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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyldragon View Post
    I never found it hard to get a full set of PvP gear, especially in WoD where it's like 1-2 days of being in Ashran to complete. For a full set of ilvl700, that's pretty little time compared to farming Tanaan for shitty 655 etc. I would've prefered if they continued with it, since it's an easy way for me to gear my toons that mostly farms old raids.

    I do like the new system though. Gives me a reason to casual pvp for cool stuff, so I doesn't have to go bonkers in RBGs or Arenas in order to get something worth it.
    In WoD it is really easy to get pvp gear, but before WoD it was a struggle.
    While it got increasingly better, it was still a 2 weeks long grindfest of constandly dying and full of frustration for oneself and ones teammates.

    I do remember BGs where half of my team had less than half the amount of HPs I had simply because they were yet not equipped. These games were lost because of this small simple fact. And of course the players could not be blamed for it they had no choice, but it was easy to make them responsible for the loss.

    This is flawed design.
    Having people to be a huge burdon for their teams in order to get the gear they need to be competetive is just stupid. It frustrates all for no good reason.

    It frustrates the undergeared player because he is unable to do anything and dies constandly and it frustrates the geared player because you have basically an uneven group of players and have to fight 8 vs 10 or something like that.

    I mainly do PvP and I love the new system. It is not perfect but it is better than before and I really look forward into BGs where I don't have to fight with or against players who are so highly undergeared that whatever they do they are no impact.

  2. #42
    Huge gear disparities were a wod/holinka thing. The new legion system may work for casual/pve players. But its pretty simple, remove all gear from wow pve and the game would die overnight. Removing gear from pvp, makes it a sideshow. Wow without real pvp is a boring shell of its former self and a fail

  3. #43
    Correct me if I'm wrong but with the new system, if Blizzard sees that a spec does not perform well, they can easily adjust +x% hp or +x% dmg/heal to that specific spec when they do instanced PvP.

    Problem is: will they be fully transparent when doing such adjustment? or will they be hotfixes with no transparency?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerKm8 View Post
    Huge gear disparities were a wod/holinka thing. The new legion system may work for casual/pve players. But its pretty simple, remove all gear from wow pve and the game would die overnight. Removing gear from pvp, makes it a sideshow. Wow without real pvp is a boring shell of its former self and a fail
    At current the plan is that PvP will still reward gear, similar to live but "improved" somehow. One assumes/hopes that high-rating arena or RBG play will award similar quality to high-end raiding. Blizzard recognizes that PvP is a pretty popular means of character progression, and they're not dumb enough to take that away.

  5. #45
    Deleted
    The biggest problem with PvP gear was how little effort they put into making the sets look wearable without transmog. They just reuse the skin and add a slight colour change. /thread

  6. #46
    PVP gear was built to be the most optimal gear you could have in any pvp situation.


    In legion, your numbers are static and don't change very much with gear...

    But what about raid tier piece bonuses in bgs?

    What about trinkets from raids in arenas?

    I am worried that high end PVPers are going to be forced into raiding just to get some OP trinket from a raid. In fact this was a problem before Resilience was introduced.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by XangXu View Post
    PVP gear was built to be the most optimal gear you could have in any pvp situation.


    In legion, your numbers are static and don't change very much with gear...

    But what about raid tier piece bonuses in bgs?

    What about trinkets from raids in arenas?

    I am worried that high end PVPers are going to be forced into raiding just to get some OP trinket from a raid. In fact this was a problem before Resilience was introduced.
    Set bonuses, trinkets, legendary effects, etc. will be disabled in BGs/arena. You keep your artifact, that's about it.

  8. #48
    The primary reason for the PvP gear change is the effect PvP gear has on PvE. In WoD, PvP gear overshadowed the gear from way too much PvE content. Look at honor gear right now: ilvl 700 in PvE.

    IMO, without the PvE-gearing motivation for doing PvP, casual PvP in Legion will see greatly reduced activity. Blizzard must know this, so I expect they are transitioning the game to a place where PvP is only a minor niche.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Icuren View Post
    I like it.

    Allows me to actually jump into pvp on alts/ my main after a long time not playing pvp, instead of taking a long time of being beaten into the dirt by people who kept up with gear.

