[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Gemini Soul]

There seems to be a lack of Feral parses using Brutal Slash since the July 17 nerf, even on those fights.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0

If those fights are perfect for Brutal Slash I would think people would take it on those fights.

Going thru some of the most recent logs for EN, its rare to find a Feral who has an uptime of 80%+ on bleeds

[Jarlhen]

I've just ran a bit of feral on live with 671 ilevel. So low ilevel and not being a druid main. Using bloodtalons and savage roar the spec seems unbelievably slow. It also seems entirely energy starved. To the point where keeping rip and savage roar up 100% is impossible. I can maybe do 50/50 or something along those lines. But both would frequently fall off as I simply didn't have the energy regen to use two finishers. This could be my low ilevel or me being a terrible druid. Which is why I'm here. In Legion, do feral have issues with energy regen? Is it difficult to keep up all your bleeds and savage roar and then also use other finishers on top?

[Gemini Soul]

I've just ran a bit of feral on live with 671 ilevel. So low ilevel and not being a druid main. Using bloodtalons and savage roar the spec seems unbelievably slow. It also seems entirely energy starved. To the point where keeping rip and savage roar up 100% is impossible. I can maybe do 50/50 or something along those lines. But both would frequently fall off as I simply didn't have the energy regen to use two finishers. This could be my low ilevel or me being a terrible druid. Which is why I'm here. In Legion, do feral have issues with energy regen? Is it difficult to keep up all your bleeds and savage roar and then also use other finishers on top?

Your using JW also i take it, on a pure single target patchwork fight JW/SR/BT is the best and with decent crit its hard but uptime isn't that hard to manage. It starts to take a dive when things like mechanics get in the way like adds and running out of bad etc.

What has me curious is how JW/SR mainly the SR part is on fights like HFA, Iskar, Archimode etc where there is adds and target switching. With its short duration of 24 seconds along with its huge Energy/CP cost compares to Incarnation/SoTF in those type of scenarios. You even have to take into account the wasted DPS associated with SR when you factor in things like moving out of bad and travel time to target IE:Takes you 5 seconds to get to target and that is ~5 seconds of SR wasting the resources used to get it up in the first place VS the CP/Energy spend on other dmg abilities.

[Reiziger]

I've just ran a bit of feral on live with 671 ilevel. So low ilevel and not being a druid main. Using bloodtalons and savage roar the spec seems unbelievably slow. It also seems entirely energy starved. To the point where keeping rip and savage roar up 100% is impossible. I can maybe do 50/50 or something along those lines. But both would frequently fall off as I simply didn't have the energy regen to use two finishers. This could be my low ilevel or me being a terrible druid. Which is why I'm here. In Legion, do feral have issues with energy regen? Is it difficult to keep up all your bleeds and savage roar and then also use other finishers on top?

I think I found your problem :P With the optimal talent setup and current tuning, RIP and Savage Roar will be the only finishers you will be using. Reapplying rip even outside pandemic windows is a greater DPS gain then casting Ferocious Nibble. The only exception to this is at <25% fases and when you are using berserk / bloodlust (the extra energy allows you to fb once or twice here). So in short, dont use ferocious bite in your normal rotation.

[idunnowatdo]

Is there any guide on artifact trait path?

[Tradu]

I've just ran a bit of feral on live with 671 ilevel. So low ilevel and not being a druid main. Using bloodtalons and savage roar the spec seems unbelievably slow. It also seems entirely energy starved. To the point where keeping rip and savage roar up 100% is impossible. I can maybe do 50/50 or something along those lines. But both would frequently fall off as I simply didn't have the energy regen to use two finishers. This could be my low ilevel or me being a terrible druid. Which is why I'm here. In Legion, do feral have issues with energy regen? Is it difficult to keep up all your bleeds and savage roar and then also use other finishers on top?

You don't use other finishers on top of SR/Rip until 25% of lower health of your target(at which point you Bite instead of Rip). Even in 640 boosted gear you can keep up SR+Rip+Rake up at 90%+, so it's just a practice thing, probably.

