Warrior Order Hall and Storytelling in Legion

[Archimtiros]

Another repost of an alpha discussion for you boys and girls without access. Feel free to comment here or there.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...95602?page=1#0

As the name implies, I've some issues with the presentation of Warrior story and their Order in Legion.

The given idea behind the Order Halls is that we rally members of our class to fight the Legion, which leads me to my first point: Vrykul are not part of our class. As a race they aren't even all Warriors, though some may be, but they have little in common with player-race Warriors. The Valarjar don't even much look like Warriors, considering the overall lack or armor, big weapons, and those who wear robes.

Now I don't want to devolve into whether or not Vrykul should be central to the Warrior class, but I think it's important that Vrykul story doesn't supplant ours entirely, especially when it's not even distinctly Warrior related. This brings me to my second point: little about our Order is unique to Warriors.

• The Valarjar are a faction common to all players,
• the Skyhold is a slightly expanded dungeon, aka the Halls of Valor,
• Odyn, our "patron saint", is a crash-test dummy for every 5 man group that goes through the place.

It makes sense to finish Skovolds story, but how does facing Odyn not undermine the point of giving us, his "chosen Warrior", his blessing to begin with? it only contributes to undermining Warrior lore; you don't exactly see us walking through the Trueshot Lodge killing all the Hunter Pets do you?

Then there are the inconsistencies.

The biggest one in my opinion being that Skyhold is the only Order Hall without any player-race characters, members of the player-factions, or their heroes. While I'm not adverse to creating new lore, this already creates a disconnect from every other story being told, and doesn't lend itself to investing the player in the new story. It's easy to care about reoccurring characters, whom you've had a lot of dealings with over the years, but it's hard to care about a bunch of strangers who probably won't make it into the following expansion.

Along with that, the player is billed as the only living Valarjar, strictly due to Odyn's impression of our abilities. This explains why there are no other player-race Warriors, followers, etc; but is immediately thrown out the window once other Warriors enter the area. Normally they are meant to be treated as "random" members of the class, but that doesn't work for Warriors, as they are told point-blank that they are the only one being allowed in.

Or how about the fact that Hruthnir makes a big deal out of the "great amount of energy" required for Odyn to send Valarjar out of the Skyhold, which would imply that it's not something that should happen wantonly, yet the player does so regularly via the mission board? Truth be told it's a very minor inconsistency, but it is yet another contradiction.

My other major complaint is with the introductory scenario itself.

The player follows faction hero Trollbane/Saurfang on a scouting/kill-everyone mission which quickly goes south. Said hero gets shot down, yet instead of going to look for our longtime ally who seemingly crashed right around the corner from us, we randomly decide to join up with a group of completely unknown Vrykul (who, as a whole, we've traditionally not been on good terms with), because they "don't look hostile" which translates into "lets ignore our friend and get ourselves killed helping strangers". It's just poor reasoning any way you look at it. At the very least we should get some closure to the fate of our ally, rather than expecting them to hearth home. It's even worse when we find them in back in Stormwind/Orgrimar/Dalaran without any mention whatsoever of what happened whatsoever.

An alternate, very similar version:

• Follow Saurfang/Trollbane to Broken Shore.
• Join group of Ally/Horde Warriors fighting Demons.
• Lose badly.
• Vrykul show up and help us.
• Join Vrykul in pressing attack, while faction allies evacuate wounded and retreat.
• Fall in battle with Vrykul in order to save allies, impress Odyn with sacrifice, and go to Halls of Valor.

Basically the same sequence of events, but it:
A) provides closure for allies,
B) better ties the story to the player factions,
C) gives meaning for the player to throw themselves at an overly powerful foe, saving helpless allies rather than trying to impress a random group of Vrykul they should otherwise have no investment in,
D) reinforces Vrykul as powerful Warriors by having them help us, rather than the other way around. This better emphasizes it as a group you want to join, rather than another helpless faction that needs a PC savior.