    Is it fun beating up fresh capped players? heck yeah. Is it fair or fun for them? heck no.
    Do you really think those fresh capped players know what theyre doing? Most likely not.

    Gear is just a scapegoat shitters use to blame their losses on when 95% of it is a lack of skill. Lock main and used my legion boost on another lock and I'm outdoing enemy locks at 735+ ilvl with just 80% pvp blues plus baleful garbage. Simply because I'm watching them cast seed of corruption, rain of fire on groups of people, or drain life spamming when trying to 1v1

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The primary reason for the PvP gear change is the effect PvP gear has on PvE. In WoD, PvP gear overshadowed the gear from way too much PvE content. Look at honor gear right now: ilvl 700 in PvE.

    IMO, without the PvE-gearing motivation for doing PvP, casual PvP in Legion will see greatly reduced activity. Blizzard must know this, so I expect they are transitioning the game to a place where PvP is only a minor niche.
    ^This seems like a very legit behind the scenes reasoning that Blizz put a spin on to "try to make it more fair for fresh players" when the talent system is totally contradicting their intention.

    Even up to Mythic HM my ret was using 4 piece conquest for the strong bonus, and now w the new characters ilvl 700 stuff is so much easier to get than their baleful system. PvP gear now encourages skipping all of the questing and half the raiding difficulties, and in Legion seems they want people to focus heavily on mindless RNG farming via shitastic D3 Jay Wilson style

    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but with the new system, if Blizzard sees that a spec does not perform well, they can easily adjust +x% hp or +x% dmg/heal to that specific spec when they do instanced PvP.

    Problem is: will they be fully transparent when doing such adjustment? or will they be hotfixes with no transparency?
    You'd think that's a very reasonable solution but it's blizz. Ret hasn't been viable with any comp that revolves around it with weak damage this entire xpac with nothing but nerfs
    Last edited by Astynax; 2016-03-02 at 06:43 PM.

  10. #50
    PvP gear was never the issue, the people who are bad at PvP simply blaming their loses on the gear, not the actual reason: their skills.
    Astynax brought a good example (his lock in a BG) where you can be under geared and still preform better than geared players in BGs/RBGs, same goes for arena: if you play a good comp with skilled players you can hit 2,4k cr+ in honor gear/few conquest pieces.
    PvP gear was only hard to get in Vanila, ever since arena came out, you could get high rating with honor gear if you knew what you are doing, hence gear is more of a reward for time that dedicated PvPers spend in Arena or RBGs, it is like saying "lets give every1 Myth gear to make progression fair for every guild". WoW is a type of game focused around grinding for gear and rewards it brings with it, by removing PvP gear will make WoW PvP very shallow, and arena or RBGs will never be a balanced e-sport since we have so many specs to balance around which is impossible (another good example Astynax brought: Ret Pally), if you want a balanced e-sport game play SC or CS.

  11. #51
    OMG no powerful pvp gear for baddies I gotta love this.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icuren View Post
    Is it fair or fun for them? heck no.
    Losing is never fun.

    And in PvP there has to be a loser
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    It takes less than a day to fully gear for PVP in WoD. In Legion, you will have to grind for hours to have PVP talents. You will be stomped hard by players at highier honor levels.
    Are you saying it takes less than 24 playing hours? Or less than a few hours (e.g. 4)? If so, how does one get geared in a few hours because I might be missing a critical aspect here or something got implemented I missed while I was away.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElDoorO View Post
    Are you saying it takes less than 24 playing hours? Or less than a few hours (e.g. 4)? If so, how does one get geared in a few hours because I might be missing a critical aspect here or something got implemented I missed while I was away.
    For whatever it is worth I went from 640 Legion boost HPriest to 694 within 8 hours and 705 within 36. That is equipped not the in PvP ilvl.

    I took my Horde Shaman from WoD S1 660 to 698 in a couple hours of Ashran with only my 710 box and 2 700 blue drops. Rest was fragment/domination quest.
    Last edited by theostrichsays; 2016-03-04 at 01:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    Thank you for mansplaining how opinions work.
    Also you're wrong, the people who agree with you are wrong, and you're probably ugly.
    Ever been so angry at everyone on the internet you tell a woman she is mansplaining?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    As we know, Blizzard is removing, or at least significantly reducing, the effect of gear in PvP in Legion. While this seems good on paper, after giving it more thought, I came to the conclusion that the gear was never really the problem for me.

