Icefury?? Interesting to say the least.

[Jmarsh56]

Anyone have any good input or ideas about the new talent Icefury?

Link in case you haven't seen it.
http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=210714/icefury

[Morssoe]

Dunno, feels like shaman is too much preparing stuff to deal high burst. Think they should just remove unleashes and such and stick with regular cds for dmg increase.

[Troopsmith]

Dunno, feels like shaman is too much preparing stuff to deal high burst. Think they should just remove unleashes and such and stick with regular cds for dmg increase.

They've said a lot in the past that CDs are problematic. "every 2 minutes, you can deal damage that matters". I'm fine with them taking different approaches like this.

[Kralljin]

It's an Frost Spell for Shaman, so i really like it.

Always felt Elementel was pushed into this Lightning / Fire theme over the past years.

Elemental may finally wield all Elements.

From a gameplay perspective, i think it's pretty neat, it pushes Frost shock into your rotation, which is good because Frost shock with 20 Maelstrom is much more flexible than ES.

[Coffeh]

Any videos of this? I can't find any. No one plays elemental in Legion apparently, or at least don't post videos.

[jimmyolsen]

The current graphic is kind of cutesy (it's posted in the Elemental Legion Alpha thread).

The talent is potentially huge for mobility (as is Molten Earth), as Frost Shock can be cast for 50% spell power with 0 maelstrom. In terms of Patchwerk damage output, it's too early to know for sure. Lightning Rod and Elementals are all screwed up; EB feels that way too. You have 15 seconds to use all three charges, so you can interweave some lava burst/lightning bolts in between to proc Elemental Focus and generate some extra maelstrom.

[TeeZed]

Gives mobility and respectable damage while moving if you've pooled enough MS, you'll require some planning and knowledge of the fight but I like that. Good design overall, probably broken as fuck in PvP though (600% SP slow spam while moving, okie)

[Torm]

Really enjoyed this idea. All what metters now are numbers. From PVE perspective Icefury is very strong in combination with Echo of the Elements. Basically you want to weave Lava Burst + Icefury + 3x(Lava Burst + Frost Shock). That way your DMG will be insane. On target swapping where target dies too fast, you can spam Frost Shock only. Also with Aftershock talent, you would need only little of Maelstorm to cast all Frost Shocks in full strength (around 30).
Also if I compare it versus Ascendance I would take this talent always. Not just if you need to move mid Ascendance you are screwing 3 min CD since there is no Spirit Walker's Grace anymore. Also Ascendance feels very weak especially in combination with current T19 set bonuses which are pushing us to weave spells. So you will never want to cast two lava Burst in a row since you will loose 40% DMG increase on one spell. Ascendance just feels clunkcy atm so I'm happy for Icefury.

[Kralljin]

Also Ascendance feels very weak especially in combination with current T19 set bonuses which are pushing us to weave spells. So you will never want to cast two lava Burst in a row since you will loose 40% DMG increase on one spell.

The reintroduction of Elemental focus simply brings back old issues.

Previously, Crit got worse over time because the more crit you had, the uptime of Elemental focus increased and thereby, crit lost value.

Now, crit scaling might not become a problem, after all, Lvb itself doesn't deal as much as damage as it did when Elemental Focus was still existant.

For Ascendance however, this matters a great deal, a lot of value from this talent comes out of the Auto Crit Lvb, the increased Maelstrom gain & 100% Elemental Focus uptime.

Ascendance will probably be a decent talent at start, but as soon as you reach some crit levels (Can't avoid crit since reforge is gone) Ascendance will become rather bad, the fact that the 2pc increases the crit chance of LB by 15% makes it even worse, because the uptime of Elemental Focus will be even higher outside of Ascendance.

Then there's EotE, which interacts in no way with Ascendance, which is already bad but obviously also increases the uptime of Elemental Focus outside of Ascendance as well.

The only saving grace about this talent will be the increased Maelstrom generation and damage difference of Lb and Lvb, but i doubt that suffices to make the talent worth, not even talking about making it an effective 3min CD.

Altough the changes to Ascendance shows that the devs themselves aren't sure how to fit this talent into Elemental.

But Elemental Focus, especially with the 4pc, got me thinking that EB will be challenged by EotE because of this.

With ES and FrS (Considering you chose Icefury) you have 2 spells you really want to boost with Elemental Focus, with just one Lvb charge, you can't reliably have Elemental Focus up for each ES.

With EotE you can easily go up to close as possible 100 Maelstrom and still get Elemental Focus on ES, while without it you have to rely on luck to have a EF up when you want to cast ES, or you're forced to cast it earlier with less Maelstrom, which is bad because you want to only use ES when you're about to get capped on Maelstrom.

Having a 100 Maelstrom ES with EF is huge, with the 4pc (considering it's 40% and not 44%) it will deal instead of 600% up to 840% SP, which is a 140% bonus.

Dumping those Icefury stacks /w EF becomes also quite easy, 3 Lvb charge pretty much ensure you can cast 4 FrS w/ EF quite easily.

