[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Rennadrel]

I hadn't heard about this series before the Amazon show. The first season was a little wonky for me, some things super unbelievable like people fighting skilled soldiers when they have no right to be, etc. Wasn't a huge fan of the casting, most of the main friends seemed off to me. The overall first season ended up being good enough for me to want a second season.

Finished the second season last night, it was a much better watch and the cast grew on me a little bit. I will be waiting for the next season to watch as well and will recommend others watch it. I didn't notice anything that was super "woke" in this show from a normal standpoint, nothing was too in my face that I thought it couldn't have developed naturally in the world it exists in.

Again, I have never heard about the series or read the books before the show but am now infinitely more likely to pick up the books and start reading them, because of the show. For any movie or TV show to do right by a book series requires things that just don't exist or won't translate well to viewers and is just the way it will be. I'm glad the show exists.

lol I can smell bullshit from a mile away. Also 10+ year old account with 21 posts is not at all suspicious

[Lorgar Aurelian]

After season 1 I just stopped watching. I mostly check this thread out of habit and the minuscule chance a bunch of people say "Woah, they actually fixed this shit in season 2, go watch it!" but there's no real indication that is the case.

Keep in mind alot of the vocal folks in the thread also haven’t watched season 2.

In general I think most people agree season 2 is an improvement compared to 1 if great by book standards.

[Destruktion]

Haven't read the books but I came into the show because friends are big fans of the book series. They had a lot of complaints about season 1, but I enjoyed it; it hooked me pretty well. Season 2 wrapped up well, but I don't feel as hooked as I did at the end of Season 1. One book friend seems well-satisfied with season 2 and the apparent setups the showrunners made for future plot threads. Problem is, not having read the books, I can't really see where they're going as well as I could at end of season 1, which is why I'm not as hooked. Guess I'll just have to trust.

[Mazza]

Keep in mind alot of the vocal folks in the thread also haven’t watched season 2.

In general I think most people agree season 2 is an improvement compared to 1 if great by book standards.

Some improvement wouldn't have been hard considering the mess the first season ended up being, but what I mean is a ... season 3 of Picard reaction. Where a fuckton of people that lamented season 1 and especially season 2 went: "Ok, they got it right now!"

I am just not seeing that here, so I will not be giving this show my time if I don't run out of other stuff to watch.

[rhorle]

I am just not seeing that here, so I will not be giving this show my time if I don't run out of other stuff to watch.

The second season has better ratings then the first one. On IMDB it is mostly 8's. On rotten tomatoes it is Is 85% critic and 82% audience. It seems silly to use just this thread as a viewing guide when it has a bunch of people that go out of their way to be critical of the show including two years after some of them last watched it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Some improvement wouldn't have been hard considering the mess the first season ended up being, but what I mean is a ... season 3 of Picard reaction. Where a fuckton of people that lamented season 1 and especially season 2 went: "Ok, they got it right now!"

I am just not seeing that here, so I will not be giving this show my time if I don't run out of other stuff to watch.

Well the problem is the people still complaining about the show are mostly people who haven’t watched the new season so even if they did “get it right” they wouldn’t know because there still trailing off of season 1 complaints and applying them to season 2.

[Xath]

Can't blame them though, this show has so much of the stuff they hate - diversity and powerful women

The books had more diversity non paper thin characters and powerful characters in general whereas Rand had basically been neutered in rafe of time

- - - Updated - - -

Except I'm not trolling. I've read the first two books and I think the finale was great, especially the horn part. It was a fun scene that gets you psyched up. You're welcome to feel however you feel but I and others enjoy the show.

You are trolling nobody who had read the books would be in favor of the horn being recovered off screen which was a huge Rand moment in the books

[Mbcivic]

lol I can smell bullshit from a mile away. Also 10+ year old account with 21 posts is not at all suspicious

Your smell is off 100%. Everything I said is true to me. I never knew about this IP but am glad I do now. I've played WoW for a long time, I just don't need to make 14,092 posts about it. Get your smeller fixed.

