1. #2321
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    Except all souls are reborn, that is part of the reason why Ishmael turned to the shadow, and the reason why the DR turned back to the light.
    "How do you know?" – Graendal asked, smiling as if it were a joke. "It may well be that, as many believe, all are born and reborn as the Wheel turns, but nothing like this has ever happened that I have read. A specific man reborn according to prophecy. Who knows what he is? [3]" https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon#The_Forsaken
    The Forsaken only think it is a theory that all souls are reborn and have not proven it. They don't know what it means to have a specific person, The Dragon, reborn. The Heroes bound to the horn are specific souls that hang out in the world of dreams until it is their time to be spun back out or someone blows the horn. The books even show a soul being bound to the horn and "brought back" when the horn blows. It doesn't call just any soul but only those bound to the Wheel that get spun out when the pattern wills. Another form of Ta'veren but not exactly the same.

    If you haven't read the books who that soul is would be a spoiler https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Jain_Farstrider?so=search#Additional_info

    The pattern doesn't care about equality. It doesn't strive to bring balance to anything. It does whatever the creator/wheel told it to do. It isn't set in stone so while things are fated to be a certain way changes can still exist. Those mirror worlds can be traveled to and any possible outcome can exist on those places. There is trouble forcing the pattern to change unless you change it the ways it wants. Which is why Ta'veren struggle to go against the pattern themselves. They have a compulsion to live the fate the pattern wants stronger then others.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #2322
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The more I hear if Rafe, the worse he sounds. They have a lore expert, hired because she claims to have read the series 57 times, who is meant to advise on what ripple effects would result in changing the plot.

    Rafe publically said he enjoys sending her fake outs, such as killing off Thom, just to watch her collapse as a human being. His words, not mine. Guy is a sociopath.
    Yup he had so many red flags it's absurd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    This is a rather odd complaint.

    It's pseudo medieval fantasy. And the whole "flithy unwashed grimy" middle ages is really just Victorian fiction perpetuated by Hollywood.

    People in the middle ages very often dressed quite flamboyantly. They cleaned, they washed and they absolutely obsessed with colour to a degree we would find absolutely gaudy. Bright colors, yellow, blue, red, green. Armors were painted, guided, decorated.

    Black wasn't a thing well into the late 16th century.

    People from peasant to King washed and they took as much pride in their appearance and fashion sense as people do today. They were willing to pay insane amounts for cloth and textiles from Persia, India, China.

    Characters like the Aes Sedai sit very high in the social hierarchy. It's normal they have fancy drrsses and their wardens would be give similar treatment.
    In the book at least in eye they are basically running and hiding the entire book changing clothes really doesn't happen much. Jordan spends multiple pages on outfit changes trust me you know when they change clothes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Don't want to be that guy, but just wanted to point out RJ are the initials for both Robert Jordan and Rafe Judkins (showrunner). Makes it a bit confusing to read, even though I know you're talking about Robert Jordan.
    Nah that fucking idiot or the moron can't really be confused with RJ context is also a good clue. Does the thing being talked about sound awesome chances are it came from RJ does it sound moronic and nonsensical changes are it came from the moron.

  3. #2323
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Nah that fucking idiot or the moron can't really be confused with RJ context is also a good clue. Does the thing being talked about sound awesome chances are it came from RJ does it sound moronic and nonsensical changes are it came from the moron.
    Why do you keep calling Robert Jordan a moron? He's a brilliant writer. Just because you think Rafe Judkins makes everything sound awesome doesn't mean Robert Jordan is a moron.

  4. #2324
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Thats proberly the thing i have missed to notice in WoT, because the story spin-offs have taken so much focus. The tone is completly different. It makes a word of a change.
    I basically have to agree with a statement made by someone on another forum, where he kind of summarized it as such:

    The TV series has departed so far from the books (and we are only basically on book one, at that) that it is straight up insulting to call it an "adaptation" of Wheel of Time at this point because other than general setting, some names, and the odd story beat, it's basically nothing like the books in any form. Which means that you can't really judge it as a "Wheel of Time" product. So you have to judge it based on it' own merits: at which point you basically have a slightly above mediocre fantasy series with a metric fuckload of wasted potential.

