Kosak bombarded with "World of PeaceCraft" on Twitter. Thoughts?

[Alixie]

We're always at war with a big bad. The title "Warcraft" doesn't exactly lose relevance when the Alliance and Horde make peace. Was Warcraft 3 not a Warcraft game? Because Orcs versus Humans was about 10 minutes of it, and then a mini-campaign at the end where the guy who wanted to continue the Alliance/Horde war was clearly established as the bad guy.

Also, the current reason is definitely not serviceable. Hell, the relatively-recent mercenary mode is a symptom of exactly how serviceable it isn't.

The horde and alliance are always at war with whoever is invading that expansion. Not necessarily with each other.

[Varitok]

and why create a random retarded reason when there is a perfectly servicable one already implemented? It's world of WARCRAFT, and it is never going to change, independent of whatever little RP-PVE heroes want to have.

Why do people like you always pop up in these threads? You act as if war can only happen between our factions and not like we have been at war with a big baddie every expansion since release. Thats what the warcraft is, not some petty faction dispute that gets settled every expansion and subsequently forgotten about between expacs.

[mizeri]

instead, lets add a 3rd playable faction, the legion

[Thage]

So, you assume they can write "peace" with grace?

They did so quite well in Warcraft 3, WoW Vanilla, and WoW TBC. They have an established record of being able to write the factions in a cold war or allies engaged in border clashes; they do not have an established record of being able to convincingly write the Alliance-Horde war within an MMO that doesn't resort to derailing characters and plots that outright rely on the temporary idiocy of all involved.

[Eats Compost]

And again, that is Blizzard fault. Is that mine or your fault it hasn't worked?

So why are we blaming Blizzard for fault, instead of giving them grounds to change the whole point? What's the point of factions? What's the point of races? If all you want is cooperation and hand holding?

You didn't even address anything I said. What's with this "It's Blizzard's fault" thing? Of course it's Blizzard's fault. No-one's arguing that the group behind a story isn't the one responsible. People are asking them to do better and the obvious way to do better is to remove the difficult, stubborn wart in the middle of the story that persists for no good reason.

Would you have liked George Lucas to give Jar Jar Binks greater screen time in subsequent movies to make him good? Or would you rather have him make a new, better character, because Jar Jar didn't work?

[Cooper]

If Blizzard doesn't want to end the faction conflict, they shouldn't have made an expansion pack in which one of the central themes is about how the faction conflict is nothing but a stupid race war.

Taran Zhu for World Overlord.

[Jokerfiend]

They've demonstrated a consistent and clear lack of ability to write the war with any sort of grace. When someone keeps fucking up for I want to say seven years straight, it's the very definition of insanity to allow them to continue pursuing the thing they fuck up with any expectations of improvement.

Why are we giving them a free pass instead of forcing them to make it work and work well?

It's insane for us to continue to buy a product that is defective. I guess it depends on where you stand.

[Eats Compost]

The horde and alliance are always at war with whoever is invading that expansion. Not necessarily with each other.

Precisely.

[beanman12345]

They did so quite well in Warcraft 3, WoW Vanilla, and WoW TBC. They have an established record of being able to write the factions in a cold war or allies engaged in border clashes; they do not have an established record of being able to convincingly write the Alliance-Horde war within an MMO that doesn't resort to derailing characters and plots that outright rely on the temporary idiocy of all involved.

I'll give you warcraft 3 because that was a medium that is better suited at telling a story. They did no better at selling peace in vanilla or tbc as they did selling war since.

[Thage]

Why are we giving them a free pass instead of forcing them to make it work and work well?

It's not a free pass when they've demonstrated an inability to accomplish the task at hand, it's telling them to focus on things they're not awful at.

[Deleted]

What makes it weird is that they're eachother's first go-to. In a real-world context, it's less like Russia and the US and more like some hypothetical bizarre relationship where the UK and France repeatedly declare war on eachother but then help eachother invade other countries.

It's make some degree of sense if the Alliance and Horde were in a constant state of strife but toned down their conflicts when a greater threat appeared. What doesn't make sense is how they constantly collaborate and then immediately go back to hating eachother. They're acting as if they're simultaneously eachother's biggest and smallest threat. In a real world situation, they'd either do the cold war thing and avoiding committing to aconflict, or actually commit to one.

There actually is a story about the locals here that pretty much describes your situation, only that they argue but work together when lighning ignites the church only to go back to arguing right after the fire is put out.
That doesn't translate to fullscale war and total cooperation though.

[Deleted]

Makes sense, to make it fit I'd like to see all the Battlegrounds re-skinned to reflect different more "mercenary conflicts".

Keep the same pvp mechanics. Instead of still fighting Warsong Gulch "reskin" it to be a pirate theme island battle of Bloodsail Mercenaries vs The Booty bay trading company. Imagine the Flag buildings being a couple of ships with an island between them as the middle ground. The Cata flag one makes sense as its Wildhammer vs Dragonmaw already.

The Outland one could be ironically made into the new Draenor Nagrand inspired Saberon vs Nessingwary expedition fight rival hunting factions in a battle over hunting rights. Another could be Hozen vs Jinyu.