[jimmyolsen]

With ES and FrS (Considering you chose Icefury) you have 2 spells you really want to boost with Elemental Focus, with just one Lvb charge, you can't reliably have Elemental Focus up for each ES.

With EotE you can easily go up to close as possible 100 Maelstrom and still get Elemental Focus on ES, while without it you have to rely on luck to have a EF up when you want to cast ES, or you're forced to cast it earlier with less Maelstrom, which is bad because you want to only use ES when you're about to get capped on Maelstrom.

Having a 100 Maelstrom ES with EF is huge, with the 4pc (considering it's 40% and not 44%) it will deal instead of 600% up to 840% SP, which is a 140% bonus.

Dumping those Icefury stacks /w EF becomes also quite easy, 3 Lvb charge pretty much ensure you can cast 4 FrS w/ EF quite easily.

Don't neglect that refreshing Flame Shock with an EF stack is a massive damage buff, as 30 seconds of Flame Shock is higher DPET than even a 100 maelstrom Earth Shock.

[Kralljin]

Don't neglect that refreshing Flame Shock with an EF stack is a massive damage buff, as 30 seconds of Flame Shock is higher DPET than even a 100 maelstrom Earth Shock.

I don't think FS will be a problem.

If the Pandemic mechanic still exists in Legion, you have ~10second window to refresh FS, which is more than enough considering EF grants 2 stacks and lvb has a 8 second CD.

A bigger problem is actually your opener without EotE.

(assuming that Power of the Maelstrom is a 100% trigger at start)

If you go Lvb=> Stormkeeper => Lb => Lb => Lb ; your 3rd Lb won't have EF unless one the previous LB crits, with EotE you can go:
Lvb => Stormkeeper => LB => LB => Lvb => Lvb

Now this even leaves one important thing: With Fire Elemental, you generate 100% more Maelstrom for 15seconds (which is should be active during the Pullphase).

So basically, If you go:

Fire Elemental => Lvb => Stormkeeper => LB => LB => LB, you overshoot your Maelstrom Cap by a huge amount.

Lvb generates 32 Maelstrom w/ Fire Elemental (This Lvb won't trigger an overload for simplicity, in reality, you have a chance for 24 additional Maelstrom)
LB generates 20 Maelstrom, however because of Stormkeeper those 3 Lb's will overload twice, so they actually generate 50 Maelstrom.

So one LB will generate 20 Maelstrom due 100% Bonus; 20*.75 = 15; 15*2 = 30 => 20 (Original LB) + 30 (From 2 Overloads) = 50 Maelstrom.

If you don't want to waste a ton of Maelstrom, rotation will be like this:

Fire Elemental => Lvb (+32 Maelstrom) => Stormkeeper => LB (+50Maelstrom) => ES (Used w/ 82 Maelstrom) => LB (+50Maelstrom) => LB(+50Maelstrom) (Lvb should be ready again at this point) => ES (Used w/ 100 Maelstrom)

Now the obvious issue here is, without EotE you can only guarantee EF for the 1st LB and the following ES, relying on Luck for the 2 remaining Lb's and ES.

Also, Lvb with it's 8sec CD would be become rdy again for the final ES, however, you'll be sitting at 100 Maelstrom, casting Lvb to boost the ES means you're wasting 32 Maelstrom.

With EotE you can go like:

Fire Elemental => Lvb (+32 Maelstrom) => Stormkeeper => LB (+50Maelstrom) => ES (Used w/ 82 Maelstrom) => Lvb (+32 Maelstrom) =>
LB (+50Maelstrom) => ES (Used w/ 82 Maelstrom) => Lvb (+32 Maelstrom) => LB (+50Maelstrom) => ES (Used w/ 82 Maelstrom).

To simplifiy : Lvb => Lb => ES and repeat

Both LB and ES will be boosted by EF without wasting any EF charges, without EotE this can happen as well, but it is far from relieable and the guraanteed combination of Power of the Maelstrom and Stormkeeper at the start of an Encounter should be boosted by EF.


Maelstrom cap should be increased to 120, with ES consuming 100 max, the Overload mechanic makes such a "comfort zone" really neccessary.

Off topic: This opener makes me realize that Ascendance would suck even more, it would take like 10-15seconds until you finally can use Ascendance after your opener, Ascendance needs to improve your entire rotation, not just replacing everything with Lvb and ES.

[Deleted]

If you go Lvb=> Stormkeeper => Lb => Lb => Lb ; your 3rd Lb won't have EF unless one the previous LB crits, with EotE you can go:
Lvb => Stormkeeper => LB => LB => Lvb => Lvb

Remember that on alpha, LvB have 100% crit chance only with Flame Shock up.

[Kralljin]

Remember that on alpha, LvB have 100% crit chance only with Flame Shock up.

Yeah, forgot to add FS, but it doesn't change much since FS is casted before Lvb, therefore you spend 0 Maelstrom on it, 15 seconds as baseline duration suffice for your opener anyway.