    It's like you handed one of the biggest properties in fantasy literature to someone and asked them to make the worst possible adaptation of that series.

  5. #2325
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    It's actually worse if you think about it. The show is saying that the only way a woman can succeed is if a man fails.
    it's kinda just a thing modern media does these days. It's actually why I, as a mixed race guy, oppose every character gender or race swap of remakes and adaptations. After awhile I realized that every single time it's a statement that says "we don't think a unique minority, lgbt, or female character will be successful so we forced it on something people already like."

    I don't want to be virtue signaled. I don't want to be told black characters with their own unique backgrounds aren't good enough so we just race swapped a white guy; and then be expected to be happy about it.

    /rant

  6. #2326
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Clothing maybe.
    Hygiene however wasn't high on the to do list however. Bathing and such was seen as a heathen thing. Heck I recall reading that (spoilered because gross af Queen Isabella of Spain boasted that she only bathed twice in her life. Once when born, the other when she got married. For the sake of preventing projectile vomiting, try not to extrapolate far on that.
    Again. That's a myth.

    Bathing =/= washing.

    https://www.worldhistory.org/Medieval_Hygiene/
    https://www.historyextra.com/period/...-plague-covid/

    While bathing was often logistically complicated, especially when traveling or more commonly during the winter months. Still people, even poor peasants bathed, just less frequently. But they still washed their whole body with wash cloths and ewers and washed their hair daily with alkaline solutions and scented oils.

    If you really dig into it, you'll quickly realize that the whole unwashed middles ages is bullshit.

    The one big reason why medieval Europeans kinda looked primitive compared to the Muslims or Byzantines tho was because they kinda abandoned communal bathing and turned it into a necessarily private thing. Bath houses in Europe were often synonymous with brothels so the Church frowned own it, so Europe often didn't have the extensive bathing facilities with pools and massages and hot water etc that the Byzantines and Muslims had. But again, that just didn't mean that people didn't wash or clean themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    In the book at least in eye they are basically running and hiding the entire book changing clothes really doesn't happen much. Jordan spends multiple pages on outfit changes trust me you know when they change clothes.
    Yeah. But I don't recall any outfit changes between them leaving The Two Rivers and reaching Tar Valon in the series either?

  7. #2327
    I've watched the first 3 episodes and so far the show hasn't ruined my childhood, unlike the shannara chronicles. Definitely a low bar but I'll take it.

  8. #2328
    The first 3 episodes are probably where it stays true to the books the most. It goes really off the rails after that.

  9. #2329
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Again. That's a myth.
    If they had the option do you really think it was taken? Consider it took even a minimal effort...and a doctor's recommendation. Sound familiar? Up to even the late 19th century too many never bothered to wash hands. (Typhoid Mary is a famous example). Heck you can't even get people to wash their hands today after using the restroom. Which brings to current day examples...of being cleaner...sure we have examples of "cleanliness" but those aren't the rule when it's optional.

  10. #2330
    Its amusing just how not well it is going. Ratings continue to slip. IMDB is down to 7.3. The audience score on RT is now at 6.9 Metacritic user score is just 5.0. And that is with weighting mechanics propping it up. Expect it to go down further.

    On top of that, it just hasn't had any traction outside the very small circles dedicate to it. With GoT, people who never watched it knew about it and my feed was always filled with memes that came from GoT. WoT is eerily silent. There has been no traction at all, despite the massive publicity blitz it went on.

