Seattle man changes in Women's lockers citing gender rule

[Belize]

SEATTLE - Seattle Parks and Recreation is facing a first-of-a-kind challenge to gender bathroom rules. A man undressed in a women's locker room, citing a new state rule that allows people to choose a bathroom based on gender identity.

It was a busy time at Evans Pool around 5:30 p.m. Monday February 8. The pool was open for lap swim. According to Seattle Parks and Recreation, a man wearing board shorts entered the women's locker room and took off his shirt. Women alerted staff, who told the man to leave, but he said "the law has changed, and I have a right to be here."

"Really bizarre," MaryAnne Sato said. "I can't imagine why they would want to do that anyway!"

Sato uses the locker room a few times a week, but she says this is a first for her. It's also a first for Seattle Parks and Recreation. Employees report that the man made no verbal or physical attempt to identify as a woman, yet he still cited a new rule that allows bathroom choice based on gender identification.

The issue drew protesters from both sides to Olympia on Monday. Opponents claim the rule opens up bathrooms to voyeurs, but supporters say that's an unrealistic fear.

No one was arrested in this case and police weren't called, even though the man returned a second time while young girls were changing for swim practice.

"Sort of works against the point they're trying to make. They're causing people to feel exposed and vulnerable with the intention of reducing people feeling exposed and vulnerable," said pool regular Aldan Shank.

The man's protest, if that's what it was, hurts the greater cause, Shank says.

As far as policy to protect everyone, Seattle Parks spokesman David Takami says they're still working on the issue. Right now, there's no specific protocol for how someone should demonstrate their gender in order to access a bathroom. Employees just rely on verbal identification or physical appearance, and this man offered neither.

"This didn’t seem like a transgender issue to staff – someone who was “identifying” as a woman," Takami wrote in a statement to KING 5. "We have guidelines that allow transgender individuals to use restrooms and locker rooms consistent with their gender identity. We want everyone to feel comfortable in our facilities."

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/regio...-rule/45489064

Well, we've been theorizing about this, and now it's actually put into practice.

I do wonder how far this can be pushed though? I mean, we have to just take the person's word since gender and sex are not linked anymore.

[Independent voter]

The girls don't like penises in their locker rooms.

[Vanyali]

Pretty much, yeah.

I really don't see the value in letting someone pick any facility based on what they "identify" as. Just because it makes them feel comfortable? What about the absurdly huge overwhelming majority of people who are now made uncomfortable?

On the other hand, it's pretty clear when someone is doing it to be a dick and to watch people undress for sexual reasons. Acting like intent isn't part and parcel of this law is pretty silly.

[Belize]

Pretty much, yeah.

I really don't see the value in letting someone pick any facility based on what they "identify" as. Just because it makes them feel comfortable? What about the absurdly huge overwhelming majority of people who are now made uncomfortable?

I'm also curious about Gender Fluid.

DISCLAIMER: I know mods don't like gender identity discussions, but since we have a basis for this, and it isn't bashing we can keep it civil. Pinkie Promess.

Anyhow, Gender Fluid can feel like a man one day and a women another. Do they have access to all facilities? Talk about the embarrassment of choice (that's an expression in english right?)

[Deleted]

Man entering women's toilet/shower -> pervert
Woman entering men's toilet/shower -> cute

[TexasRules]

On the other hand, it's pretty clear when someone is doing it to be a dick and to watch people undress for sexual reasons. Acting like intent isn't part and parcel of this law is pretty silly.

But how do you really know? As activists will attest, how can you really know how someone feels? Maybe this was his first step in realizing who he is. Maybe he is a pedophile doing it for the wrong reason. Maybe this law is absurd. Who knows what lies in the hearts of men?

[Jotaux]

On the other hand, it's pretty clear when someone is doing it to be a dick and to watch people undress for sexual reasons. Acting like intent isn't part and parcel of this law is pretty silly.

Well in this situation does he legitimately identify as female or is he just being a dick?