    Whenever I lost in PvP and the opponent had better gear, I was OK with it. I knew that all I needed to do was play more, get the gear, and I would beat them without problems. Never did I think 'fuck this game, PvP gear is ruining it'. But the times I thought 'fuck this game, class balance is nonexistent' were countless.

    I just can't shake the feeling that Blizzard is fixing the wrong problem. Maybe they are in for an unpleasant surprise.
    They should really not allow people who have only played wow for 2, 3 weeks tops to post shit like this. PvP gear has been a thorn in peoples sides for a while now. From my personal point of view through how I like to play the game I can't fkin tell you how annoying it is to be stuck pvping with the wrong gear equipped. Yes it happens to everyone. I enjoy unscripted outdoor pvp more than any part of this game (a big fuck you blizz for funneling all pvp into ashran this exp) and this one change is gonna be awesome while levelling and for the first few months when I am out there griefing everday. Fingers crossed they find a way to get ppl out in the world and not in scripted pvp settings like ashran and BGs... I would be ok with them keeping PvP gear as long as they allow you to switch seamlessly between gear sets WHILE IN COMBAT. It really is the dumbest fucking shit. If trinket swapping was an issue put a higher IGCD when you equip them instead of punishing people by not being able to switch at all.

  16. #56
    Good news is that the first column of PVP talents is relatively easy to unlock. Bad news is that to unlock all the talents you need 45,000 honor. On live (WoD), the grind is far more easier and you are able to fully gear out a character in half the time (honor per hour).

    Stat templates work as advertised (also good news), but the bad news is that players with better gear will still have an edge (eg mythic raiders) on a scale of 5% or greater.
    Last edited by Mafic; 2016-03-05 at 04:47 PM.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  17. #57
    Deleted
    It's a problem if you like playing alts. Gearing one character isn't that much of deal, but sometimes down the expansion, you want to reroll or at least try something else, and then you realize that you have to grind the gear all over again, and that's a huge turn off, tbh.

    It wasn't as bad in wod thanks to Trashran (at least it was a good at helping you gear up alts), but in the former expansions grinding gear meant afk-ing in AV for days. Yes, afk-ing, because it's slightly less annoying than being 2 shotted by random idiots who have better gear.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Losing is never fun.
    Losing can be fun if the fight was remotely fair and what he is referring to is losing in a fight where nothing you do can change the outcome.

  19. #59
    I would love to play some arenas now, but I just loged in and did some and I have zero gear. There is no way I'm gonna grind 25k conquest point without any gear. I'll rather just wait until Legion than grind 2s for conquest. I'm so glad the are removing gear in Legion. Gear has no meaning in PvP when everyone is fully capped.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Let me take your argument and flip it. People without full honor rank talents are going to be a detriment to their team. Also the people working on ranking up Prestige in essence are going to be carried by those with full honor rank talents.

    Here is an example:

    Arms Warriors honor level 10 talent: Wrecking Crew - Colossus Effect is now applied to all enemies within 8 yards.

    Lets presume it is easy and quick to obtain honor level 10. Lets look at Warrior's honor level 28 talent: Echo Slam - Colossus Smash deals 10% increased damage 2.5 seconds later ignoring all armor.

    The last honor level talent is 46 honor level: Sharpen Blade - When activated (45s CD), your next Mortal Strike will deal 50% more damage and reduces healing taken by 70% for 4 sec.

    In WoD, a player that is under geared could still CC, throw a heal, etc to help out teammates. In Legion, they have stripped CC and utility from base line talents and are gated behind this honor PVP system.

    Basically, just because they have normalized gear in PVP instances players with little or no honor rank will still be a detriment to a team versus a Warrior for example with full honor ranks.
    Yeah they lose utility in Legion, however, they are still able to perform their primary role on par(or close to) everyone else in the BG. There was literally a gear point in MoP where a fresh 90 could *not* kill a fully geared Warrior through Second Wind. And even though they lose Utility, AOE Colossus Smash with how powerful Colossus Smash is will be fantastic in BG's. It's really not so riduclously worse than the other 2 that the player becomes a burden to their team. However, some 200k HP fresh 90 defending a flag point and getting 2 shot by a fully geared pvp hunter, is.

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