[TV] The Wheel of Time

[rhorle]

The writing of the first book is painfully dry and wooden and the exposition feels painfully unnatural and out of place every where but Lan’s back story, it feels like a first time DM front loading there first session thinking people will leave other wise.

A lot of great works are not always written well. I've seen the same said about Dune. A great story that is well regarded for the story part but often cited as an example of how not to write by people teaching others to write. As people become more experienced in what is and is not considered good for writing they notice the flaws. Or if that "new car" effect wears off they might notice them as well.

Terry Pratchet references that a little bit in a quote about Tolkien.

"I read Tolkien now and notice the gaps, the evasions, all the 'bad' things... but few books have had the effect on me that TLOTR had when I was thirteen. Is he better or worse, for example, than Anita Brookner, widely regarded as a 'fine writer' although terribly dull to read? What is a writer supposed to achieve? "

[Lorgar Aurelian]

A lot of great works are not always written well.I've seen the same said about Dune. A great story that is well regarded for the story part but often cited as an example of how not to write by people teaching others to write. As people become more experienced it what is and is not considered good for writing they notice the flaws. Or if that "new car" effect wears off they might notice them as well.

Terry Pratchet references that a little bit in a quote about Tolkien.

"I read Tolkien now and notice the gaps, the evasions, all the 'bad' things... but few books have had the effect on me that TLOTR had when I was thirteen. Is he better or worse, for example, than Anita Brookner, widely regarded as a 'fine writer' although terribly dull to read? What is a writer supposed to achieve? "

I can’t say I disagree, for all the first books writing is rather painful I did still enjoy the story and hopefully that will keep up atleast until the later books which I remember falling off.

Wot was also the first book series I went through for ever ago and I can’t say I remember any of the flaws in its styling back then but after going through 200 or so books since then it stands out.

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that is a glorious poster i will admit. Also that movie is under rated. while very flawed, it has some damn cool moments and animation I like :P

I know it’s not the best LoTR movie by any quality standards but I’d be damned if it wasn’t my favourite by a mile.

[Redwyrm]

SNIP

wow Rand got shafted to top right. Not that I would complain if Gandalf ever got put front and centre over Frodo or Aragorn :P

Unfortunately this reflects the focus of the TV series versus the focus of the books. In the books Rand is our central viewpoint character (until the party splits of course). Moiraine is the mysterious stranger we don't know if we can trust.

If you read the Shannara books (forget the tv series), it's the same way. The focus is on Shea Ohmsford (and his subsequent lineage). Not Allanon. And it should never be Allanon.

[Rennadrel]

Season 2 is going to flop so hard. People watched season 1 out of curiosity, with most viewers failing to finish it because it was so bad, and WoT fans generally being annoyed with how much they butchered the story. Frankly you'd need 16-20 episodes at an hour each in order to properly tell the story, and we know that isn't happening. Thankfully production on this abortion of a show has ceased thanks to the strike. I won't at all be surprised if it gets cancelled.

[rhorle]

I won't at all be surprised if it gets cancelled.

It has already been renewed for Season 3 and began filming in April 2023. It might not get a season 4 but it would be rare to not get Season 3. Though the writer and now actor strike is likely impacting the show.

Do you have evidence to back up that most people failed to finish? Or rather that it was outside of industry norms? Remember even a highly praised show like Arcane only saw a 60% completion rate according to leaked information.

[Xath]

wow Rand got shafted to top right. Not that I would complain if Gandalf ever got put front and centre over Frodo or Aragorn :P

Wow that looks awful that composition is just painful also looks out of focus

[Mace]

So I bit the bullet and restarted the novels while I wait for other books to come out, and man do they stand up less then I remembered.

The writing of the first book is painfully dry and wooden and the exposition feels painfully unnatural and out of place every where but Lan’s back story, it feels like a first time DM front loading there first session thinking people will leave other wise.

On the shows front I can see why they would want to make some of the changes they did but the execution is still super sloppy and while a fair chunk of the book should have been cut they went way to far and the show just flat out needed more episodes.

I had the opposite experience. I was amazed at how incredibly well written the story was. And how engaging the plot is.

It reminded me that this book has inspired and being used as a blueprint for many stories that followed, but it still holds up.
Perhaps even a lot more so because of all the trash.

[Rennadrel]

My last read-through I got half way through Fires of Heaven and had to stop, because that's when the story starts to drag.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I had the opposite experience. I was amazed at how incredibly well written the story was. And how engaging the plot is.

It reminded me that this book has inspired and being used as a blueprint for many stories that followed, but it still holds up.
Perhaps even a lot more so because of all the trash.

