Manager at Carrier Air Conditioner tells workers 1400 jobs are moving to Mexico

[Paranoid Android]

Well for Trump that should be 1,400 less illegals coming across the border. Amirite?

Seriously reading first page and what I always contend that people who bitch about minimum wage and especially about say fast food/service and retail industry have to admit that these are the only jobs left. It used to be that a job at Carrier, in my home state I believe, were the backbone of people who could get a job to support themselves and more importantly a family.

[Deleted]

As an American I'm curious about how the unions over there operate. Just to put it out there, I'm kind of in the middle on this one but in America the unions do have a couple of flaws:

- Some unions segregate according to race, for example prior to the rise of unions, blacks were very active in the construction industry. Now though it is extremely rare for a union of construction workers to invite black workers in.

- Union workers *have* to buy American products. Like if you purchase a japanese car, you can literally get kicked out and have nowhere to work.

- Some (not all) unions allow very dangerous or crazy behavior at jobs, such as sleeping on the job being ok, coming in to work drunk, leaving work while still on the clock, for example. Does this stuff happen there?

- Unions have an entry barrier for the new guy's where they typically do the hardest work, while at the same time if the work is limited, they won't let the new guy's have it so the older guy's get all the hours and collect the pay. They also commonly do not protect young guys, for example if a company is at a cross roads and either needs to lower the pay of all employees, or do lay offs, the union will opt for them to do lay offs and make sure it's new guy's.

How does Sweden work around these types of things?

It's crazy. Here unions are protecting everyone, less than 10% people are part of them but more than 90% benefit from it. Sometime they're a bit overprotective (far-left).
http://www.unibocconi.it/wps/wcm/con...df?MOD=AJPERES
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=fr

[alexw]

There are people, such as yourself, who dismiss anything that is critical of the agendas they support regardless of its validity.

That link has a lot of information, there's simply no way you've read it all if you even read any.

But you're belligerently dismissing it simply because it comes from "the other side".

Would you imagine that the unions themselves would publicize evidence of their corruption, their political influence, or of their destructive impact on business?

Source-shaming is low brow.

You could, instead, pick something they say and offer up a counter-argument and I'll read it.

I am dismissing it because it is a blatantly partisan organization that is attempting to hide its partisanship via astroturfing. It doesn't even make an attempt to portray anything in an impartial manner. So why on earth would one seek out unbiased information from such an obviously biased source? And no source shaming is not what I have done. What I have done is point out to everyone else that that is a site that will not, and does not attempt to paint a true picture of unions and that if they have any sense they will skip it. It would be like discussing the pro's and con's of smoking with the cigarette industry - a waste of time. You do yourself no favors either by stooping to such propagandism.

FYI I do believe that there is SOME corruption in unions just like in other parts of society and that like everything else they are not perfect. But that is it.

[Gaidax]

Unions are corrupt to the core, backstage deals there are staggering.

[Sheperd]

While community colleges aren't regarded as high as regular universities, that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad. The great majority of people who get a bachelor's or even a masters could have gone to a community college for an associates and ended up in the same position. Yeah, there are many community colleges that are regarded poorly, but they tend to be the exception, not the rule.

I would argue that its better to go to a community college then end up in a for profit college and have then fuck you up for the next 20+ years. Don't make the same mistake I did.

[Rennadrel]

Because here (in Germany), unions negotiate deals with the whole sector. In the US (or so I've been told by my professor), they only negotiate deals for members of said union, so it's basically...a business. Collect fees from workers, so they are in a better negotiating position to demand for money.

I'm not sure if this is legit, this is something I've been told by my professor, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in that case I'm not surprised at all why unions in the US fail and are unpopular.

That is pretty much how unions work in North America. It's a bastard system that is abused by people who are lazy and don't value the system that exists which not only protects their jobs, but ensures that they get paid significantly more than anyone not working in a unionized business. Granted, you also have flip side management, where the management and executives are only in it to line their pockets off the backs of the laborers and skilled people while they sit at their desk and count the cash flowing in. Unions are terrible in North America because they were not implemented the same way they are in Europe, so over time people just started getting greedy and using their right to strike as justification for being both overpaid and lazy. If done right, there is nothing wrong with workers unions, they aren't done right because the unions protect terrible people, those who are lazy and are just in it for the money and push that fact upon their employer knowing that the employer can do nothing about those people because it is part of their collective bargaining agreement.

- - - Updated - - -

Unions are corrupt to the core, backstage deals there are staggering.

