[TV] The Wheel of Time

[jdbond]

Completely agree. We can criticize the quality of the show and break down how it just doesn't really meet any book reader's expectations, and is full of flaws that even a casual audience goer would have plenty of questions or eye rolling. But that should never be confused with the show actually doing poorly if there is no evidence to reach that conclusion, especially if metrics are indicating the opposite.

You are arguing over semantics. GoT was a success. WoT is a "success". Are they the same success? When you change the bar for what passes for a success, many things are possible.

There are great success and there are mediocre successes. Even Warcraft film somehow managed to make enough money for Legendary to recoup almost all of what they spent. So there, WoT is a 'success'. It may remain "successful" for a season or two more. I don't believe it can grow, though. That is true success.

[Triceron]

You are arguing over semantics.

Then isn't the whole point of saying whether the show is a success or failure just semantics? We should just say the show is what it is.

Which is pretty much my point. I didn't say the show was a success, I was merely pointing out that it wasn't a failure as people were saying it was. That you point out that it isn't a success either doesn't change my point that the show is not exactly a failure, just as it is not exactly a success either.

[jdbond]

Then isn't the whole point of saying whether the show is a success or failure just semantics? We should just say the show is what it is.

I did. It is a mediocre show. It is full of inconsistencies. Poor acting, poor character development....

It is also a "success" for Prime. Cheers.

[Triceron]

While this is absolutely true, it's also very tricky to actually GET reliable metrics. Not all the data is accessible, and what data is, isn't always a direct indicator of what's actually going on financially. Plus there's data that you definitely shouldn't simply trust:

Regardless of what metrics are fully available, there will be certain biases in the way that people will simply believe or not believe. I mean this is why anti-vaxxers exist even though we have all the scientific evidence to show that they are effective. It's generally all down to belief more than any lack of data, especially i the context of discussing 'success' and 'failure'. There is no real data metric to show either, and it will ultimately be disregarded by those who already decided what they think it is.

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I did. It is a mediocre show. It is full of inconsistencies. Poor acting, poor character development....

It is also a "success" for Prime. Cheers.

Yes, which is my point? Not quite sure why you're repeating it to me since that's exactly how I see it as well, with full quotations. Thank you for sharing I guess.

[jdbond]

Yes, which is my point? Not quite sure why you're repeating it to me since that's exactly how I see it as well, with full quotations. Thank you for sharing I guess.

But you are missing their point. They didn't want it to be a mediocrity. They didn't want it be "good enough" for prime. Hence, for them, it is a failure. They didn't think "success" of this would be measured from perspective of prime. I guess they were stupid.

[Xath]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comment...ally_doing_an/

WoT looks like it has maybe 15 million active global viewers (plus or minus 5 million), with over half of them are likely to not be in the US. Viewer engagement is very high (from Parrot Analytics) and retention is very high (via Amazon statement). It has steadily been the second most pirated show of the past few weeks behind Hawkeye.

tl;dr: Number of active weekly viewers is probably around 15-20 million, but higher is possible. Amazon is almost certainly giving us a season 3 renewal when season 2 finishes filming.


I think those numbers are greater than 6 million, and you're not accounting for global viewership and casual TV goers who have access to Amazon has far more reach than you're giving it credit for.

There are plenty of things we can criticize Wheel of Time for. Viewership isn't really one of them right now, when the metrics are absolutely in favour of this doing fairly well.


Again, want to point out that just because there is a very vocal minority of people with much criticism over the series, the casual viewerbase more than makes up for any perceived 'failure' of the show not doing well. As generic fantasy as this show is, it's popular and viewed regardless of how well adapted the content is.

In no fucking world do they have 15 million rofl. Also literally never heard of parrot analytics and their monthly visits appear to be around 50k so yeah they aren't worth jack in terms of accuracy. Imagine trying to claim someone who is estimating a plus or minus 5 million margin out of 20 total has any accuracy.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/parrot-a

[bledgor]

I also have a HARD time with the 15 million when I am hearing no talk about the show really, I know plenty of people who watched witcher season 2, expanse new season and even talk about getting paramount or HBO or whatever for the Harry Potter thing tomorrow, but almost nothing about the WoT.

For a series with such a large fanbase (larger than Asoiaf before the show) this could have easily been a huge franchise, and at best I think they got a decent fantasy series, which in my eyes is a huge failure.

[TirielWoW]

I finished the series and I enjoyed it. I look forward to Season 2.

[Xath]

So are you only dismissing every metric that says the show is doing well because you don't like the show? Or do you not believe any metric about any shows success? Because everything points to it being successful and having higher viewership despite your disdain.

You know except user reviews and falling critical reviews and your Nielsen numbers you linked that had it tied with Yellowstone and certainly not having a 15 mil plus audience.

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I finished the series and I enjoyed it. I look forward to Season 2.

Just trying to understand why would you enjoy a badly lit mess of pacing with terrible costuming not even going into plot just objectively the lighting and pacing are terrible and the costuming is very Ren Faire esque. Once you go into plot issues it's basically a later season cw show complete with nonsense love triangle that didn't exist in the original work.

[Surfd]

I also have a HARD time with the 15 million when I am hearing no talk about the show really, I know plenty of people who watched witcher season 2, expanse new season and even talk about getting paramount or HBO or whatever for the Harry Potter thing tomorrow, but almost nothing about the WoT.