The story it self isn’t the issue the story is good (Mabye a bit bloated), it’s how the book itself is actually written with the whole thing being rather stiff outside of a few standout moments.

The story only starts to drag down near the mid point is I remember correctly.

[Mazza]

I am unsure as to why anybody would submit themselves to a second season of this, especially after the awful finale of season 1.

[hulkgor]

I am unsure as to why anybody would submit themselves to a second season of this, especially after the awful finale of season 1.

So edgy.

That said, i'm pretty confident you'll eventually watch it, so, you know, you can bash it a bit more.

[Mazza]

So edgy.

That said, i'm pretty confident you'll eventually watch it, so, you know, you can bash it a bit more.

Ok. So you liked the season 1 finale? I know that they partly had the excuse that they were filming it during covid, but even then it is all over the place.

[rhorle]

I am unsure as to why anybody would submit themselves to a second season of this, especially after the awful finale of season 1.

Shouldn't that be something you can answer? You are here discussing it even though it is an awful show. People don't have to like everything but there is so much more that they could be doing than hate watching/discussing.

[Shadowferal]

Don't need to watch anymore. If it smells like poo, looks like poo, then it's poo. Some apparently need a spoon for that last test.

[rhorle]

Don't need to watch anymore. If it smells like poo, looks like poo, then it's poo. Some apparently need a spoon for that last test.

Isn't that why you, and others, who don't like it continually surround yourself with discussions and news on it? The spoon you need.

[hulkgor]

Ok. So you liked the season 1 finale? I know that they partly had the excuse that they were filming it during covid, but even then it is all over the place.

The finale wasn't great, but i'm still eagerly waiting for s2, s3 and hopefully more down the line.

[Biomega]

The finale wasn't great, but i'm still eagerly waiting for s2, s3 and hopefully more down the line.

Yes, they served poop in s1. But that doesn't mean it'll be poop in s2 as well. And just because they've pulled down their pants and are squatting over our plate with a pinched face doesn't mean it's guaranteed poop is coming out.

...or something? I mean you do you, and watch what you're going to watch, but it seems a little weird to see so many people REALLY hoping for chocolate ice cream this time.

[Witchblade77]

Finale was bad. desperate scrambling to rewrite Matt's actor leaving half way through the show - didn't work. BUT precisely because I know why finale was bad and it was due to circumstances out of their control? that I'm willing to give this show more of a chance. I liked the casting other then Morraine. I wasn't 100% on board with some of the changes, but it IS an adaptation and interpretation (and I wasn't necessarily on board with multiple changes to Expanse adaptation either, and I still think Holden was miscast, but I still enjoyed the show overall and while it cost us a few book characters, show Camina Drummer more then made up for it, IMO), so I still want to see where they are going with it in Wheel of Time.

there is this thing called nuance. Something doesn't need to be perfect to be enjoyable.

[Mace]

Wow that looks awful that composition is just painful also looks out of focus

Gosh it looks awful. But hey wheel of time tv show is about messaging not about the story.

The show has significantly altered the books and only loosely complies to give us different and vastly inferior story.

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The story it self isn’t the issue the story is good (Mabye a bit bloated), it’s how the book itself is actually written with the whole thing being rather stiff outside of a few standout moments.

The story only starts to drag down near the mid point is I remember correctly.

The story is perfect. I love when a good story is long. Feels like it could never end but ends quite well.

My recent read through was actually a listen through and was more enjoyable than the first time I completed the series.

What you call bloat, I call detail. I live character depth and world detail I feel is very important in fantasy because of all the strangeness the world has to be as real and detailed as possible.

Love the magic system. It’s the best in all fantasy. So is characterisation and the lines. Mmmm.

The plot is so engaging. There is a hook at nearly every chapter and despite the length, something always happens to move the story a long.

Love how he played mystery so well. He knows how to tease you along. Keep you thoroughly engaged , guessing, but also wracking your brain for all the clues and hints. It’s like a fantasy rolled into mystery rolled into adventure rolled into messiah story with an epic over fill that doesn’t fall short in other areas

[Mazza]

Shouldn't that be something you can answer? You are here discussing it even though it is an awful show. People don't have to like everything but there is so much more that they could be doing than hate watching/discussing.

But I did not hatewatch it. Hell, I did not even think the first episodes were THAT bad, despite some changes that made me go "Uh, ok, but why?" Then I felt it took a real nose dive, but I held hopes for them sticking the landing. Sadly, saying they did not is putting it mildly.

I am very dissapointed with how the first season turned out.