    And reading all the copium coming out from the echo chambers trying to rationalise it all is amusing. You've got the typical 'its the haters' fault. But it has been spiralling beyond that. You've got those claiming that the end of the EotW book was bad anyway, though in the near 30 years of reading the series I've never come across that before - at most some get confused about whether it was the Creator or not, but that is about it. And even of the end of the book was bad, the fact that the changes they made were worse isn't a good excuse. Then it was COVD and Barney's fault. That doesn't explain the first 6 episodes, and most of the changes in the 8th episode had nothing to do with Barney. And getting into my favourite stuff - most shows have bad first seasons. I've even seen one claim that they don't trust a show with a good first season - they would rather have a bad first season than a good one. Seriously, I can't imagine the type of mental damage you are doing to yourself processing stuff like that.

  11. #2331
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So if the Dark One can never win why is he a threat? Just ignore him right. You would never need a dragon to stop him from breaking free of the prison the creator put him in at the dawn of creation. The story isn't about making life easy peasy for people and removing all hardships.
    The Dark One is a threat—to the lives of the people living in Randland. The Dark One is not a threat to the Pattern—not because he couldn't theoretically break free, but because he never will as long as people have the heart to face him and beat him back, and his very nature assures that this is always so. A Memory of Light says so outright.

    So if it is both then I also can't be wrong. Weird isn't that? You agree with what I am saying while at the same time calling it wrong.
    No, I am telling you that it is more complicated than what you are dumping it down to. You're scratching at the surface without seeing what's beneath. Case in point:

    Ta'Veren are not bound to the wheel. You can be a Ta'Veren without being bound to the wheel like the Heroes of the Horn are. If Ta'veren are reborn souls then that would defeat half of the importance of the Dragon being reborn. He isn't special he is just a Ta'veren. The books tell us that Ta'veren are understood but even the Forsaken don't know what the Dragon being reborn will mean.
    Ta'veren aren't "just" reborn heroes. I'd wager that a ta'veren almost always is a reborn hero... but a reborn hero is not necessarily a ta'veren. A ta'veren is an individual who holds great sway over the current events of the Age, whose actions and fate are central to how that Age unfolds. But not every hero that is reborn need be a ta'veren. This is merely speculation, but I'd expect that in some past lives, Mat and Perrin weren't necessarily ta'veren, and won't necessarily be in future incarnations. Rand, of course, will always be ta'veren, because he is never not the Dragon. For another example of someone who *could* have been ta'veren but wasn't, take Egwene. Egwene is the reincarnation of Latra Posae Decume, the woman who opposed Lews Therin in his plan to strike at the Bore. Was she ta'veren in the Age of Legends? Hard to say, but the fate of the third age rests squarely on her actions. In the third age, Egwene is described as not being ta'veren, but having such great sway on the Pattern that she is essentially the next best thing. As Latra, it was her choice that damned the Third Age. As Egwene, it was her choice that reforged the Tower and ensured that there would be hope in the Fourth Age. So who influences who between the Pattern and her? She has free will, and the Pattern bends around her, but also pushes her back into the confines of what the Pattern views as possible. It is the same with ta'veren, but on a grander scale and with prophesy and fate on the line.

    In the case of Rand in particular, of course, he very much is special, because he isn't just "a" ta'veren, he is THE ta'veren, reborn again every Age to define the fate of that Age. Other ta'veren may come and go, but the Dragon echoes across the Pattern in a way they do not. Artur Hawkwing was ta'veren, and left quite the legacy in his wake, but he did not shape the entire Age.
    Last edited by Arikara; 2021-12-29 at 01:13 PM.

  12. #2332
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Why do you keep calling Robert Jordan a moron? He's a brilliant writer. Just because you think Rafe Judkins makes everything sound awesome doesn't mean Robert Jordan is a moron.
    Damn you sir, damn you to hell shakes fist in anger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Again. That's a myth.

    Bathing =/= washing.

    https://www.worldhistory.org/Medieval_Hygiene/
    https://www.historyextra.com/period/...-plague-covid/

    While bathing was often logistically complicated, especially when traveling or more commonly during the winter months. Still people, even poor peasants bathed, just less frequently. But they still washed their whole body with wash cloths and ewers and washed their hair daily with alkaline solutions and scented oils.

    If you really dig into it, you'll quickly realize that the whole unwashed middles ages is bullshit.