[jimmyolsen]

1) Stormkeeper has a 15 sec. duration. There is no rush to burn all three LBs quickly unless Lightning Elemental from Artifact Talents still has the crit bonus (untestable atm). So even without echo, you can get EF for the third.
2) If there is an 8sec crit buff tied to Stormkeeper, the likelihood of getting an EF from the first two LBs is substantially increased. However, my suspicion is that buff is going to be moved to Storm Elemental, since currently it does not have the maelstrom generation buff.

[shammypie]

I don't think FS will be a problem.

If the Pandemic mechanic still exists in Legion, you have ~10second window to refresh FS, which is more than enough considering EF grants 2 stacks and lvb has a 8 second CD.

A bigger problem is actually your opener without EotE.

(assuming that Power of the Maelstrom is a 100% trigger at start)

.

i would suggest keeping openers to the other legion elemental thread as it's already been discussed there. As an fyi they are changing rppm so that PotM will not proc at the start automatically. Furthemore once your max your artifact the charge system becomes mute for Stormkeeper since you have auto crits for 8 seconds after casting it. You only need 1 charge to begin it. furthermore Ascendance becomes more attractive since you will want to fish for a PotM at the beginning with it.

[Kralljin]

Furthemore once your max your artifact the charge system becomes mute for Stormkeeper since you have auto crits for 8 seconds after casting it.

Happens under the assumption that Lightning Elemental retains the 100% Crit effect.

Which is speculative, because the tooltip of the Summon Spell itself no longer features this, while the 100% crit for some spells is listed under effects, the list is incomplete and misses certain spells (Icefury, Frost shock, Flame shock, Earthquake, etc.).

1) Stormkeeper has a 15 sec. duration. There is no rush to burn all three LBs quickly unless Lightning Elemental from Artifact Talents still has the crit bonus (untestable atm). So even without echo, you can get EF for the third.

What you want to cast during those 15 seconds? Kinda hard if your usual filler spell is the one that gets buffed.

[jimmyolsen]

What you want to cast during those 15 seconds? Kinda hard if your usual filler spell is the one that gets buffed.

If you don't take Echo, you have Elemental Blast and Icefury to fill gaps during Storm Keeper. Also, without RPPM auto-proc on pull, the opener isn't worth nearly the value that it used to be.

Additionally, if you get a PotM off that first Lava Burst, you're going to have to Earth Shock pretty quickly. If you get a LB Crit, then you don't need Lava Burst to trigger EF. Hell, if Stormkeeper does in fact trigger the auto-crit, then you can just burn all three instantly, since you'll get EF regardless. Between your lava burst cast and your second lightning bolt, your flame shock will tick 4 times, possibly triggering Lava Surge.

You don't need a static, rigid opener, because the feel of elemental right now is that it's *not* static. Icefury alone allows you to stall for lava burst CDs/surges during those 15-second windows.

[Kralljin]

If you don't take Echo, you have Elemental Blast and Icefury to fill gaps during Storm Keeper. Also, without RPPM auto-proc on pull, the opener isn't worth nearly the value that it used to be.

Icefury has the same issue, you'd want to boost those Frost shocks with Elemental Focus.

You can use it to fill the gap or boost it, both doesn't really work.

Hell, if Stormkeeper does in fact trigger the auto-crit, then you can just burn all three instantly, since you'll get EF regardless.

Depends on whether you get PotM proc or not, if you get one, you have fill in ES to not get maelstrom capped.

But personally i doubt that you still get the 100% Crit, simply due the fact that it makes your Dps very unstable, the difference between a perfect PotM proc and a shitty one will be even greater with 100% Crit.

[jimmyolsen]

Icefury has the same issue, you'd want to boost those Frost shocks with Elemental Focus.

You can use it to fill the gap or boost it, both doesn't really work.

Stormkeeper Lightning Bolt does the same amount of damage as a 100 maelstrom Earth Shock, and thus more than an Icefury Frost Shock. Plus LB can overload. Getting EF on a Stormkeeper Lightning Bolt is more valuable than getting it on 1 of your 4 ice fury frost shocks. Plus casting Icefury gives you another chance at proccing EF.

[Kralljin]

Stormkeeper Lightning Bolt does the same amount of damage as a 100 maelstrom Earth Shock, and thus more than an Icefury Frost Shock. Plus LB can overload. Getting EF on a Stormkeeper Lightning Bolt is more valuable than getting it on 1 of your 4 ice fury frost shocks. Plus casting Icefury gives you another chance at proccing EF.

That simply highlights the problem which EotE solves.

With EotE, you don't have to choose for which "big" spells you want to secure EF, 3 Lvb Charges simply give you enough freedom to boost any hardhitting spell.

The general issue for EB is simply that this spell has no synergy, maybe Lightning rod if they finally fix'd it.

While Lava Burst on the other hand, interacts with other skills and traits.

Lava Burst alone has two traits dedicated to boosting it's damage, then there's Elementalist, Lava Burst greatly benefits from Fire Elemental by doubling the Maelstrom generation, casting EB during while the 100% Maelstrom generation is active grants no major benefit, any Shock trait / talent benefits from more Lava bursts.