[Xath]

And yet some of the same types of complaints for Wheel of Time exist for House of the Dragon. What is actually happening is you are less concerned with things because you care less about the IP and there isn't something to directly compare it to since it isn't directly adapting a book.

Why must you always lie? The vast majority of complaints in this thread are about the massive departures from the books. There are no House of the Dragon books it's a spinoff based on fire and blood which is basically a fictional history boom. Given how it is written it's extremely broad strokes with lots of room for interpretation unlike wheel of time

[rhorle]

Why must you always lie? The vast majority of complaints in this thread are about the massive departures from the books. There are no House of the Dragon books it's a spinoff based on fire and blood which is basically a fictional history boom. Given how it is written it's extremely broad strokes with lots of room for interpretation unlike wheel of time

It isn't a lie. It didn't say the same complaint only the same types of complaints. Problem with plot, characters, actors, story, visuals etc. House of the Dragon has replaced actors, had time jumps, dark episodes that were way to dark on a lot of TVs, etc. It is certainly a better show but that doesn't mean it has no flaws. It also suffers from being a prequel to an established adaptation (and not just books) so it doesn't have an extremely broad canvas to paint. Characters, events, etc all have to end up where they were to allow Game of Thrones to exist.

There are similar complaints about things with Wheel of Time. Some are valid and some are not. The Wheel of Time series not being a 1:1 "faithful" adaptation leaves for broad strokes and room for interpretation. Yet you, and others, won't allow for that at all. Brandon Sanderson has said to think of it as a different turning of the wheel. You and others have tried to tear that down as well. Surprised you haven't accused me of not reading the books or got angry that wiki's, interviews, and facts were used to counter your BS.

Rotten tomatoes has an audience score of 82% for Season 2 of Wheel of Time and Hosue of the Dragon. So it seems the target audiences have similar outlooks for how "good" each show is. The difference for you though is you like one while you don't like the other.

[Dancaris]

Yet you, and others, won't allow for that at all. Brandon Sanderson has said to think of it as a different turning of the wheel. You and others have tried to tear that down as well. Surprised you haven't accused me of not reading the books or got angry that wiki's, interviews, and facts were used to counter your BS.

And yet you cant say that it hold "feel of WoT" in that porn parody.
Where is savior of th world Dragon? Where is his trials? Where is his character? Nope, all about some Aes Sedai, he is just some prick at background. And you can't deny that.

[rhorle]

And yet you cant say that it hold "feel of WoT" in that porn parody.

If you think Wheel of Time is a porn parody then you need to turn of safe search and see what actually would be one. There was no "Dragon, Savior of the world" in the first two books. There was just the village boy told his is a Savior and finding his way until he grows into that role. That isn't all going to happen in 2 out of 16 books or two seasons of a series.

According to Mr. Sanderson Rand didn't really accept being the savior until book 3. https://www.tor.com/2012/02/29/wheel...dragon-reborn/

The Aes Sedai do play a major role in the books and guiding Rand. It is okay for an adaptation to not follow the same exact viewpoints of the source material. It isn't a faithful adaptation and it doesn't need to be. I haven't denied that it isn't faithful. Can you get over that it isn't? Because it sounds like you are can't just like many others in this thread.

[Dancaris]

If you think Wheel of Time is a porn parody then you need to turn of safe search and see what actually would be one. There was no "Dragon, Savior of the world" in the first two books. There was just the village boy told his is a Savior and finding his way until he grows into that role. That isn't all going to happen in 2 out of 16 books or two seasons of a series.

Like, what? No "Dragon, Savior of the world"? You didn't read it carefully? All first 3 books is about boi that wish not to be savior, but do so regardless. And where is this in this "adaptation"? He just wander around, do some shit and look how powerful women save the world.
Where at least something heroic about him? Fucking Lanfear? Or Egwene?