    The one big reason why medieval Europeans kinda looked primitive compared to the Muslims or Byzantines tho was because they kinda abandoned communal bathing and turned it into a necessarily private thing. Bath houses in Europe were often synonymous with brothels so the Church frowned own it, so Europe often didn't have the extensive bathing facilities with pools and massages and hot water etc that the Byzantines and Muslims had. But again, that just didn't mean that people didn't wash or clean themselves.

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    Yeah. But I don't recall any outfit changes between them leaving The Two Rivers and reaching Tar Valon in the series either?
    There weren't outfit changes until the borderlands for a reason. Rand's new outfits were described in very vivid detail in TGH

  13. #2333
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If they had the option do you really think it was taken? Consider it took even a minimal effort...and a doctor's recommendation. Sound familiar? Up to even the late 19th century too many never bothered to wash hands. (Typhoid Mary is a famous example). Heck you can't even get people to wash their hands today after using the restroom. Which brings to current day examples...of being cleaner...sure we have examples of "cleanliness" but those aren't the rule when it's optional.
    Mate I gave you sources .

    People washed themselves and washed their hands.

    The sources clearly describe habits, rules and social norms. This is backed up by the archeological record, the fact that homes had spaces and equipment for it, that there was a significant trade tied to hygienic products etc.

    Saying that "people only bathed when the doctor made them and all the effort, money and space invested into bathing is just for show" is exactly akin to saying nobody bathes today and all the medical treatises about hygiene and all the money and space spent on bathing facilities is just for show because doctors recommend bathing."

    I get it. It's a very deeply rooted and pervasive myth, but it's still a myth. Mostly a Victorian one.

    Like the whole white marble antiquity (they painted everything), and the gladiatorial thumb sign (comes from a painting) and the horned Viking helmets (comes from a Wagnerian opera staging), the "Dark Ages" etc.

    While the Victorians basically invented museums and archeology they have also made up a lot of shit that remains stubbornly pervavise.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-12-29 at 05:48 PM.

  14. #2334
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Saying that "people only bathed when the doctor made them and all the effort, money and space invested into bathing is just for show" is exactly akin to saying nobody bathes today and all the medical treatises about hygiene and all the money and space spent on bathing facilities is just for show because doctors recommend bathing."
    Not to put too fine a point here but do you really think people are different today? Or do really believe that mask mandates and lockdowns were unnecessary? Too many don't care to wash their hands today, the guy slinging rotten fruit and excrement at the hanged man might, just might, rinse his hands off at the nearest horse trough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I get it. It's a very deeply rooted and pervasive myth, but it's still a myth. Mostly a Victorian one.
    And I gave you references.
    The upshot here is we're arguing over the degree.

    Your source mentions using urine to clesn laundry.
    Chamberpots did exist. And emptied out the window...or if in a city, emptied in the guttered street.
    And while public bathing may have been a thing in some places, swapping out the water...really wasn't.
    ...and should I mention the toilet paper? (Bibles...those thin sheets of paper had a convenience beyond reading material.)
    The nonexistent plumbing in a castle had garderobes...basically shitholes that emptied out into a waterway that was sometimes a moat.
    Clean potable water needed boiling. But that piece of knowledge wasn't truly known until late 19th century when bacteria was shown to exist. Taking a hot bath...took work to get a fire going and fill bucket after bucket to fill a tub. And seen as a luxury for most. It certainly wasn't done often.

    Hmf.. On the other side of the pond, natives did make a regular job of keeping clean, and even germ-free to a degree. Too clean. Unfortunately, their bodies never developed the immunities that continental Europeans had against viruses and such.
    Last edited by Shadowferal; 2021-12-29 at 06:21 PM.

  15. #2335
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    The Dark One is a threat—to the lives of the people living in Randland. The Dark One is not a threat to the Pattern—not because he couldn't theoretically break free, but because he never will as long as people have the heart to face him and beat him back, and his very nature assures that this is always so. A Memory of Light says so outright.
    That is not true. The books show the pattern being changed the closer the Dark One gets to breaking free. The dark one can certainly break free and is not bound by the "heart" of the people. If that were the case the the entire events of the book didn't need to happen at all because the power of faith could have kept him sealed instead of a full on assault and "Last Battle".