[Lucrece]

Probably stay away from lunar inspiration until you get more gear. Doing well at all with JW/SR/BT is still gear dependent, you can swap away from JW as well if you can't make the rotation.

SR and BT are not so bad, but it's the combination of those with Jagged Wounds that really strangles you on energy and cp.

[Gemini Soul]

Wonder why they haven't re-balanced and fixed the Feral artifact yet after the massive damage shift they did from instant dmg to bleeds.


Would it be better to use Moonfire in this scenario...Moonfire is on the target and not in pandemic, you are at 3 CP and have PS proc still ready. Rake is about to fall off, so you HT Rake Moonfire then Rip. This way you don't loose down time on Rake and both Rake + Rip are BT'ed.

Edit:It looks like Versatility does not increase the proc dmg from Ashamane's Bite, also it looks like it doesn't copy the bleed for the full duration and only from when it procs. IE Rip is 15 total, Ashamane's Bite procs at 10 so we get a AshRip duration of 10 instead of 15.

[Tradu]

Wonder why they haven't re-balanced and fixed the Feral artifact yet after the massive damage shift they did from instant dmg to bleeds.


Would it be better to use Moonfire in this scenario...Moonfire is on the target and not in pandemic, you are at 3 CP and have PS proc still ready. Rake is about to fall off, so you HT Rake Moonfire then Rip. This way you don't loose down time on Rake and both Rake + Rip are BT'ed.

Edit:It looks like Versatility does not increase the proc dmg from Ashamane's Bite, also it looks like it doesn't copy the bleed for the full duration and only from when it procs. IE Rip is 15 total, Ashamane's Bite procs at 10 so we get a AshRip duration of 10 instead of 15.

All of the stuff in the edit is accurate and intended. If it did increase with vers, it'd be double dipping, which it shouldn't. The duration thing is just because of the dumb way Blizzard made it work, having a fixed duration would be nice, though.

[Gemini Soul]

I don't get why people keep saying that LI makes Feral more complicated/difficult...MF is cheaper than shred, gives CP, doesn't eat BT like shred leaving the charges for bleeds. It's just 1 dot that you have to track.

I have mine set up in my WA package that tracks it with Rip, Rake, thrash and SR, i have it set so going from left to right is shortest to longest duration right above CP bar.

[teddabear]

it looks like it doesn't copy the bleed for the full duration and only from when it procs. IE Rip is 15 total, Ashamane's Bite procs at 10 so we get a AshRip duration of 10 instead of 15.

This is just bad design, this type of RNG is NotFun.

If they want to lower the damage just nerf the proc rate, don't use randomly partial bleeds.

[Deleted]

Still no changes to talents or the artifact since the dmg shift, getting to the point where i doubt they will adjust anything till weeks after raids open up

- - - Updated - - -

Still no changes to talents or the artifact since the dmg shift, getting to the point where i doubt they will adjust anything till weeks after raids open up.

Whats funny is

SR/JW/BT 201,111 DPS
SR/ST/BT 200,094 DPS

granted its early, but with these we can see gear, stats, APL etc.

Link to the sim it self

STOP FUCKING POSTING THESE YOU MORON. EVEN THE AMR GUY TOLD YOU TO STOP. ITS A DRAFT ROTATION.

This result used a draft rotation! Template/draft rotations should not be used for analysis.

THERES A GIANT ORANGE BANNER.

They're useless for any kind of analysis. just stahp.

[Gemini Soul]

STOP FUCKING POSTING THESE YOU MORON. EVEN THE AMR GUY TOLD YOU TO STOP. ITS A DRAFT ROTATION.

This result used a draft rotation! Template/draft rotations should not be used for analysis.

THERES A GIANT ORANGE BANNER.

They're useless for any kind of analysis. just stahp.

That was posted before Zoopercat said the APL wasn't finished...

[Arthael]

STOP FUCKING POSTING THESE YOU MORON. EVEN THE AMR GUY TOLD YOU TO STOP. ITS A DRAFT ROTATION.

This result used a draft rotation! Template/draft rotations should not be used for analysis.

