Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Huehuecoyotl]

5 min. blessings are an example of something I would expect blizz to be strongly tempted to review even in a non-frankenstein legacy release. that said, does making them longer effectively nerf raid encounters over 4.x minutes?

The problem is, if the Blizzard of today start "reviewing" things about a Vanilla version they decided to release, would you trust them not to go overboard and gut what actually made Vanilla good?

[voidillusion]

The problem is, if the Blizzard of today start "reviewing" things about a Vanilla version they decided to release, would you trust them not to go overboard and gut what actually made Vanilla good?

I don't have any issue with the 5 minute blessings or shouts for that matter, or 10 min thorns. It's just part of a package of spells you have to manage during a long fight if needed. Don't see the issue to be honest.

[Granyala]

The problem is, if the Blizzard of today start "reviewing" things about a Vanilla version they decided to release, would you trust them not to go overboard and gut what actually made Vanilla good?

Considering that the people who work at Blizzard are not the people that designed Vanilla WoW any longer, their vision would be imprinted and change the game as soon as they start editing it.

The revamped character models showed that quite clearly.

[Deficineiron]

Even Fozruk was reduced from elite to a normal mob with TBC. Unnecessary in my opinion, but maybe numbers state differently. I have no memory how hard it was to find a group to kill him in TBC. I believe all my toons had already passed beyond that point by then.

And this wasn't even a hostile elite. Necessary for a quest though, so maybe that did him in.

I was on an alt in mid-tbc period and had issues finding, on a mid pop server, groups for zone elite area quests. certainly leveled though some zones without being able to do them. As much as I would prefer group areas, I do understand why blizzard neutered those areas in 2.3.

Now as far as why neuter the elites outside of instances?

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is, if the Blizzard of today start "reviewing" things about a Vanilla version they decided to release, would you trust them not to go overboard and gut what actually made Vanilla good?

I certainly made my view clear on that issue. We get Frankenstein servers.

[Grofatso]

I find it likely that with addons and macros the shouts and blessings would be just a you could semi-automate if you so wished. After all, there would be an actual reason to improve the addons from way back.

If it ever came to an actual classic server coming, I'd have it in the original way, not tampered at all.

[Teri]

I don't have any issue with the 5 minute blessings or shouts for that matter, or 10 min thorns. It's just part of a package of spells you have to manage during a long fight if needed. Don't see the issue to be honest.

Blizz did change buffs quality of life over the course of vanilla so it all depends what version they base the game off.
- Gift of the wild : 1.2 (1.3 Party)
- Prayer of Fortitude : 1.2 (1.3 Party)
- Arcane Brilliance 1.4
- 15 minute raid blessings in 1.9.

[Deleted]

3.0 release date : 15/10/2008
WOTLK release date : 13/11/2008
While 3.0 is WOTLK pre patch, it still is TBC.

This ladies and gentlemen is a prime example where legacy-loving-blizzard-haters dont accept facts.

Actually, the events that led up to WotLK, including the logon screen, and pre-expansion quests are still TBC.

No, they are NOT. events leading to wotlk are - gues what? - correct wotlk.

I do think they were nonelites but since they were 5? mobs, even in a non elite state they were deadly to leveling characters. :X

they where elite and deadly as hell. thats the thing that died with cata. elite-quests ;/

[Granyala]

While 3.0 is WOTLK pre patch, it still is TBC.

No. x.0 is the beginn of the new expansion cycle, hence the change in main version number.

3.0 was Wrath, except that the new continent is not yet unlocked. Everything else (talent changes etc) was already there.

[AeneasBK]

No. x.0 is the beginn of the new expansion cycle, hence the change in main version number.

3.0 was Wrath, except that the new continent is not yet unlocked. Everything else (talent changes etc) was already there.

*shrug* thats totally a matter of opinion on what makes an expansion. Sure we could ride about in Shattrath on our Albino Drake mounts and people could spec Exotic beast mastery and jog about with their Devilsaurs; but try and tell ... anyone ... before Northrend was available that Wrath had "started" and they'd call you an idiot and rightly so

[AeneasBK]

the term pre patch is self explanatory really, i see only one idiot in this equation

Well by all means wax philosophical as we lack at ime machine. But we can try it if Blizzard release another expansion. When the prepatch is live, go into trade and start saying "YAY THE NEW EXPANSION IS HERE ALREADY!" and judge the responses you get. I'd imagine it will be much as I predicted

If in 3.0 before Wrath of the Lich King launched you'd tried to explain to anyone that the expansion had already started because "Look see, all the feature changes and talent changes etc. are already in game!" I wouldn't see you having much success.

