[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

so let me get this feral is going to get nerf in single target and be in the meters near the ww monk and others nieche specs like it was before? +

is this upcoming single target nerf already confirmed? it´d be quite sad to nerf a class in single target dmg when it´s already week in cleave and aoe :O

[shinedowNn]

is this upcoming single target nerf already confirmed? it´d be quite sad to nerf a class in single target dmg when it´s already week in cleave and aoe :O

this is the vibe i got from reading ppl comments saying its guaranteed, if this is the case i see no point on even trying to play the spec when its cant be compettive or near decent

[Deleted]

this is the vibe i got from reading ppl comments saying its guaranteed, if this is the case i see no point on even trying to play the spec when its cant be compettive or near decent

sad but true oO

[teddabear]

is this upcoming single target nerf already confirmed? it´d be quite sad to nerf a class in single target dmg when it´s already week in cleave and aoe :O

There will be no confirmation.

However Blizzard has never failed to nerf Feral single target once Rogues and Mages start complaining.

I am sure Blizzard is aware the Feral talent tree is off after the Bleed/ Shred hotfix, it's just on the backburner. But that doesn't necessarily mean they will adjust it in a way you expect, or that is consistent with the previous direction.

The problem is if it's not fixed before Live it probably won't be fixed until after the first week of raids. That is a lot of game time sunk into what may turn into a non-viable spec.

[Lucrece]

They just need to scrap savage roar and turn it into a suggestion I saw where it replaces Tiger fury for a 30% boost instead. If that leaves it weak just let it also reduce the cd of tiger's fury.

After that, BT can go burn in hell and be replaced by something less nonsensical than wasting a global on a heal to boost your damage, like every time you apply a finisher your dot ticks give you a combo point for the next 3-4 intervals.

[Arthael]

Savage Roar can just apply all bleeds on current target to all targets in a 6m radius, and the world will be beautiful.

[Deleted]

this is the vibe i got from reading ppl comments saying its guaranteed

No, People are just fucking retards. There is not and there will be no confirmation of any nerfs or buffs. Anything people say they're making it up, because nobody can no anything. Just like nobody new anything before the saturday launch tuning hotfixes.

They just need to scrap savage roar and turn it into a suggestion I saw where it replaces Tiger fury for a 30% boost instead. If that leaves it weak just let it also reduce the cd of tiger's fury.

After that, BT can go burn in hell and be replaced by something less nonsensical than wasting a global on a heal to boost your damage, like every time you apply a finisher your dot ticks give you a combo point for the next 3-4 intervals.

you. you are litteraly the cancer of this forums. Good god your suggestion is frankly the stupidest thing i've EVER read on this forums. And thats saying a fucking lot.

You're complaining about using a global on a spell to buff your damage (lets ignore that its a heal because that is PURELY a bonus) on a spec THAT ISN'T GLOBAL LOCKED. OH NO. I WASTED A GLOBAL THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING ON AND GOT A FREE 50% (FIFTY FUCKING PERCENT) DAMAGE INCREASE THAT SNAPSHOTS. MAN I'm so gutted by that. wasting a fucking global. Get the fuck out of here. And man. Getting a combo point for the next 3-4 intervals. Do you want us to just never ever cast shred? Like jesus H christ. This would turn us into a spec that only cast finishers. What a genius fucking idea.

Can people just stop with stupid fucking suggestions. Blizzard hate listening to suggestions, they've shown this time and time again, so the best and only way to effect change is to state the problems at the core, as opposed to giving a suggestion that may or may not solve the problem. Our primary problems are not AOE, we have fairly competitive burst AOE, and frankly who gives a flying FUCK about sustained aoe. Thats like 1 fight an expansion. Our primary problems, are the relative weakness of our version of stampeding roar against both shaman totem and guardian roar, and how awful our priority target damage is. These are the problems that feral have.

Now stop the stupid conspiracy theories about oh blizzard are nerfing us based on fucking fairies or some shit. Stop the stupid fucking suggestions, And focus on the actual class. Jesus christ.

[Rucktoe]

You're complaining about using a global on a spell to buff your damage (lets ignore that its a heal because that is PURELY a bonus) on a spec THAT ISN'T GLOBAL LOCKED. OH NO. I WASTED A GLOBAL THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING ON AND GOT A FREE 50% (FIFTY FUCKING PERCENT) DAMAGE INCREASE THAT SNAPSHOTS. MAN I'm so gutted by that. wasting a fucking global. Get the fuck out of here. And man. Getting a combo point for the next 3-4 intervals. Do you want us to just never ever cast shred? Like jesus H christ. This would turn us into a spec that only cast finishers. What a genius fucking idea.

