So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Woobels]

Are we really discussing Widowmaker's viability on koth compared to 76 lol?

She's awful there unless you grossly outskill the enemy team, her best maps are Hollywood, Eichenwald and Anubis offense etc, Gibraltar offense is great for her too.

Basically maps with high ground where she can get important picks which let you roll through the rest of the game, she's exceptionally on koth because it's constant team fighting which is her weakness.

[Tziva]

All things being equal, it basically is though; that's the whole point of balance and Widow hasn't been touched or mentioned in getting on for a year now. There will be situational variances, but unless you're suggesting that snipers are specifically very underpowered - which they're not - then you're just going back over the overall composition being bad. And, it's not bad always and specifically because someone picked a sniper.

People like you and Endus have very specific expectations of what you want them to do and be. You want them to be Kephrii's highlight reel and snap shot everyone all the time from grapple jumps. That's not even realistic for Kephrii most of the time and certainly not at levels below where they play. And you're never, ever going to get to play with players who can do that unless you're on their level with your main hero.

That's where this whole gap in perception and dichotomy really comes in, through this ridiculous expectation from seeing the high skill ceiling and that becoming a norm which you expect but never see. If you do see a player doing that, you won't be playing with them long.

No, that's not what I expect or what I want. Nor am I asserting anything in particular about the overall power/balance of snipers. I would say those things aren't even particularly relevant. All I'm arguing is that some heroes are designed to allow average skill level players to contribute more to their teams than others because of their design, and that some heroes can be devalued if you're not especially good on them. I'm saying that Widow is an example of the latter.

Ultimately all I want is for people to pick the heroes that most contribute to the game once the map, our team comp, and the enemy team comp is taken into account. The design of the game generally tends to favour heroes who do well in teamfights, push objectives, and can contribute to team kills, especially in lower ranks where crazy skill can't make up for doing something different. Widow is seldom on the point or payload putting pressure on the objective, and there are plenty of maps where just getting a few picks isn't going to be enough to take the point. She's fabulous at getting picks, but picks are not always what a team wants or needs at a given point in time. Almost all other heroes offer other things to assist the group in those ways, whether it's something supportive or whether its just a mere presence on the objective. In order to make up for not offering those things, Widow really needs to excel in other areas to make up for it. Since her whole kit is focused around being a killing machine, that means that I think in order for her presence on the team to be justified (outside of contexts where she is specifically picked to counter something or get a few quick picks at the start before swapping) she needs to get more kills, and smarter kills, than her teammates can pull off. Which is really uncommon in lower ranks, and also is really only compatible with certain maps. Bronze and Silver Widows certainly exist but I'm arguing that if you're bronze or silver skill, you're almost certainly going to be more helpful to your team on a number of other heroes. Widow isn't the only hero that is this way, she's just the extreme example.

And yes, Endus does think there's nothing in between, he's explicit in saying that in his follow up post that he assumes that they sink or climb - never settle.

Well, that's not the way I read it, but I'm not him. I'll just speak for myself then.

[Endus]

All things being equal, it basically is though; that's the whole point of balance and Widow hasn't been touched or mentioned in getting on for a year now. There will be situational variances, but unless you're suggesting that snipers are specifically very underpowered - which they're not - then you're just going back over the overall composition being bad. And, it's not bad always and specifically because someone picked a sniper.

Balance isn't as simple as you think. Characters that have high skill floors aren't automatically "bad" compared to characters with low skill floors, where "skill floor" is the minimum player capability you need to perform to a certain standard. What matters is their skill ceiling; how good at they in top-level play. If you buff or nerf around the skill floors alone, you end up disturbing the balance at the skill ceiling, which is what matters more.

The obvious example was early Torbjorn/Bastion. Hugely complained about in the early days, because both characters had low skill floors, particularly at lower ranks where people just weren't used enough to the game yet. They got some tweaks, but the end result was that people kept complaining about them in low-ranked play as "overpowered", but in high-ranked play, they were almost never picked because their skill ceiling was relatively low and they were easy to counter. This is a big reason why Bastion had his rework, to try and raise that skill floor and skill ceiling somewhat.