THERES A GIANT ORANGE BANNER.

They're useless for any kind of analysis. just stahp.

Why so serious, mate?

[RayenDark]

I don't get why people keep saying that LI makes Feral more complicated/difficult...MF is cheaper than shred, gives CP, doesn't eat BT like shred leaving the charges for bleeds. It's just 1 dot that you have to track.

I have mine set up in my WA package that tracks it with Rip, Rake, thrash and SR, i have it set so going from left to right is shortest to longest duration right above CP bar.

I think people that are saying LI makes things 'difficult' don't realize that you drop bite out of the rotation until sub 25%.

LI/SR/JW/BT -is not only super energy friendly-oddly, but keeping up SR is never an issue because you aren't biting away CP or extra energy.

Using LI is a net -gain- of energy. It also allows you to PS on 3rd CP (Moonfire)-> BT Rake (4)->BT Rip(5) and lines up using said finisher very well.

As for 'Gear' it isn't an issue. I have 3 ferals- all at different gear levels (One 740+, ~720, ~705) my two weaker druids do not have tier or class trinket. None of them have issues keeping up LI/SR/JW W/ BT if you are playing correctly.

With the Legion invasions there is no reason to really be below the 700 ilvl. You get to ~695 with just the broken shore ring/demon trinket side quest.

[Gemini Soul]

I think people that are saying LI makes things 'difficult' don't realize that you drop bite out of the rotation until sub 25%.

LI/SR/JW/BT -is not only super energy friendly-oddly, but keeping up SR is never an issue because you aren't biting away CP or extra energy.

Using LI is a net -gain- of energy. It also allows you to PS on 3rd CP (Moonfire)-> BT Rake (4)->BT Rip(5) and lines up using said finisher very well.

That's why i love LI because it lets us have a lil more control over BT usage. Personally i will only run SR in a mostly ST raid encounter otherwise i will run my main build which is http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/druid/feral/MQCz

As for rotation, i just been dumping excess CP into SR. I did some testing with the Legendary Ring that gives +100 Energy in Feral and it does make room for Bites and makes the SR/JW play style easier with that extra 100 energy buffer we can pool n burn. I know the PS legendary is best but I've been testing the others to see how they play out, cause we can't target a specific Legendary and lets face it RNG is a red headed step child from the deepest pits of hell that doesn't use lube when they shaft us.

[RayenDark]

That's why i love LI because it lets us have a lil more control over BT usage. Personally i will only run SR in a mostly ST raid encounter otherwise i will run my main build which is http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/druid/feral/MQCz

As for rotation, i just been dumping excess CP into SR. I did some testing with the Legendary Ring that gives +100 Energy in Feral and it does make room for Bites and makes the SR/JW play style easier with that extra 100 energy buffer we can pool n burn. I know the PS legendary is best but I've been testing the others to see how they play out, cause we can't target a specific Legendary and lets face it RNG is a red headed step child from the deepest pits of hell that doesn't use lube when they shaft us.

Yea using SR for ST is the best imo.

I'm actually a fan of the CP gloves over the ring/boots but any combo is a nice boost.

[Gemini Soul]

Yea using SR for ST is the best imo.

I'm actually a fan of the CP gloves over the ring/boots but any combo is a nice boost.

CP Glvoes + Energy Ring would love to test that setup out because of the free CP and pooling i imagine we could dump a lot of bites out, with almost ZERO waste on SR and turning that waste into more DPS.

[Webdev]

Thanks mate. That's exactly what I had been worried about.
As much as I do love tanking as Guardian druid, those times I may be raiding as dps would become extremely frustrating.

You can try checking Balance now. It's been changed a lot, and i'd say simplified. Basically you just maintaining 2 dots now and then generating stuff with casts and spending them on hard hit abilities.

[teddabear]

CP Glvoes + Energy Ring would love to test that setup out because of the free CP and pooling i imagine we could dump a lot of bites out, with almost ZERO waste on SR and turning that waste into more DPS.

Unfortunately Ferocious Nibble is too weak for extra CP to scale correctly.