Can people just stop with stupid fucking suggestions. Blizzard hate listening to suggestions, they've shown this time and time again, so the best and only way to effect change is to state the problems at the core, as opposed to giving a suggestion that may or may not solve the problem. Our primary problems are not AOE, we have fairly competitive burst AOE, and frankly who gives a flying FUCK about sustained aoe. Thats like 1 fight an expansion. Our primary problems, are the relative weakness of our version of stampeding roar against both shaman totem and guardian roar, and how awful our priority target damage is. These are the problems that feral have.

Now stop the stupid conspiracy theories about oh blizzard are nerfing us based on fucking fairies or some shit. Stop the stupid fucking suggestions, And focus on the actual class. Jesus christ.

I don't like the feel of having to cast it as well. It just isn't fun gameplay in my opinion. Your opinion may differ and that is fine.

[Chipies]

i actually like bloodtalons, savage roar on the other hand..........

[Tradu]

i actually like bloodtalons, savage roar on the other hand..........

And I like both BT and SR(although Legion SR definitely has some problems).

[Deleted]

BT is ok but Sr is a problem. SR is something blizzard was going away in all class designs even with feral SR is there in talents because they didn't have a better idea. Imho it can be replaced with something cool. Simply nerfing it would be shit idea.

[Blueredwolf]

BT is great gameplay and SR was too easy to maintain in WoD and now they are pushing to make it challenging in legion. The thing about a challenging spec is that it should feel very rewarding when executed properly, which I would say it does. However the feral opener doesn't feel rewarding, fun or even challenging. It's just annoying and a hassle. Having no SR on the pull doesn't make the spec more difficult, just a pain in the ass to work around getting it up before you start really going. I think blizzard has done a pretty good job of making the spec difficult, but a spec can be difficult while still maintaining some quality of life aspects.

[Gemini Soul]

BT is great gameplay and SR was too easy to maintain in WoD and now they are pushing to make it challenging in legion. The thing about a challenging spec is that it should feel very rewarding when executed properly, which I would say it does. However the feral opener doesn't feel rewarding, fun or even challenging. It's just annoying and a hassle. Having no SR on the pull doesn't make the spec more difficult, just a pain in the ass to work around getting it up before you start really going. I think blizzard has done a pretty good job of making the spec difficult, but a spec can be difficult while still maintaining some quality of life aspects.

Problem with making difficult spec is they don't do much more DPS if any than the others. Which is Feral is at now, others can do as much if not more dmg with out as much effort or OCD needed.

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BT is ok but Sr is a problem. SR is something blizzard was going away in all class designs even with feral SR is there in talents because they didn't have a better idea. Imho it can be replaced with something cool. Simply nerfing it would be shit idea.

They could swap SR with Elunes Guidance making the talent teirs a lil more balanced making the 90 teir about Finshers and the 75 teir about Energy control. SR could of been a replacement skill for TF, more %dmg increase more energy regen. As it stand we only run SR in a raid because for all other content Incarnation is better because of the massive CP/Energy Cost coupled with the short duration of SR.

Gameplay wise SR+ST make for a great pairing, but dps wise not so much.

[Lucrece]

BT is great gameplay and SR was too easy to maintain in WoD and now they are pushing to make it challenging in legion. The thing about a challenging spec is that it should feel very rewarding when executed properly, which I would say it does. However the feral opener doesn't feel rewarding, fun or even challenging. It's just annoying and a hassle. Having no SR on the pull doesn't make the spec more difficult, just a pain in the ass to work around getting it up before you start really going. I think blizzard has done a pretty good job of making the spec difficult, but a spec can be difficult while still maintaining some quality of life aspects.

Difficult specs are just specs with more hoops to jump.

The problem is that if you have more hoops to jump, you SHOULD have a much higher potential damage than a spec that rolls its face across the keyboard like demonhunters and vomit damage.

And that simply isn't the case. Feral only excels in single target sustained damage. A crappy niche for being the most difficult spec in the game.

[v1perz53]

They could swap SR with Elunes Guidance making the talent teirs a lil more balanced making the 90 teir about Finshers and the 75 teir about Energy control. SR could of been a replacement skill for TF, more %dmg increase more energy regen. As it stand we only run SR in a raid because for all other content Incarnation is better because of the massive CP/Energy Cost coupled with the short duration of SR.