These would be a bit more timeless than the current still fighting over some trees in North Barrens/Ashenvale or Still fighting over Alterac Valley.

Each one would offer a new faction to fight for and unique rewards perhaps even in the future one way to unlock the much wanted subraces.

[Jokerfiend]

You didn't even address anything I said. What's with this "It's Blizzard's fault" thing? Of course it's Blizzard's fault. No-one's arguing that the group behind a story isn't the one responsible. People are asking them to do better and the obvious way to do better is to remove the difficult, stubborn wart in the middle of the story that persists for no good reason.

Would you have liked George Lucas to give Jar Jar Binks greater screen time in subsequent movies to make him good? Or would you rather have him make a new, better character, because Jar Jar didn't work?

Why is there no good reason for the Conflict? Because has it been made so. Not because of game mechanics. That is looking at early flight models(like Wright Brothers shit) and saying it's impossible, now.

No. It don't follow your brand. I believe we should force Blizzard into making the conflict work, rather than allowing the pass.

[Zarc]

Ending the Horde vs. Alliance division would tear apart the soul of the franchise. No thank you.

[Jokerfiend]

It's not a free pass when they've demonstrated an inability to accomplish the task at hand, it's telling them to focus on things they're not awful at.

But is it allowing them a free pass. Are you buying the product? Are you a subscriber? Their inability is allowed a free pass, when they force a direction and you continue to buy the product.

[Nefarious Tea]

*snip*

I've been saying this since SOO - the pointless and petty factional pissing contest is monumentally stupid when you consider WC3's story. We didn't stop the Legion. Only delayed it.

And now they're back, and just like I said more than two years ago, the Alliance and Horde are too busy trying to out-stupid the other that the Legion is going to win this time. (Except not because Deus ex machina contrived plothole that randomly defeats the Legion through no player agency.)

[Aquamonkey]

The pillars of the franchise are orcs and humans. "That's always gotta be what Warcraft is about."

Is the Pandaren’s thoughtful mentality going to change the Horde and Alliance? Are the Horde and Alliance just going to go there, corrupt it, and then go back to what they were doing before?

I guess the way I would answer that is… Ultimately, for my part, I always come back to this one theme in Warcraft. I think the core of Warcraft’s animus is cyclic. Because you can only push racial hatred through so many products without it feeling like the same old thing, and thus end. But the pillars of the franchise are orcs and humans; it really is the Alliance and Horde by extension, and it really is those two groups beating the brains out of each other for an extended period of time. That’s always gotta be what Warcraft is about. (Source)

[Baconeggcheese]

What is it with this opinion becoming more and more shared among the fans recently? Do people really want the pivotal driving force of the Warcraft IP, the "Orc vs. Human" precedent established since WC1 to die? What does MMO-C think?
To me, sounds like more propoganda from the high elf loyalists <.<

That "driving force" hasn't been the case since at the very least wc3.

It's literally never made sense in wow, we've spent the last 30+ years (in the games timeline) working with each other to fight earth shattering threat after threat after threat. If you've managed to find a way to make this the driving force in your mind for WoW I'd love for you to explain how, because lore wise we have 0 reason to continue that fight. Even less so now that we're uniting yet again to face the legion.

From a game mechanics standpoint there is absolutely nothing healthy about segregating your player base. From the very beginning people simply play on one sided servers, there's almost never any servers that are actually faction balanced because basically no one wants a balanced server.

It absolutely hasn't made any sense since WoW launched to ever split players / factions up from both a game mechanics and a lore standpoint.

[Gheld]

Yes, I think the faction conflict is stupid and only serves for the wannabes who think PVP is still serious business. It's about time to get rid of it similar to how Rift did: Factions are at war, players are not. BGs still exist, you can't go into Horde territory as Alliance or vice versa without getting attacked by guards, have open world PVP areas that are still free for all, but let cross-faction communication and grouping happen. Basically win-win. If they must, only keep things as they are on pure PVP servers; PVE, RP and RP-PVP would be open (RP-PVP is a weird option here but the idea is that RP would want it open, but PVP is still an option for those who want to play like that e.g. a Human whose family was killed by Orcs and hates them).

If people gravitate towards PVP servers, they want to keep it alive. If they leave, they do not. Simple way to gauge it.

Yeah that's the thing. Nobody is advocating that it should be 100% peace and no more pvp.

It's not all black and white. There's plenty of real world examples such as North and South Korea, where neither side has reached each other's terms for ending the war but nevertheless both countries are in a state of armistace.

It makes sense that in the face of the Burning freakin' Legion that Horde and Alliance would declare a state of armistace in order to better coordinate their combined forces against the Legion. That doesn't mean if I hate blood elves I can't go around ganking blood elves anymore.

Or that rogue generals won't launch sorties against targets of interest (i.e. battlegorunds). But ever since WoTLK the lore behind the horde alliance conflict has just been so poorly written, such plot manipulation, many bore... wow.

[emilylorange]

I was the jerk demanding merc mode for pve content two years ago so