People like you and Endus have very specific expectations of what you want them to do and be. You want them to be Kephrii's highlight reel and snap shot everyone all the time from grapple jumps. That's not even realistic for Kephrii most of the time and certainly not at levels below where they play. And you're never, ever going to get to play with players who can do that unless you're on their level with your main hero.

That's explicitly not what I was saying.

I was making the point that Widowmaker's playstyle necessarily creates weaknesses in your team's push/defense. If you aren't providing additional offense to compensate, then you aren't offsetting the weakness you've created, and are likely a detriment to your team. I didn't say you had to hit snap shots all the time, or something. But if you can't do snap shots, you're probably not going to be able to keep pace, it's a major skill component. Just like being able to wall-ride is a major component of Lucio play, or being good enough with Roadhog's hook that you can reliably snag Lucios, flying Pharahs, and react fast enough to ults like Reaper's to cancel them.

And yes, Endus does think there's nothing in between, he's explicit in saying that in his follow up post that he assumes that they sink or climb - never settle.

I was operating under the premise that everyone at a given rank is roughly the same player skill level. I'm suggesting there's a "tipping point" for high-skill-floor heroes where, if you can pass it, you become a much stronger contribution to the team than if you don't, more than just the gradual improvement of skill for most heroes. Being able to do snap shots, for snipers, is a big such thing. If you can do it, you're probably a nightmare Widow for the enemy team. Without it, you'll be struggling. If you're not great with Widowmaker, and you insist on playing her every match, you're probably going to lose more than you win, and sink. That's literally all I said.

It might be possible that someone's instalocking Widow and playing at, say, a 2400 skill level, but could be a diamond player if they played less-niche heroes, too. Which you're overlooking.

The only time you should be instalocking a hero, especially a DPS hero, is if you know you can carry your team with that hero. I instalock Lucio these days, but that's because he's nearly always a solid pick and most healer mains I run into main Ana or Mercy anyway. If someone else wanted Lucio, I could play something else, but I haven't had a single complaint thus far. I'd apply that same rationale to people instalocking Soldier 76, for that matter. This is a game reliant on team composition, and locking in with a particular hero and refusing to swap for the team's strategy/enemy's composition is a bad decision, period.

[Jessicka]

It might be possible that someone's instalocking Widow and playing at, say, a 2400 skill level, but could be a diamond player if they played less-niche heroes, too. Which you're overlooking.

I don't think that's true at all, I don't think you can play more than 3-4 heroes at a level that would even out. I know I play Widow and DVa on a pretty even level (albeit with a much better win rate with the latter, and that's because I'm more 'in control' - I can push if our Widow takes out 3 players; I can't take out 3 players and guarantee our tank will push), and Ana too to an extent; but when I'm pressed into being "flexible" my SR gains drop and my losses increase while for those three it's a pretty level 20-25 either way, but it gets highlighted when I've been pressured into picking Reinhardt and I gain 12SR or lose over 30. I just refuse to play him anymore in comp, because it's not worth it for me. I'm at a point where I'll go Widow when the game is gone because I find her best for mitigating my own losses; the reason I don't pick her normally is purely because of the abuse, tilting and even throwing I've had when I have picked her.

But, you're simply not going to see a several hundred SR difference picking 'less niche' heroes. Remember, you get diminishing returns on a high win rate if your own ability isn't increasing along side it.

[Freighter]

How does the rating gain work in this game? My friend got 18 rating when we won a game and I got almost 100? Why did I get that much? Went from 2153 to 2248.

[Deleted]

How does the rating gain work in this game? My friend got 18 rating when we won a game and I got almost 100? Why did I get that much? Went from 2153 to 2248.

You'll gain more rating from wins for a while after finishing your placements.

[Freighter]

You'll gain more rating from wins for a while after finishing your placements.

A while? How long is that?