Yep. If you want a fairly representative sample size, my work crew has a fair bit of TV watchers with a pretty diverse taste range. GoT? Lots of chatter with the office team, most of them followed it for multiple seasons. Westworld? Several people watched at least the entire first season. Expanse. Talk and interest. The Boys. Talk and interest. Witcher. Same. Harry Potter? All over it. Practically every Marvel related Streaming Series? Lots of interest and such.

Wheel though? I am literally the only person who seems to know the show exists, nobody else is even mentioning it. Considering this is a show that should appeal to a pretty good chunk of the guys I work with, the complete lack of interest is pretty telling.

[TirielWoW]

Just trying to understand why would you enjoy a badly lit mess of pacing with terrible costuming not even going into plot just objectively the lighting and pacing are terrible and the costuming is very Ren Faire esque. Once you go into plot issues it's basically a later season cw show complete with nonsense love triangle that didn't exist in the original work.

Because I'm able to enjoy things that aren't Oscar-worthy?

[rhorle]

You know except user reviews and falling critical reviews and your Nielsen numbers you linked that had it tied with Yellowstone and certainly not having a 15 mil plus audience.

It being tied with Yellowstone makes it a failure? Are you claiming Yellowstone is a failure as well? You keep trying to compare it to others in order to say the show isn't a success. When others do not matter. It isn't a competitor to Yellowstone. There is more to success and failure then being the best. You've also stated that a rating of 8 doesn't mean a show is good and that it is a failure.

You keep calling it a failure simply because you dislike it. It being a failure for what you envisioned a Wheel of Time show would be like doesn't make the show an actual failure. It is a successful show. You can live in denial or you can come to terms that it is possible for things you don't like to succeed. The choice is ultimately yours.

[mojusk]

holy shit.
i watched 5 mins of first episode.
ive never seen this much feminazi propaganda condensed into such a short time.
does it keep on like this?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Just trying to understand why would you enjoy a badly lit mess of pacing with terrible costuming not even going into plot just objectively the lighting and pacing are terrible and the costuming is very Ren Faire esque. Once you go into plot issues it's basically a later season cw show complete with nonsense love triangle that didn't exist in the original work.

What parts would you say have bad lighting pretty much all of it seemed fine to me baring Mabye the first episode with the attack on the town.

As to the costuming id say a lot of it is super well done the white tower stood out as having a ton of great designs for the aes sedai.



The only customs that stood out as disappointments for me atlest was the white clocks and Seanchan and in both cases it’s a n issue with design not with quality.

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holy shit.
i watched 5 mins of first episode.
ive never seen this much feminazi propaganda condensed into such a short time.
does it keep on like this?

If you see the opening as “feminazi propaganda” the. Wheel of time isn’t the series for you book or show.

[mojusk]

If you see the opening as “feminazi propaganda” the. Wheel of time isn’t the series for you book or show.

aight, wont watch it then.

[bledgor]

What parts would you say have bad lighting pretty much all of it seemed fine to me baring Mabye the first episode with the attack on the town.

The last episode had some fuck awful lighting and what the fuck were those PS2/3 Trollocs.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The last episode had some fuck awful lighting and what the fuck were those PS2/3 Trollocs.

There were some dark scenes due to it being night but I wouldn’t say any of them were hard to make out at any point though.

The trollocs though ya they ain’t looking great, through I’d say the weaving effects has gotten better if still not amazing.

[bledgor]

There were some dark scenes due to it being night but I wouldn’t say any of them were hard to make out at any point though.

The trollocs though ya they ain’t looking great, through I’d say the weaving effects has gotten better if still not amazing.

Its the same shitty lighting that GoT used for the final battle to save money and I fucking hate it. Budget better, or go lower scale or figure out a better/still cheap way but the night time/low light battles is so ass (at least to me).

Also if you are going to ass pull res dead weaving, make it at least look dramatic instead of this barely there shit, resurrection (yes I know they are bullshitting that she wasn't "technically" dead, but her eyes were burnt out and body wasted) is a big deal, show that shit if you want to go full idiotic power levels in book/season 1 and own your idiocy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Also if you are going to ass pull res dead weaving, make it at least look dramatic instead of this barely there shit, resurrection (yes I know they are bullshitting that she wasn't "technically" dead, but her eyes were burnt out and body wasted) is a big deal, show that shit if you want to go full idiotic power levels in book/season 1 and own your idiocy.

This I can agree with, the resing/healing felt really underwhelming I was expected effects that never came.

For the most part I’d say they need to put
A lot more money into the weaves given how crucial they are, some parts look kinda good like them stilling logain and the dark wing esc bits coming out of him but even then I really wanted them to cut to a wider shot to really play up the huge amount of power and darkness he’d have compared to the sisters but they never did they just had the close up and with how the scene played out it felt like they did it for budget reasons.

[MCMLXXXII]

Just trying to understand why would you enjoy a badly lit mess of pacing with terrible costuming not even going into plot just objectively the lighting and pacing are terrible and the costuming is very Ren Faire esque. Once you go into plot issues it's basically a later season cw show complete with nonsense love triangle that didn't exist in the original work.

It's almost like different people like different things. That's weird, isn't it? We know you don't like it. You mention that in every single post in this thread. Apparently Heather likes it.
Personally, it kinda entertained me. Certainly it isn't the best show ever but it's not as bad as the CW shows. Mind you, I haven't read the books. Never heard of the bookseries before this show, I guess it isn't a thing over here.
I will be watching season 2 but if they would cancel it I wouldn't miss it.