According to Mr. Sanderson Rand didn't really accept being the savior until book 3. https://www.tor.com/2012/02/29/wheel...dragon-reborn/

Brandor Sanderson wrote last 3 books, not first. He can't be sourse of some proof in first 9 books. Headcanon is fine, but main source is book. And book says that he didn't believe he is Dragon, but act like one regardless.

The Aes Sedai do play a major role in the books and guiding Rand. It is okay for an adaptation to not follow the same exact viewpoints of the source material. It isn't a faithful adaptation and it doesn't need to be. I haven't denied that it isn't faithful. Can you get over that it isn't? Because it sounds like you are can't just like many others in this thread.

>guiding
Really? Guiding him to their goals yes, but to be Dragon - nope. And you really say that cutting Rand role to replace it with ALLMIGHTY AES SEDAI, when series IS about HIM and not THEM, about Matt, and Perrin. Remember them? About Egwene and Nynaeve at their path to adulthood.
Moraine was taken away and book lost nothing. If we put her away in this "show" what happen? I highly doubt that she will end like that, more I think that Rand is the one who will be taken. Why not, its not like series is about him.

[rhorle]

Brandor Sanderson wrote last 3 books, not first. He can't be sourse of some proof in first 9 books. Headcanon is fine, but main source is book. And book says that he didn't believe he is Dragon, but act like one regardless.

It gives him greater insight into things then others. Mr. Sanderson has, or had, access to all the notes and other files that Robert Jordan made for his fictional world. He isn't wrong about book 3 either. Rand wasn't the Savior from the get go. This isn't to say he wasn't always fated to be the Dragon Reborn, but that he had a journey to go from a country bumpkin to Savior. That journey unfolds through out the series.

Really? Guiding him to their goals yes, but to be Dragon - nope.

He had Aes Sedai advising him in some capacity for most of his journey. To say he had no help from them is just silly. Rand is the main character but the book series is about more than just him. It book 10 Rand is only in two chapters and the epilogue. Book 3 also focuses more on other characters than on Rand. Robert Jordan varied what characters had the focus and didn't restrict himself to always focusing on Rand.

Moiraine was changed to be a central figure for the entire show. She is the highest profile actor on the show. I'm not sure why you are complaining about that when the second season just finished. This was something that was known at least almost two years ago when Season 1 premiered. This isn't a faithful adaptation, as you clearly show you can't accept, so it not being faithful to the books isn't an issue.

[Mazza]

Well the problem is the people still complaining about the show are mostly people who haven’t watched the new season so even if they did “get it right” they wouldn’t know because there still trailing off of season 1 complaints and applying them to season 2.

I do think there's some ppl complaining here that are actually watching it, but regardless: I haven't seen a wave of "They got it right now!" either, which is my point.

[Nymrohd]

Can't blame them though, this show has so much of the stuff they hate - diversity and powerful women

The significant majority of people in a position of power in the books are women. The books have a massive array of races and cultures, from the multicultural and multiracial Seanchan to the Sea Folk who are depicted as dark black and the Sharrans who are mostly shown as SE Asian. The only predominantly white people are in the Midlands and the books continuously shows the many surrounding cultures to be more successful than the midlands (who are plagued by palace politics); one of the foundation events of the world's recent history is the Aiel War where the Aiel pretty much invade the midlands to kill one of their kings with no difficulty and just return home and don't even consider it an act of war. The other people on the same subcontinent are shown to be of varying cultures; the heroic northern states are largely described with asian features, the ones in the south are very tan and similar to latinos.

The books are primarily told through the POVs of the five Emond's field characters, two of which are women. Of the two, Egwene becomes the Amyrlin seat in a long plot through the books that focuses on overcoming trauma, sisterhood, female mentorship, placing your own goals over those of men. I won't talk about Nynaeve cause she my favourite character in fantasy fiction so I am biased

So yeah, the Wheel of Time did not need help to celebrate women, it does so constantly with Egwene, Nynaeve, Birgitte, Moirane, Verin, Siuan, Morgase and so many others. The main cast DID lack diversity because they all originate in an insular community. I understand why this might be changed (though I would hope that if we make Emond's Field race blind then we would do the same to e.g. the Sea Folk). Personally I'd have changed the Aiel and through them Rand.

