Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Fascinate]

Your assumption is that every person who tried an MMO in the past, still wants to - especially to "relive" the past. This is pure comjecture on your part. I see no indication there's a pent up demand for MMOs - based on the real data from teh real world that shows that interest in MMO's has been waning steadily and consistently over the last decade.

You don't base multi-million dollar game budgets on 'I think" - which is what your statements really are, because you can't prove them factually.

And, WoW's rise is not perplexing analysts, it's been discussed often and in depth. They know why it took off - it was the right time, it was casual friendly, and it struck the right chord in the public with the mix of cartoon and humor and high fantasy.

Why do you keep saying mmo's in the general sense lol? This is WoW, this isnt some run of the mill mmo. And no no one has any idea about why took off, it was just a perfect storm and the details of that storm are still hidden to the industry as none have come close to replicating its success.

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@Gadzooks, i was responding to this line:

They stated pretty plainly that it's too much work, and too costly.

Of course they are going to say something like that, like i said this is blizzcon worthy news.

[Roadblock]

I see no indication there's a pent up demand for MMOs - based on the real data from teh real world that shows that interest in MMO's has been waning steadily and consistently over the last decade.

Still talking through the wrong hole I see..
Nice to have some poster consistency in this thread.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-mmo-revenues/
http://superdata-research.myshopify....iant=920229831

"Oh woe is me, WoW is not doing stellar so all mmos are dying"

[Holtzmann]

Still talking through the wrong hole I see..
Nice to have some poster consistency in this thread.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-mmo-revenues/
http://superdata-research.myshopify....iant=920229831

"Oh woe is me, WoW is not doing stellar so all mmos are dying"

[...] The favorites in this category include "League of Legends", "Crossfire" or "World of Warcraft" [...]
[...] Massive Multiplayer Online games (MMOs) encompass a wide range of game genres, including role-playing, shooters and, a recently emerged category called MOBAs that include wildly popular titles like League of Legends and Dota 2.[...]

Hmmm... I think there's a problem with the nomenclature here. Specifically, the difference between MMOs and MMORPGs. Match-based MMOs are doing fine. World of Tanks, all the MOBAs out there, for example. Meanwhile, the market for open-world MMORPGs seems to be smaller and more saturated than it was back when World of Warcraft was new.

[Roadblock]

He didn't say the market is more saturated or there's more offerings on the table, he said interest has been waning steadily and consistently over the last decade which is demonstrably false.
You should also take it up with Blizzard, they're the ones that have been trying to turn WoW into a mobile/arpg/moba/action mmo clone.

(Which is also part of the reason some of their game's original audience is hanging out in this thread)

Spoiler: 

[Holtzmann]

He didn't say the market is more saturated or there's more offerings on the table, he said interest has been waning steadily and consistently over the last decade which is demonstrably false.

Do you have anything that's 1- not behind a paywall and 2- conflating MMORPGs with MMOs in general? Because the things I quoted there make it clear that they are lumping those together. We're talking about MMORPGs here, not World of Tanks or League of Legends.

[slaise1]

You say that with no real data to back it up. The people who DO have that information, especially to the cost, have said it's too expensive and too much work.

You do understand that Blizzard has people in the executive office who's job is to research things like this, right? And their decisions are based on that?

But you know better.

Ofc, I'm a Goblin. I have a nose for these kind of things.

OT: I believe what others have wrote. Vanilla will be profitable but they don't want to cannibalize their own product. Even though my opinion is that they can coexist.

[Mahourai]

Except the countless number of people that have played and since quit the largest MMO of all time, that want to relive the feeling they had from the good old days.

This does not demonstrate a demand for it to be relaunched, though, precisely because it is "countless".