I would like SR and Elune's Guidance to be swapped simply because I hate having SR/Jagged Wounds as a possible combo, they are such major antagonists to each other and play so poorly together. And I still think SR's duration is WAY too short at 24 seconds, though I guess with snapshotting it is much less punishing if it falls off than without. But if it really has to be 24 seconds, I do wish they would at least put the glyph functionality back in where any attack from stealth applies it, to at least ease some of the requirements on the opener.

[teddabear]

Our primary problems are not AOE, we have fairly competitive burst AOE, and frankly who gives a flying FUCK about sustained aoe. Thats like 1 fight an expansion. Our primary problems, are the relative weakness of our version of stampeding roar against both shaman totem and guardian roar, and how awful our priority target damage is. These are the problems that feral have.

I would say Brutal Slash needs at least 4 charges to have good burst after the nerf. Sustained AoE will absolutely be an issue in Mythic+ which is a substantial amount of comment. If I could choose Priority Target vs AOE which would I choose? Priority Target absolutely. However Blizzard has missed the boat on that one. They said they could fix it with tuning and as most Ferals suspected they were wrong. They could have added talents and/or artifact traits for Priority Target damage but they didn't. At this point I see no way for Feral to have good priority target damage in Legion. Since Feral got boned on that one yet again, I think it should have top tier AoE. Since it has a level 100 AoE talent this is easily achievable.

Regarding single target being high that seems to be a consensus of opinions but there isn't much hard data at the higher gear levels. Also some of the data is no good because of people using T18 scaled up to higher item levels.

[Celestraza]

I just don't understand our entire tier talent design.

I don't understand why 3 talents that have an impact on energy such as Soul of the Forest (SotF), Elune's Guidance (EG) and Moment of Clarity (MoC) have to be in 3 different tiers. It makes no sense to have these spread all over our talent tree when it seems to me that they should be in 1 talent row. Choosing sustained passive, CD bursty or passive bursty respectively.

I also don't understand why 3 talents that are so strong and impact our gameplay/rotation such as Jagged Wounds (JW), Bloodtalons (BT) and Savage Roar (SR) also have to be spread across 3 different tiers. Again it seems to me that such powerfull talents that change rotation/gameplay entirely should be in 1 talent row.

With it setup this way you could match an energy talent of your choice with a gameplay altering talent of your choice. Not to mention they seem entirely easier to balance this way. It makes more sense for me that if you choose Jagged Wounds, that you then get to choose between SotF, EG or MoC to go along with your choice.

Even the leftover talents would make more sense. It would grant you either single target burst (Incarnation), single target sustained (Sabertooth) or AoE burst (Brutal Slash). All of them being situational. Though I would much rather see Brutal Slash being baseline as a finisher and be replaced in the tier by an AoE Lunar Inspiration (AoE moonfire) turning this talent tier into a choice of single target burst, single target sustained or extra sustained AoE. Heck so much more possibilities and easier to balance....

I also do not understand the point of Renewal...can anyone explain the purpose of this talent?

I just can't wrap my head around ferals anymore, I just don't get it to the point where I probably am just not suited to play feral anymore.

[Deleted]

Problem with making difficult spec is they don't do much more DPS if any than the others. Which is Feral is at now, others can do as much if not more dmg with out as much effort or OCD needed.

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They could swap SR with Elunes Guidance making the talent teirs a lil more balanced making the 90 teir about Finshers and the 75 teir about Energy control. SR could of been a replacement skill for TF, more %dmg increase more energy regen. As it stand we only run SR in a raid because for all other content Incarnation is better because of the massive CP/Energy Cost coupled with the short duration of SR.

Gameplay wise SR+ST make for a great pairing, but dps wise not so much.

To achieve this they would need to swap MoC and Incarnation also, and it would be a question JW or SR + BT or Inc + whatever you like in 75. I could live with it.

The "complexity argument" is imho bit BS, it only would make sense if Feral would do 10% more DPS than next in line 2 person doing perfect rotation. You have a risk and reward. But feral is not only complex but also insanely punishing. If you fail you gets punished harder than a bootcamp.

[Raggon]

How are ferals looking for 5 man mythics+? I am guessing horrible

[teddabear]

How are ferals looking for 5 man mythics+? I am guessing horrible

On Warcraftlogs for the parses that use Brutal Slash the Feral is getting out DPS'd by 40-50%.

Blizzard would have to triple the damage of Brutal Slash for them to match the top DPS in the parses. (i.e. Brutal Slash did 60 million damage and they got out DPS'd by 120 million)

Most aren't even taking Brutal Slash now. You are better off with Jagged Wounds/Savage Roar/Blood Talons and trying to tab Rake with Blood Talons while maintaining a super short Savage Roar.

Doesn't that sound like fun? That is an interesting definition of streamlining gameplay.