It's a wonder there's so much server instability on the (actual) launch nights seeing as the expansions had started weeks previously. Oh no wait they hadn't and this is all posturing

Like, don't get me wrong, you can look back historically and say "Well the *real* start of Wrath of the Lich King was when the pre-patch landed" but you are arguing as moot a point as saying "Well Wrath of the Lich King started when towards the end of Vanilla they started cobbling together some ideas for the expansion that would follow TBC"

[Granyala]

*shrug* thats totally a matter of opinion on what makes an expansion. Sure we could ride about in Shattrath on our Albino Drake mounts and people could spec Exotic beast mastery and jog about with their Devilsaurs; but try and tell ... anyone ... before Northrend was available that Wrath had "started" and they'd call you an idiot and rightly so

Uuh yeah, Wrath had started. All that was left in these few weeks was to get acquainted with your changed class, mop up a few bosskills (DAT 30% meganerf) and, in the case of TBC, start Achivement hunting,

It certainly felt as if TBC had ended to me, though your mileage may vary, as it is indeed somewhat open to interpretation

FACT of the matter is, is that these pre patches are a weird limbo place. Not TBC (b/c everything had changed and was nerfed to hell) and not Wrath (b/c new content still under wraps).

[Kyanion]

Well by all means wax philosophical as we lack at ime machine. But we can try it if Blizzard release another expansion. When the prepatch is live, go into trade and start saying "YAY THE NEW EXPANSION IS HERE ALREADY!" and judge the responses you get. I'd imagine it will be much as I predicted

If in 3.0 before Wrath of the Lich King launched you'd tried to explain to anyone that the expansion had already started because "Look see, all the feature changes and talent changes etc. are already in game!" I can't see you ahving much success.

Haha pretty much. I never really thought Legion was here in the last month or so of WoD when we got to play around with the talent changes/spell changes and DHs. I thought Legion was here when you know the expansion ACTUALLY started on release day.

- - - Updated - - -

Uuh yeah, Wrath had started. All that was left in these few weeks was to get acquainted with your changed class, mop up a few bosskills (DAT 30% meganerf) and, in the case of TBC, start Achivement hunting,

It certainly felt as if TBC had ended to me, though your mileage may vary, as it is indeed somewhat open to interpretation

FACT of the matter is, is that these pre patches are a weird limbo place. Not TBC (b/c everything had changed and was nerfed to hell) and not Wrath (b/c new content still under wraps).

Yeah I'd agree limbo is the proper choice. It really wasn't TBC anymore but it wasn't quite WotLK either. It was a hybrid of both until WotLK actually launched.

[Mahourai]

This is mostly academic, but it's obvious that pre-patches are the following expansion. Otherwise Demon Hunters were introduced in Warlords of Draenor, Monks were introduced in Cataclysm, and reforging and the mastery stat are Wrath of the Lich King features.

[AeneasBK]

Given the constantly changing state of the game, using that argument, basically every expansion is limbo throughout; depending on your perspective. I understand (as an example) that the first patch of TBC (2.1.x) brought HUGE changes to the way feral worked for druids, for a brief period bear tanks were utterly OP before they tweaked it again (or maybe they were utterly UP, all I know is they were totally out of whack). So the start of TBC for druids was a totally different game to a few patches later.

The only consistent way to measure it is "When the game came out it was Vanilla until TBC launched" "It was TBC from the moment TBC launched until Wrath launched"

It's also pretty straightforward.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing that is lacking here is comming sense

Ok hun .

- - - Updated - - -

This is mostly academic, but it's obvious that pre-patches are the following expansion. Otherwise Demon Hunters were introduced in Warlords of Draenor, Monks were introduced in Cataclysm, and reforging and the mastery stat are Wrath of the Lich King features.