[Vineri]

Here is the crazy thing with legacy servers, sure a lot of people from live would play them but you need to think about how many people have played this game and quit since 2004 and crave that feeling they once had. Blizz could charge 100 bucks to access the servers and people WOULD pay it lol. Now that isnt to say these same people wouldnt quit a month or two after legacy servers launched, but the cash grab blizzard could get is astronomical levels. This is why i am confident classic servers will happen at some point, financially speaking they cant afford not to do them.

I'm sure some would pay $100, but I wouldn't, even though I'd love to see Legacy happen. I think it would be more on-par with Legions, as global access via BattleNet. What better way to get people to play a game they wouldn't otherwise? I think it's every marketers dream to have something to pull others in, in order to promote current retail products.

One purchase for the latest WoW covers everything, IMO. Price it too high and you ask the horse to break leg before the gate even opens.

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This does not demonstrate a demand for it to be relaunched, though, precisely because it is "countless".

Nostalgia is a real thing. Ask people why they are buying old games digitally, when new ones are available?

[Mahourai]

Nostalgia is a real thing.

But not a measurable or meaningful thing, in this case.

[Holtzmann]

Assuming Legacy servers are actually released, I wonder whether there would be the same discussions, complaints and requests in the forums as there were in Vanilla. Will folks be asking for flight there, too?

[Vineri]

But not a measurable or meaningful thing, in this case.

Measurable? Difficulty there.. Trial and Error shows the results. Only end results show mesureability.

Not Meaningful? Tell Nintendo their Virtual Console isn't meaningful (or profitable)... Same with other platforms by other game companies, like Sony ... Not meaningful .. hahah! =)

"Meaningful" keeps fans coming back to their old products, promoting brand loyalty.

I'm not really sure what you even intended to say with your post, other than to snip at retro fans.

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Assuming Legacy servers are actually released, I wonder whether there would be the same discussions, complaints and requests in the forums as there were in Vanilla. Will folks be asking for flight there, too?

only newbs would ask for flight in Vanilla. I don't think such an issue would be entertained very well to the recipient.

[Eleccybubb]

Measurable? Difficulty there.. Trial and Error shows the results. Only end results show mesureability.

Not Meaningful? Tell Nintendo their Virtual Console isn't meaningful (or profitable)... Same with other platforms by other game companies, like Sony ... Not meaningful .. hahah! =)

"Meaningful" keeps fans coming back to their old products, promoting brand loyalty.

I'm not really sure what you even intended to say with your post, other than to snip at retro fans.

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only newbs would ask for flight in Vanilla. I don't think such an issue would be entertained very well to the recipient.

This is the problem though. There are people asking for stupid shit like LFD, Flight, LFR, removal of ammo, reagents and other stupid shit if they make a vanilla though.

[KayRule]

Vanilla just wasn't a good game. Alot of people don't realize this because they didn't get to play it, and those that did were too young to be able to do all the content. It's become a meme, to claim it was better before they changed everything. They see everyone saying it was better so they start parroting it.

The truth is Nostalrius only did so well because it was free. Nobody would pay consistent monthly sub for Vanilla wow. It's shown how delusional people are whenever I mention this just say "Yeah, are you implying they would charge a sub? It'd obviously be a one time payment" or think they could use WoW tokens......fucking delusion.

[Vineri]

Vanilla just wasn't a good game. Alot of people don't realize this because they didn't get to play it, and those that did were too young to be able to do all the content. It's become a meme, to claim it was better before they changed everything. They see everyone saying it was better so they start parroting it.

The truth is Nostalrius only did so well because it was free. Nobody would pay consistent monthly sub for Vanilla wow. It's shown how delusional people are whenever I mention this just say "Yeah, are you implying they would charge a sub? It'd obviously be a one time payment" or think they could use WoW tokens......fucking delusion.

Unless you provide proof to such absurd claims, I think it is yourself who is delusional. All I see it someones opinionated personal rants, without any shred of evidence as to how Anyone other than yourself feels.

