Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Namalia]

Now this thing is going places. The tears are real.

LOL! I know. And the Nost/PS crowd keeps going on and on about how their community is SOOOOOO much better.

The members of that community posting here, on Reddit, and on Facebook are certainly not showing that.

[Darkeon]

LOL! I know. And the Nost/PS crowd keeps going on and on about how their community is SOOOOOO much better.

The members of that community posting here, on Reddit, and on Facebook are certainly not showing that.

Both sides have people\trolls who escalate the discussion, be it on purpose to agitate the posters, or because they feel heavily about the subject.
Don't try to spin this into something that it's not.

[Goondicker]

Someone believes in unicorns....and scapegoats called Blizzard.
So, there are 5 people in this thread alone that want Taylor Swift to be in the playboy must she follow that demand?....
cause the petition will CHANGE the world.....or not at all....

I believe in unicorns? I'm scapegoating Blizzard? How could you possibly get that from what I posted?

I never once said Blizzard "must" make legacy servers. Just that there is a desire for them.

As for the petition, it might change something or it might not. I would bet that if 10 million people signed it, they would heavily consider making legacy servers. So, we can deduce that there is some point between 0 and 10M signatures that it will have an effect. Whether or not it reaches that point is based on how many sign and where that point is for Blizzard.

If you're trying to make an argument against private servers, do it in a way that makes some logical sense. Otherwise you'll just hurt your argument.

[zorkuus]

LOL! I know. And the Nost/PS crowd keeps going on and on about how their community is SOOOOOO much better.

The members of that community posting here, on Reddit, and on Facebook are certainly not showing that.

But they're benevolent people, just keep that in mind.

[Lorianus]

Now this thing is going places. The tears are real.

Must be that wonderful nostralius community we hear so much about the last 3 days.

[Traveler Voltin]

Why? I'm invested enough in the world to commit to playing two separate versions of the game.

there are other things i could call you.
so lets just stay with confused. maybe conflicted.

[Deleted]

Now this thing is going places. The tears are real.

Your entire stance in this thread "Yeah whatever fuck you I'm a blizzard fanboy". It is tiresome.

[Kelz]

Generally it is accountable with "reasonable" measure.

Banks have safes and security guards, so, most of the time it is fine. However, if one day somehow someone got a mini army and a tank and broke through those systems, can you really blame the bank for failing to protect against that? They only need to show they have provided reasonable measures to protect the money.

In Blizzard's case, people with knowledge of computer science can easily buy a copy of the game, and reverse engineer a lot of the stuff from the game, what could be a reasonable measure against this? That is why it is very hard to say it is Blizzard's fault to make it too easily stolen, because of what it is, it is going to be easily stolen.

Sorry I mean through data encryption or something like that. Obviously a bank won't hold up to two tanks and a 100-person army lol. But it sounds pretty easy to dabble in some coding if you're experienced enough to do it. Nostalrius developers were highly skilled, so I assume it wasn't that difficult for them to do.

[Granyala]

Are you.... comparing the fact that we can't change reality and travel in time, to the act of releasing a Server with a virtual game in a previous version of it..? Oh.

He is saying that the past cannot be recreated.

Even if Blizzard were to release an official Vanilla server RIGHT NOW. You cannot recreate the glory days of old Vanilla.

Why?
Not because the game changed.
Because we all as players changed. A LOT.

Retail and the evolution of retail has influenced us all. We are not the same innocent, curious, uneducated noobs we once were. If we were to go into a vanilla server right now, every one of us knew EXACTLY what to expect, what to do and subsequently our whole approach to the game would be completely different.

[Mullet Man]

To make your analogy work, you'd break into Coke's warehouse, stole the syrup and equipment to make Coke, and started making it and selling it out of your garage.

I didn't claim anyone stole their code. You said it's "Murky", I said it's not, at all.

What?
You claimed that for my analogy to work you would have to steal. I replied to that.

[Grym]

Blizzard constantly rip off the IP of other MMO's. Indeed they cannibalized a lot of EQ in their early stages. They do it essentially legally.

The difference between technically legal and illegal is not terribly great in any kind of objective moral outlook.

As I have posted my stance before, legality is my moral baseline.

ALL companies will find out where is the boarderline for something to be illegal, then satisfy all requirements needed to make it legal, while could still be morally wrong to some.

But everyone's moral is different, so it is very hard to decide what is morally right and what is morally wrong. However legality right and wrong is a very defined outline, therefore that should be the only measure being used to define something is right or not.