Pretty sure you couldn't roll a monk until MoP you know... launched. Same with DKs. I guess this only falls apart because WoD was soooo shit and the content drought so extreme they had to let people roll DH's early just to give them anything to do

[Ielenia]

they'd call you an idiot and rightly so

Yeah... with a title screen showing Icecrown and a frozen wasteland, Sindragosa flying around, ice/winter-y themed title music, all features of the expansion save the new continent and levels unlocked, patch version being 3.0 and, last but not least, the title being "World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King"... no, it's still Burning Crusade. For some reason.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess this only falls apart because WoD was soooo shit and the content drought so extreme they had to let people roll DH's early just to give them anything to do

Love the cherry picking. "WoD and DHs don't count because WoD was shit."

[AeneasBK]

Yeah... with a title screen showing Icecrown and a frozen wasteland, Sindragosa flying around, ice/winter-y themed title music, all features of the expansion save the new continent and levels unlocked, patch version being 3.0 and, last but not least, the title being "World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King"... no, it's still Burning Crusade. For some reason.

Have another go

- - - Updated - - -

Love the cherry picking. "WoD and DHs don't count because WoD was shit."

The alternative being WotLK and MoP don't count because they go against my argument?

[Mahourai]

Pretty sure you couldn't roll a monk until MoP you know... launched.

You're right. There were plenty of other MoP features in the prepatch though, like the MoP talent trees, splitting Bear and Cat into two different specs, auto-learning spells, PVP power, the removal of relic slots, AoE looting, etc.

Again, this is completely academic, but officially the prepatches are the first patch of the new expansion. There is no debating this. "Frozen state" servers would also clearly not treat the prepatch as the final state of the previous expansion, because it would lead to silly things like a "Wrath of the Lich King" server where you reforged your gear and wanted mastery.

[AeneasBK]

Again, this is completely academic, but officially the prepatches are the first patch of the new expansion. There is no debating this.

No worries; it wasn't an interesting topic particularly anyway; and certainly it's academic

"Frozen state" servers would also clearly not treat the prepatch as the final state of the previous expansion, because it would lead to silly things like a "Wrath of the Lich King" server where you reforged your gear and wanted mastery.

No; I'd still maintain that the way to make legacy servers "work" in terms of longevity would be to introduce a timeline for each one and then simply run seasons with a complete reset back to 1.0 or wherever it launched and then progress through on an accelerated timeline (maybe 30-50% faster) through to 1.12 over the course of what, 12-16 months. A fresh start with a new server race would be appealing; and for people who join the bandwagon later, a server where there aren't already bored lvl 60's sat in the early contested zone quest hubs farming lvl 16-20 of the oposing faction would be appealing.

A "frozen state" server would lose it's appeal way too fast; if only because joining a realm with all the guilds set up for years; the economy already in the grips of whichever AH kingpins are running the show and all the other little issues of joining the party late isn't as even a playing field as joining a fresh one.

[Tackhisis]

the scholomance 'revamp.' go from non-linear dungeon, lots of dead ends

The Scholomance was a linear dungeon with a couple of side rooms. Now it is just less boring.

[Deleted]

This ladies and gentlemen is a prime example where legacy-loving-blizzard-haters dont accept facts.

I gave you hard facts. What is this ? kindergarten ?

The pre expansion period is still the current expansion, but it s referred to the pre extension period. Else, WOTLK release date would have been 15/10/2008 and not one month later.

so blizz introduce specs for just the sake of it or what?

The class system in vanilla was broken, and yes i mean class. Even that shit with hybrid/buff clases they dont think it through, 5 mins blessing for content that it supposed to be last several hours? Genius game design right here

The "specs system", which was referred to as "talent trees" in vanilla was meant to allow the players to reinforce some aspects of their class. Also, nobody here claims that the old talents were perfect.

No; I'd still maintain that the way to make legacy servers "work" in terms of longevity would be to introduce a timeline for each one and then simply run seasons with a complete reset back to 1.0 or wherever it launched and then progress through on an accelerated timeline (maybe 30-50% faster) through to 1.12 over the course of what, 12-16 months. A fresh start with a new server race would be appealing; and for people who join the bandwagon later, a server where there aren't already bored lvl 60's sat in the early contested zone quest hubs farming lvl 16-20 of the oposing faction would be appealing.

The idea that a game must evolve to be successful is kinda a myth which was introduced to make the upkeeping of a developer team viable. But in truth you could perfectly imagine a stagnant server. People would come and go as they please and that's quite fine actually.