[Shridevi]

Even though we disagree on some things, I am glad that this thread is alive, because I am passionate about vanilla WoW. Better to have debate than to have no one care about it at all. It's kind of surprising to me that people feel the same affinity, or that they're at least willing to consider how legacy servers would impact their Legion experience. Even though I am not interested in Legion at the moment, I think that all of us would be sad if WoW actually died. We don't want that to happen, and I respect those who are current engrossed in Legion content.

There have been a lot of points that have arisen in the Nost community which I guess others haven't been introduced to. Many of us paid for vanilla WoW (along with many months of subscriptions), but there is no legal way to play it. We can take out N64 and play Ocarina of Time, or PS1 and play FF7, but there is no legal way to play this legendary game which we paid for. The terms of service are obvious, but really there is no precedent for this sort of thing in terms of "replayability." Blizzard has control of the IP which encompasses or threatens every private server. Even those who use private servers, deep down we want the real, validated experience without feeling like a pirate.

I know at least two people from my main vanilla guild who have died. Life is short, games don't really mean anything, but many of us want to take refuge in one well-design iteration of WoW (for its time), to maybe chill out after work. It has needlessly become an emotional topic because no MMO has really come close. Skyrim, for example, was amazing, but it's a solo experience. Almost all of us would love a WoW 2 or a next gen MMO, but that hasn't been promised or delivered yet. Blizzard has always had a WIERD, intimate relationship with its fanbase because we need them and they need us. I just hope they are willing to acknowledge our dedication instead of fearing their company losses.

[Mahourai]

Measurable? Difficulty there.. Trial and Error shows the results. Only end results show mesureability.

Not Meaningful? Tell Nintendo their Virtual Console isn't meaningful (or profitable)... Same with other platforms by other game companies, like Sony ... Not meaningful .. hahah! =)

Unless WoW is a Super NES game coming out on the virtual console, no, Nintendo's sales have nothing to do with whether legacy WoW is economically viable.

[KayRule]

Unless you provide proof to such absurd claims, I think it is yourself who is delusional. All I see it someones opinionated personal rants, without any shred of evidence as to how Anyone other than yourself feels.

Are you willing to promise, right now, if Blizzard brought back vanilla legacy servers on Naxx patch with no bug fixes and no future content you would pay a monthly sub?

Didn't think so.

[Deleted]

I am confused. You believe that Blizzard has all the patches to make the 'legacy' server. You believe the amount of resources to make a 'legacy' server happen are quite few. And, you believe that there exists a huge demand for a 'legacy' server. Then, why don't they make a 'legacy' server? It seems stupid not to.

Either that, or you are making wrong assumptions.

They have all the major data, just supposedly missing the values of spells dmg and other minor stuff like that, but blizz also claimed to be missing all the major data from past expansions at some point, and one day they came out and said that they add it after all(no surprise there you don't just delete all the past data when developing a game) , so the things that they claim to be missing right now could actually exist.

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This is the problem though. There are people asking for stupid shit like LFD, Flight, LFR, removal of ammo, reagents and other stupid shit if they make a vanilla though.

and the answer those people his, you get what you had in 2004 if you don't like it don't play it. Adding those things to legacy servers would defeat the their purpose.

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Are you willing to promise, right now, if Blizzard brought back vanilla legacy servers on Naxx patch with no bug fixes and no future content you would pay a monthly sub?

Didn't think so.

Naxx patch?, no bug fixes?, where the hell did you get this from, Ofc if they release it they will fix the bugs , it's blizz ffs, also they will not release it in the naxx patch if they release it they will make it a progression server going trough all the patch content.....

[Kyanion]

Naxx patch?, no bug fixes?, where the hell did you get this from, Ofc if they release it they will fix the bugs , it's blizz ffs, also they will not release it in the naxx patch if they release it they will make it a progression server going trough all the patch content.....

You heard it here first from jpedrote52 the Blizzard employee!

[Deleted]

You heard it here first from jpedrote52 the Blizzard employee!

spot on mate