[Advent]

I don't think that's true at all, I don't think you can play more than 3-4 heroes at a level that would even out. I know I play Widow and DVa on a pretty even level (albeit with a much better win rate with the latter, and that's because I'm more 'in control' - I can push if our Widow takes out 3 players; I can't take out 3 players and guarantee our tank will push), and Ana too to an extent; but when I'm pressed into being "flexible" my SR gains drop and my losses increase while for those three it's a pretty level 20-25 either way, but it gets highlighted when I've been pressured into picking Reinhardt and I gain 12SR or lose over 30. I just refuse to play him anymore in comp, because it's not worth it for me. I'm at a point where I'll go Widow when the game is gone because I find her best for mitigating my own losses; the reason I don't pick her normally is purely because of the abuse, tilting and even throwing I've had when I have picked her.

But, you're simply not going to see a several hundred SR difference picking 'less niche' heroes. Remember, you get diminishing returns on a high win rate if your own ability isn't increasing along side it.

This actually makes sense given how Blizzard has explained the SR Gains/Loss system. It does nothing to encourage players to swap to heroes that would "fill" the team composition because it means that, depending on what your comp needs, you may be stuck playing a hero that will cause you to lose more SR if/when you lose than if you played a hero you're particularly comfortable/good with. The system is at odds with what Blizzard and the community often urge their teammates to do.

If I play Zenyatta for several hours in competitive (who I'm "okay-ish" with), but my team needs a Reinhardt and I swap, then if we lose and I lose say 30SR, I am damn sure going to look at my last loss and see (for example) that I only lost 12 when I played Zen. That kind of thing is what informs players--perhaps subconsciously--that they need to stay inside their wheelhouse and play what comes naturally.

[Amirila]

A while? How long is that?

Total of 50 games IIRC

And you can get winning streaks too, even though it's ahrder to achieve as of late

[Freighter]

Total of 50 games IIRC

And you can get winning streaks too, even though it's ahrder to achieve as of late

Hmm. That's a lot of games. I'm gonna end up so far ahead of my friend If I keep getting this many points for every win, currently at 2400 while he's still at 2200, he started higher than me.

[xChurch]

Hmm. That's a lot of games. I'm gonna end up so far ahead of my friend If I keep getting this many points for every win, currently at 2400 while he's still at 2200, he started higher than me.

Could be that the game is judging your friend to not be as good so while it's trying to push you to your "proper" rank, he's already pretty close to his.

[DeadmanWalking]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

I find that Snipers get shit on not only because a vast majority of them suck but they make no other contribution in the game other than killing when you need someone to be on point or contesting a point. They have their role and they do it well but most people can't see the contributions they make because they are not there to be seen.

[BarelyLegalBear]

Just recently came back to the game and holy fuck there's a lot of good players. I feel like complete shit compared to a lot of the playerbase.

[Utok]

Think this game has a big problem with paid for aim-assist hacks and smurf accounts.

[Very Tired]

Does anyone know if there's anything that stops 2 people from having the same name in Overwatch?

[Jester Joe]

Does anyone know if there's anything that stops 2 people from having the same name in Overwatch?

There isn't.

Overwatch doesn't show the numbers that are there after a battletag.

I had two Mercy's in a single match once.

[Deleted]

Think this game has a big problem with paid for aim-assist hacks and smurf accounts.

I don't remember ever seeing aim-assist user in my games, so not that big of a problem. Smurf accounts sadly are becoming more of a problem by day.

[Deleted]

Was playing Soldier as main (20+ hours this season) hovering around 2500/2600 with some horrible drops into 2300/2400, win rate of 51%.. Moved to Zen and now sitting at 2830 and a 61% win rate. Guess I've finally found my niche!

[rarhyx]

so I dropped to complete shit rank again after a losing streak(I know that I'm not that good) and I get a 3-man team on the enemy team with all of them with diamond rank
what the shit
that shouldnt be allowed and possible even if their current rank is around 1000 (570, 1070 and 1270)
their best rank was between 3000 and 3800

[Deleted]

so I dropped to complete shit rank again after a losing streak(I know that I'm not that good) and I get a 3-man team on the enemy team with all of them with diamond rank
what the shit
that shouldnt be allowed and possible even if their current rank is around 1000 (570, 1070 and 1270)
their best rank was between 3000 and 3800

Sadly that kinds of idiots do exist. They derank on purpose so they can "have fun" by playing against by far less skilled opponents.