And yes I do support tax avoidance for the same reason.

[zorkuus]

Your entire stance in this thread "Yeah whatever fuck you I'm a blizzard fanboy". It is tiresome.

This fanboy hates WoD. how is this possibru?

[Darkeon]

He is saying that the past cannot be recreated.

Even if Blizzard were to release an official Vanilla server RIGHT NOW. You cannot recreate the glory days of old Vanilla.

Why?
Not because the game changed.
Because we all as players changed. A LOT.

Retail and the evolution of retail has influenced us all. We are not the same innocent, curious, uneducated noobs we once were. If we were to go into a vanilla server right now, every one of us knew EXACTLY what to expect, what to do and subsequently our whole approach to the game would be completely different.

And that's one reason as of why Vanilla Servers wouldn't do it for me. I've experienced back then. I played it to obnoxious levels, I feel I drained all the fun I can get out of the experience.

However, apparently, these people are able to genuinely enjoy it more than they would enjoy retail. And I'm not about to start stating that what they feel is false.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

This might be a wild twist to the discussion, but should Blizzard be at fault for not protecting their copyright in the first place? If Coke left the doors to its factory wide open, and someone came in and "stole their secret formula", would you be like "hey wait a sec, why the hell were your doors open and not locked?"

Wild assumption, and I am assuming they have security measures to protect it, and I don't fully know how they got their hands on their property. However, violating a copyright is not the same as physically breaking and entering, stealing whatever formula they have, and then reproducing and selling their end product. Again, Nostalrius volunteered their development time, server funds were paid out of pocket, and the end product was released to the public for free.

The formula and idea for coke is the same as the code and IP.

Physically breaking and entering really isn't that different here. It'd be similar to copying the code or whatnot.

[Mullet Man]

He is saying that the past cannot be recreated.

Even if Blizzard were to release an official Vanilla server RIGHT NOW. You cannot recreate the glory days of old Vanilla.

Why?
Not because the game changed.
Because we all as players changed. A LOT.

Retail and the evolution of retail has influenced us all. We are not the same innocent, curious, uneducated noobs we once were. If we were to go into a vanilla server right now, every one of us knew EXACTLY what to expect, what to do and subsequently our whole approach to the game would be completely different.

Agreed, but it is still fun and many people enjoy that version of the game.
There are no legal ways to enjoy that version of the game.
We would like that to change.
Not a hard concept to understand.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I understand now where the actual infringement suit came from. But do you personally think Blizzard should have some accountability in keeping their assets safe from use? If I placed my money in a bank and it was robbed, should the bank have some accountability for being liable, or would the blame fall completely on the theft?

Hypothetical, albeit a bit ridiculous, but I'm curious to know what you would think.

No, I don't think they should have to do that. I could easily get into your house and steal your shit. Why don't you have a guard dog? Or an armed guard?

[Granyala]

Sorry I mean through data encryption or something like that. Obviously a bank won't hold up to two tanks and a 100-person army lol. But it sounds pretty easy to dabble in some coding if you're experienced enough to do it. Nostalrius developers were highly skilled, so I assume it wasn't that difficult for them to do.

There is no data to be encrypted.

In the past vanilla server data has been leaked once.
On top of that, the game is very open (spell coeficients, timer etc).

Combine the two, add computer skillz and there is nothing Blizzard can do to prevent reverse engineering a 10 year old version of their software now.

Doesn't mean it's easy. Last time I checked, most PServers were bug ridden, unstable messes. Not even in the same league as retail.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The guy asked what they did wrong. The legalities are irrelevant.

No, they didn't do anything wrong.

[Mullet Man]

The formula and idea for coke is the same as the code and IP.

Physically breaking and entering really isn't that different here. It'd be similar to copying the code or whatnot.

Coke is not an "idea". Ideas cannot be copyrighted. Only implementations.
Pepsi is not Coke, even though they are both soda pop.

Anyone can make an MMO with the same ideas as WoW. As many have done.
The problem is reusing the IP. Blizzard is required to protect their IP, or lose it.

[Grym]

Sorry I mean through data encryption or something like that. Obviously a bank won't hold up to two tanks and a 100-person army lol. But it sounds pretty easy to dabble in some coding if you're experienced enough to do it. Nostalrius developers were highly skilled, so I assume it wasn't that difficult for them to do.

At the moment no, because technology currently is moving at a pace faster than Law can control.

But maybe sometimes in future the Law would change the "reasonable measure" to include more advanced method of protecting their information.