    It doesn't matter if what I'm saying is considered a basic level by you. You've agreed with what I've said while also calling it wrong. That is a contradiction that you need to resolve yourself regardless if you think my explanation is complicated or simple. There is nothing to indicate that Ta'veren are heroes tied to the wheel and always the same souls reborn over and over. There is only speculation that Egwene is Latra and it is never confirmed. There has also never been confirmation that Lews/Rand/Dragon is always a Ta'veren. The books also indicate that it isn't a permanent thing but only while it is required by the pattern.

    “…You see, the Wheel of Time weaves the Pattern of the Ages, and the threads it uses are lives. It is not fixed, the Pattern, not always. If a man tries to change the direction of his life and the Pattern has room for it, the Wheel just weaves on and takes it in. There is always room for small changes, but sometimes the Pattern simply won’t accept a big change, no matter how hard you try. You understand?”

    Rand nodded. “I could live on the farm or in Emond’s Field, and that would be a small change. If I wanted to be a king, though…” He laughed, and Loial gave a grin that almost split his face in two. His teeth were white, and as broad as chisels.

    “Yes, that’s it. But sometimes the change chooses you, or the Wheel chooses it for you. And sometimes the Wheel bends a life-thread, or several threads, in such a way that all the surrounding threads are forced to swirl around it, and those force other threads, and those still others, and on and on. That first bending to make the Web, that is ta’veren, and there is nothing you can do to change it, not until the Pattern itself changes. The Web—ta’maral’ailen, it’s called—can last for weeks, or for years. It can take in a town, or even the whole Pattern. Artur Hawkwing was ta’veren. So was Lews Therin Kinslayer, for that matter, I suppose.”

    https://www.tor.com/2019/08/06/readi...to-be-taveren/
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #2336
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is not true. The books show the pattern being changed the closer the Dark One gets to breaking free. The dark one can certainly break free and is not bound by the "heart" of the people. If that were the case the the entire events of the book didn't need to happen at all because the power of faith could have kept him sealed instead of a full on assault and "Last Battle".
    You are missing the point here.

    It's not that the Dark One can't play the game. He absolutely can, and nothing prevents him from messing with the Pattern when he can exert his influence. Absolutely nothing inherently prevents him from breaking free of his prison and fucking up the pattern, turning the Wheel's beautiful designer shirt into a fuckugly Christmas sweater for several turnings. It's that he can't WIN, where Winning is defined as "Breaking Reality, taking Permanent Control of the Wheel and Effectively Replacing The Creator", because that's not actually possible. IE: There is no actual Final Victory for the Dark. It can't happen.

    The Last Battle still needs to be fought in every turning. The conflict between light and dark still needs to happen. Light can't "win" by not playing and simply willing the Dark One contained by thinking happy thoughts or some such stupidity, because that's not how the game works. If the Light doesn't at least try to actively fight the Dark, the Dark can still get loose and exert it's influence on the pattern, turning life for everyone into a living hell until it is beaten back again, but the Dark can never do MORE than that. It can't destroy the pattern, or take control of the Wheel. It can only distort the pattern, never break it.

    Effectively the closest the Dark One could come to "winning" is if the forces of Light basically stop resisting for eternity, and allow it to have free reign to corrupt the pattern forever. Which would basically never happen, as someone, somewhere will always fight back.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2021-12-29 at 09:27 PM.

  17. #2337
    I don't care about the book fidelity debate, but from a production pov I'm disappointed in this show. It's similar but significantly worse than Netflix's Shadow and Bone, which was barely watchable. The sets look fake, the costumes look fake, the lighting is atrocious, the screenplay is soapy. If ABC's Once Upon a Time was given a bigger budget, this is exactly how they would waste it.

    Done in poor taste.