No worse than all the corporate CEO's and executives who line their pockets with billions of dollars a year off the backs of all those "corrupt" unionized workers who actually make their companies money on a daily basis. Please, the greed and corruption starts at the top. Unions always want more because the workers generally get very little for their efforts. Why should they keep working hard only to have all of the company profits go into the pockets of the few rather than being distributed fairly so that everyone gets a slice of the pie for their work?

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Every time these topics come up, you guys jump in with, "Well, THOSE jobs are just bad anyway, THOSE people didn't work hard enough, so it's all ok, lalalaa"

I always wonder what you guys think is a "good enough" job or a "good enough" education to be able to work and live in a first world nation.

Shut up Bov

[Independent voter]

These will bring back the factories to the US.

[Strangebrew]

I don't live in Sweden but in the Netherlands but unions in our 2 nations should be the same, see above for my responses.

Pretty much the same in Norway, unions are fantastic. My old union even had shit like free lawyer help.
I'd even go and far and say that it's thanks to them that the job market is so good over here.

Of course, our current right-wing gov is working 24/7 to ruin that and take power away from the unions.

[breadisfunny]

You didn't call out nor debate a single thing.

You took a long post, deleted 99.9% of it, and made a childish snide remark.

Up your game son.

I've typed over 3000 words in this thread so far.

You picked out FOUR ...used them to flame-bait ...and called it "debating".

Pfff ...kids table.

every single person in this thread has called you out on your "facts" zombergy. but please continue to pretend your trying to have a discussion and not just spouting the tea party talking points. EVERY single one of your points have been disproven. yet you continue to sit here and claim they haven't.

- - - Updated - - -

These will bring back the factories to the US.

except you still have no jobs outside of the tech industry.

- - - Updated - - -

There are people, such as yourself, who dismiss anything that is critical of the agendas they support regardless of its validity.

That link has a lot of information, there's simply no way you've read it all if you even read any.

But you're belligerently dismissing it simply because it comes from "the other side".

Would you imagine that the unions themselves would publicize evidence of their corruption, their political influence, or of their destructive impact on business?

Source-shaming is low brow.

You could, instead, pick something they say and offer up a counter-argument and I'll read it.

or you could link from credible sources....like anyone who's serious about debating would do.

[Rennadrel]

every single person in this thread has called you out on your "facts" zombergy. but please continue to pretend your trying to have a discussion and not just spouting the tea party talking points. EVERY single one of your points have been disproven. yet you continue to sit here and claim they haven't.

- - - Updated - - -



except you still have no jobs outside of the tech industry.

- - - Updated - - -



or you could link from credible sources....like anyone who's serious about debating would do.

Incorrect, as the majority of robotics technicians in manufacturing have to have other skills related to the tasks that the robot must perform. Robots are simply used to replace human error and increase productivity in a lot of situations, there are still too many tasks that are too complicated for a robot to do as efficiently as a human without costing millions of dollars.

[TrumpIsPresident]

I am dismissing it because it is a blatantly partisan organization that is attempting to hide its partisanship via astroturfing. It doesn't even make an attempt to portray anything in an impartial manner. So why on earth would one seek out unbiased information from such an obviously biased source? And no source shaming is not what I have done. What I have done is point out to everyone else that that is a site that will not, and does not attempt to paint a true picture of unions and that if they have any sense they will skip it. It would be like discussing the pro's and con's of smoking with the cigarette industry - a waste of time. You do yourself no favors either by stooping to such propagandism.

FYI I do believe that there is SOME corruption in unions just like in other parts of society and that like everything else they are not perfect. But that is it.

So without bothering to read any of it you're convinced it's all lies.

There's a word for that exact psychological condition.

It's called a confirmation bias.

Well, I gave you three chances to make your case and you couldn't step up.

I guess we're done here.

[SirRobin]

Qualified workers? Sure, it's mostly low-skill jobs that get outsourced, I'll be damned if we can't teach a HS drop out to complete a handful of tasks that he has to repeat frequently.

Not just low skill. Plenty of high skill jobs have moved overseas too. Or had imported labor replace native.

Willing? For which wages? Are they willing to go down to some dollars an hour? There is a reason tons of Mexicans are working in your agriculture. And even if they get decent wages, you'd have to stop all the imports, so your 80 dollar American microwave can compete with the 35 dollar one.

Some dollars an hour? At the rate we are going plenty may end up having no other options. So what happens at that point?

[lockedout]

Meanwhile one of the biggest air conditioner companies (from Japan) opens an enormous factory in Texas...

Japan’s Daikin to Build $410 Million Air-Conditioner Factory Near Houston.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-d...ton-1420581605