Now don't get me wrong. Obviously many people do hate the show simply because it has female representation and "forced" diversity. But I cannot believe that would be the fandom at large. An incel would not go through multiple books that focus on Egwene.

[Mace]

The significant majority of people in a position of power in the books are women. The books have a massive array of races and cultures, from the multicultural and multiracial Seanchan to the Sea Folk who are depicted as dark black and the Sharrans who are mostly shown as SE Asian. The only predominantly white people are in the Midlands and the books continuously shows the many surrounding cultures to be more successful than the midlands (who are plagued by palace politics); one of the foundation events of the world's recent history is the Aiel War where the Aiel pretty much invade the midlands to kill one of their kings with no difficulty and just return home and don't even consider it an act of war. The other people on the same subcontinent are shown to be of varying cultures; the heroic northern states are largely described with asian features, the ones in the south are very tan and similar to latinos.

The books are primarily told through the POVs of the five Emond's field characters, two of which are women. Of the two, Egwene becomes the Amyrlin seat in a long plot through the books that focuses on overcoming trauma, sisterhood, female mentorship, placing your own goals over those of men. I won't talk about Nynaeve cause she my favourite character in fantasy fiction so I am biased

So yeah, the Wheel of Time did not need help to celebrate women, it does so constantly with Egwene, Nynaeve, Birgitte, Moirane, Verin, Siuan, Morgase and so many others. The main cast DID lack diversity because they all originate in an insular community. I understand why this might be changed (though I would hope that if we make Emond's Field race blind then we would do the same to e.g. the Sea Folk). Personally I'd have changed the Aiel and through them Rand.

Now don't get me wrong. Obviously many people do hate the show simply because it has female representation and "forced" diversity. But I cannot believe that would be the fandom at large. An incel would not go through multiple books that focus on Egwene.

You are right, the book already celebrated women, it was already strong on women. It did not need more. I actually quite liked that about the books, despite being male. It was well balanced I felt, had no problems iwth so many women in control or power and actually being the controlling gender in the age. It wasn't written to satisfy feminist agenda objectives or criteria either, It was written to be a good story that actually was capable of appealing to everyone. It was a world that was sufficiently different o are own, but similar enough to relate to despite its sepcial conditions..

You see, but the goal posts have been moved.. now what is considered empowering women, or equality for women is actually female dominance. Look at the SofEE award, and the criteria it uses for determining something empowers women, then look at what the Wheel of time show does. the criteria of the SoFEE award are female domination in literary works.. women must control pretty much everything to be considered as empowering females and qualify for this award.. and so they do not consider the large female roles and dominance of

[Nymrohd]

I actually quite liked that about the books, despite being male.

You realize how this sentence is a huge red flag right?

[Flurryfang]

This is a very hard show to watch as a lover of the books.

It takes a very different direction than the books, almost to a point where it is more its own story than an adaptation, which is why when the departures are bad, it becomes painful to watch.

I think the word which comes to my mind when watching the show is "mis-representation". Like, the show might be good and a lot of people are liking it, but does it really represent what the Wheel of Time story is, what it is about and what it is trying to convey? Some of the major themes of the books are completely ignored and some of them are twisted, making it into some allegory of modern time problems, instead of a generel theme.


After watching most of season 2, i can now say, that the Wheel of Time TV show will never be for me. I am too connected to the books, its themes and its story arcs. Seeing a different interpretation of it, and how much it seperates itself from the books, the show becomes painful to see, no matter how good the acting is or how good a new story they might be making.

While i like that a TV show atleast got made, it does not change, that i am a bit sad, that we did not get a more true-to-the-books story, which i could have enjoyed aswell.

[Surfd]

You realize how this sentence is a huge red flag right?

It's a huge red flag to be male and like literature with strong representations of women in it's depictions of them in culture, politics and as individual characters now? The fuck?