while MB is up, you're semi screwed as nothing lives long enough in the stomach to take advantage of it. I would also recommend solace for Iskar, but you can fix that by holding it if the boss is close to P2. MB does a bunch of damage on the shadow add as well.

You should easily be able to heal longer and more mana intensive fights without swiching out DSI and DP trinket. I think swiching to Mindbender will also help you on this. Its pretty clear it gives back more mana and is easier to use. Tho few of your logs where you used mindbender, you do need to watch you keep it on cooldown, i see you sometimes delayed it by 30 sec or even by 1 whole min. Get a good WA/TMW for it.

I listed out all my WA's awhile ago, most work with both Disc and Shadow. Link

[Deleted]

Overall, yes. However on gorefiend I recommend running Solace over Mindbender. You can run MB just fine but if you get sent in to the stomach while MB is up, you're semi screwed as nothing lives long enough in the stomach to take advantage of it. I would also recommend solace for Iskar, but you can fix that by holding it if the boss is close to P2. MB does a bunch of damage on the shadow add as well.

I run MB on every fight, mainly cause even if its better on gore to run Solace, i probably wont keep it on cooldown enough as i cant even remember last time i even used Solace (as in not used to it). On Iskar i get what you mean but i just make my pet attack a new target, even if he ends up missing a few hits, my mana is fine anyway.