[Faroth]

All I can think of is "this is the future you chose." /shrug

[Skaiz]

This guy is a legend ( if he was trying to prove a point). What a horribly dumb new law. dicks need to stay out of women bathrooms and changing rooms. Why risk the safety of many women and girls to protect some specific feels of the few

[Belize]

All I can think of is "this is the future you chose." /shrug

Great, now I have the Ron Paul "You could have stopped this" picture stuck in my head...

[Vanyali]

But how do you really know? As activists will attest, how can you really know how someone feels? Maybe this was his first step in realizing who he is. Maybe he is a pedophile doing it for the wrong reason. Maybe this law is absurd. Who knows what lies in the hearts of men?

Or maybe you could note that those actually identifying (actual term: presenting) as female / male are the ones this law is intended to cover, not those that yell "i identify as [gender]" while presenting as the other gender.

Well in this situation does he legitimately identify as female or is he just being a dick?

Given that his response wasn't "i identify as female", but rather "you can't stop me, it's the law!".. why don't you take a guess?

[Shawken]

The guy may have been making a protest, but it brings up a good point about people railroading laws without really thinking of the outcome.

[1] Allowing a man to identify verbally as a woman doesn't really vet them being transgender. It sounds silly, but there has to be some way to catalog them as transgender. It should be on their license or something. If you don't have some sort of registration for your chosen sex, the employees can't really argue their gender. We apparently need a government department to vet if you are truly transgender.

[2] The article says the employees would basically use physical appearance and other things to identify as transgender. Does that mean we are now requiring people who are transgender to go through hormone therapy and/or surgery to validate them? That there are now milestones you much reach to have access to the bathroom you identify with?

I would be classified as a conservative/libertarian even though I don't oppose the idea of transgender and if identify as a woman having access to the women's bathroom. I just think we have devolved into the realm of idiocy at this point.

[Draeth]

DISCLAIMER: I know mods don't like gender identity discussions, but since we have a basis for this, and it isn't bashing we can keep it civil. Pinkie Promess.

Your 'pinkie promise' was broken before it was made, in the second post in the thread.

Pretty much, yeah.

I really don't see the value in letting someone pick any facility based on what they "identify" as. Just because it makes them feel comfortable? What about the absurdly huge overwhelming majority of people who are now made uncomfortable?

The value is in protecting people who are actually trans, as the rate of violent crime against trans people is an 'absurdly huge overwhelming' degree higher than against the general population, and regardless of anti-trans hysteria, there is absolutely no real-world precedent for trans people entering bathrooms for any reason other than to use the fucking bathroom.

[Belize]

Your 'pinkie promise' was broken before it was made, in the second post in the thread.


The value is in protecting people who are actually trans, as the rate of violent crime against trans people is an 'absurdly huge overwhelming' degree higher than against the general population, and regardless of anti-trans hysteria, there is absolutely no real-world precedent for trans people entering bathrooms for any reason other than to use the fucking bathroom.

Your definition of what constitutes bashing is... very... loose.

[RickJamesLich]

I still don't understand how being angry that you have a weener means that you know longer have one.

[zenkai]

On the other hand, it's pretty clear when someone is doing it to be a dick and to watch people undress for sexual reasons. Acting like intent isn't part and parcel of this law is pretty silly.

But how you define such thing in parameter of the law?

[Gadion]

I wonder if they can't take measures to prevent people from abusing the system.

This event transpired at some or another pool, I gather. If you require people to get a permit to enter this pool, you can make magnetic identity cards for each individual and these cards can then be used to access the bathroom. On your application you would be required to state your gender and the card is only valid for the bathroom of the gender you have chosen or something?

[Dug]

If a pervert wants to use the ladies room to be gross its gonna happen whether its allowed or not.

[lonely zergling]

They wanted this law and now they got it. Should have thought about the consequences before imho.

[mizeri]

The girls don't like penises in their locker rooms.

how dare you! a penis does not represent your gender