  18. #2338
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    You are missing the point here.
    The Dark One can win. Breaking free of his prison is winning because he would no longer be contained and would have free reign to do whatever he wants. The creator imprisoned him at the moment of creation and did it outside of the pattern. If the Dark One can never win and can never do more then the pattern allows it devalues the entire struggle and story.

    Because there is no point to any of it. The Dark One can never do more then fate, the pattern, decides for that cycle. And the "creator" forces don't have to do anything because the Dark One is never at risk of being free from his prison. Fortunately your assertion isn't back up by anything in the books.

    Rothaar

    When Rand takes Verin and the others through a Portal Stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the Wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

    Robert Jordan

    There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight The Dark One. It's never simple.
    Question 21 at https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=94

    You, and the other poster, seem to be confused about and missing the distinction between a victory and "the victory". The Dark One can win with out breaking free from his prison. It has happened before. If the Dark One does break free from his prison then that is the end of the pattern and cycle as we know it because he would destroy and remake things.

    "Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past. This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once—you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it. In the past, when the Champion of the Light has gone over to the Shadow, the result has been a draw."
    The above is apparently a quote from Robert Jordan at a book signing event. I can't found a better source then a random reddit thread google found when searching on the topic. But it does reinforce the earlier statements from RJ about the subject. The times where the shadow won were a draw rather then a true victory. The light has to win, or draw, every time. The Dark One has to win once (this also matches with the philosophy of Ishamael in the boks) but can still get a minor victory by achieving a draw.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-12-30 at 12:28 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #2339
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    It's actually worse if you think about it. The show is saying that the only way a woman can succeed is if a man fails.
    Hate has never been rational, and still doesn't make sense.

    Most of these male hating ultra feminist groups (down with the patriarchy, and men are the scum of the earth) are funny because in every area, tehy basically emulate men and want to be just like the. They are basically women playing men. It is so male centric.

    Their views on life are male based - value aggression, dominance, strength - they've likely grown up with boys, wanting what boys want and what boys think are cool, and will never do boys as good as boys, but totally resent that and hate that. So they rage and rail.

    While it is part of life that some women think this way, when you change a world to define that as the reality and truth, it becomes woefully lopsided and nonsenisical, and for those aware of current social trends and social communism, well, we know it's a culture war with ideolgoies and agendas being preached an promoted al round through media.


    The irony iis the messaging of the man-hate filled ultra feminist groups is basically saying, what men are is the best and we want it, but the only way we can succeeed is if the men are rubbish and fail. Yet, in life that is the harsh reality, for roles that mean typically do well in or dominate, women tend to only get to the top when men around them fail.. because for those situations and roles, men are celarly better suited.. but equity says, it doesn't matter if you do the job better, and you are obviously better at it, you must have equal represtntation, even when it makes no sense.. but this isn't equality, it's equity.


    But then they never wanted equality, what they wanted was to swap places.. because they are so man focused, they think it's amazing and worth grabbing for.. it's the weirdest most psychologicall broken from of flattery. Love and hate. And no, they aren't all lesbians.


    The problem with this show, is how the messaging of the originaal story is changed to this. it would be a different case if this was a new IP that was actually based on that ideology, then I would choose to watch it for what it was, knowing that this is about women being great and men being shit. .but the thing is the whell of Time isn't as a series.. so they are taking all these great stories and books not wiritten by them, that tell a different story, different ideals and messaging and changing them, re-write.. and they expect it to be popular.


    I mean seriously, hohw do you expect something that so blatantly spits on one gender, (before we get into the issues and problems of the show), and expect itt o appeal to the world? I bet you most guys who watch this think it's femme show and aren't actually that excited about it.. sure if they're fantasy buffs it's another fantasy show with magic and they'll watch it and go okay, i follow.. but they aren't going to inspire the greate rmajority with that messaging, that type of adaptation and that level of quality.

  20. #2340
    The defilement of the corpse continues. Rafe has said it is important to continue the Egwene/Perrin pairing in season 2.

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