I'm well aware that everyone can find something to complain about with their Order Hall, but no other class has such obvious flaws. I'm not asking to abandon Skyhold or the Vrykul theme, but I would like to tell a more cohesive story.

[Spunt]

Another repost of an alpha discussion for you boys and girls without access. Feel free to comment here or there.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...95602?page=1#0

Wow, that is kind of depressing that that is how warrior's class hall is shaping up. Really hope they make some changes because that makes no sense at all how they have it set up.

[Deleted]

Wow, that is kind of depressing that that is how warrior's class hall is shaping up. Really hope they make some changes because that makes no sense at all how they have it set up.

lets face it everything about warriors in Legion are just lol compared to other classes

Warrior class hall.......... you wut mate ?

Weapon skins......... looooooooool

Story................are you serious ?

Warrior feedback from players............... all those feedbacks getting shafted and ignored by the devs saying they think its in a good place

[Spunt]

lets face it everything about warriors in Legion are just lol compared to other classes

Warrior class hall.......... you wut mate ?

Weapon skins......... looooooooool

Story................are you serious ?

Warrior feedback from players............... all those feedbacks getting shafted and ignored by the devs saying they think its in a good place

Yeah. based on the feedback I've read, of all the toons I have at 100, Warlock class hall is looking the coolest. The warrior one LOOKS cool, but has fuck all to do with warriors it seems. Never associated warriors with the Vykrul, since I rolled one back in Vanilla. Really bummed out with how it is going.

[Murlocbait]

Wow, that is kind of depressing that that is how warrior's class hall is shaping up. Really hope they make some changes because that makes no sense at all how they have it set up.

That's not even touching on the complete and utter lack of real warrior theme in the hall. The fact that everything is Vrykul in appearance and size. The fact that the Pally hall looks more warrior-ish with weapon racks and sparring grounds. The fact that everything is shining and golden, and lacks any and all warrior aesthetic.

[Denkou]

As a long-time Warrior since 2006, I agree with just about every point made. I played through WotLK when it was current and nothing about the Vrykul strikes me as "omg, warrior!". I've always thought that our order hall, when compared to those of other classes, just didn't really fit the lore and setting well. Paladin, Mage, Rogue, Shaman, those are some classes that have order halls that fit their theme perfectly. Ours just seems to have a too much lore made "on the spot" (i.e. pulled out of Blizzard's ass) with very little to tie it in to the Warrior class itself.

[Spunt]

As a long-time Warrior since 2006, I agree with just about every point made. I played through WotLK when it was current and nothing about the Vrykul strikes me as "omg, warrior!". I've always thought that our order hall, when compared to those of other classes, just didn't really fit the lore and setting well. Paladin, Mage, Rogue, Shaman, those are some classes that have order halls that fit their theme perfectly. Ours just seems to have a too much lore made "on the spot" (i.e. pulled out of Blizzard's ass) with very little to tie it in to the Warrior class itself.

The weapons really scream "pulled straight outta someone's ass".

[Toppy]

Been saying this since the moment we saw the hall, and its only gotten worse with time.

Blizzard doesn't care. They've invested to much into it at this point and will continue pushing that warriors are all wannabe Vrykul with a titan fetish.

[Murlocbait]

Got too busy bitching about Blizz's shitty designs and "story" and forgot to say Thanks Archi for posting this on the official forums! A lot of us don't have a voice in the alpha, and you said what we're thinking and feeling in a place where devs will (hopefully) read it. Might be too late, and might be one more thing the devs are "happy with" even though we don't like it - but at least you're trying. Thanks for that!

[Deleted]

I agree, it's depressing. I am not yet sure whether I will get Legion or not, but if I do, I will probably just get my warrior (has been my main ever since I started playing WoW almost a decade ago) to max level and then focus on DK/ paladin. Paladin have an awesome class hall and both have great quest lines (that have at least some impact, unlike us, that are just running errands).

[Toppy]

I wish I could bump the thread in question. But, ironically, I was banned for stating that Kosak would have to be an idiot for stating that Uldum was the best written zone in Cata (which he did back at the end of cata).


I mean heck, I said it in a half joking thread on my servers forum. Guy holds a grudge. I couldnt appeal it.

[Denkou]

I wish I could bump the thread in question. But, ironically, I was banned for stating that Kosak would have to be an idiot for stating that Uldum was the best written zone in Cata (which he did back at the end of cata).


I mean heck, I said it in a half joking thread on my servers forum. Guy holds a grudge. I couldnt appeal it.

Uldum was actually my favorite zone, because of the fact that it was all a thinly-veiled Indiana Jones reference and I loved those movies (minus Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, that one was horrid). But yeah, nothing about the writing in that zone was original in any way.

[Punisher069]

Uldum was actually my favorite zone, because of the fact that it was all a thinly-veiled Indiana Jones reference and I loved those movies (minus Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, that one was horrid). But yeah, nothing about the writing in that zone was original in any way.

My boyfriend and I were really looking forward to Uldum but it was handled so poorly. I don't mind references or anything like that but there was so little story outside of Indiana jones it was very disappointing.

[hollafame]

I wonder what motivates you when the response is usually "It's fine."

[Archimtiros]

I wonder what motivates you when the response is usually "It's fine."

The desire to make things better than fine.

[Deleted]

The desire to make things better than fine.

I wonder, how long will you shout at the brick wall untill you give up...

We appreciate that you are trying to make things better for us, warriors. It's just sad we get a little to no attention from blizzard...

[Toppy]

lol

http://legion.wowhead.com/item=141195/odyns-challenge
"Odyn himself invites the most powerful champions of Azeroth to enter his halls and face his warriors."

The plot thickens. Odyns is allowing anyone into his falls to show off how great they are.

[Deleted]

lol

http://legion.wowhead.com/item=141195/odyns-challenge
"Odyn himself invites the most powerful champions of Azeroth to enter his halls and face his warriors."

The plot thickens. Odyns is allowing anyone into his falls to show off how great they are.

Or, if you actually understood Odyn's purpose, he's using it to challenge his Warriors so they're better.

[Archimtiros]

Or, if you actually understood Odyn's purpose, he's using it to challenge his Warriors so they're better.

Which doesn't really change the fact that we're told we're allowed in because we're a special case, but then every other player in the game is also allowed in as well.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel like an ancient Stromgarde fortress would have been better. Help flesh out azeroth further, and get some awesome aesthetics you don't get a lot of in World of Warcraft. Plus.. Who could say no to a Helms Deep 'esque fortress in Arathi?

Not so much Stromgarde, simply due to location, but I absolutely would have taken an old Vrykul fortress, right in the middle of the demonic hordes; with a Bastions Keep (D3) feel of the front-line, constantly under assault, the only thing holding the demons at bay while the rest of the world gets ready to fight back.

I feel this would have been a good middle ground, as it would have allowed Vrykul and even the Watchers to be predominant in the story, but also tie in the player factions and add an air of plausibility, or realism, to the concept. My major problem with the Halls of Valor isn't that it's Vrykul heaven, but that the "warriors" there don't actually do anything. It's outright stated that Odyn can't send them forth to do battle (despite our constantly doing so at the mission board), and the majority of them stand around picking their noses or stuffing their faces rather than train for battle.

Sure, it's fun to think of Warrior heaven where the beer flows freely, but the glorified rest-home kind of takes the "war" out of Warcraft, and they don't exactly seem to concerned with the coming apocalypse now do they?

It could have made for pretty decent campaign progression too:

• Start out with old decrepit fortress
• discover ancient forge to fix up artifacts
• recruit Horde, Ally, Vrykul, Watcher forces to help defend it
• build up and improve the infrastructure until it's complete with blacksmiths, siege-engines, etc
• fight off never-ending wave of demons
• ???
• profit.

[TylerWildstar]

I feel like the "Right" order hall for warriors would have been a Garrison, but they won't touch that with a ten foot pole after WoD.