1. #7761
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Mmmm widowmaker main logic.

    Widowmaker specifically because she provides NO OTHER VALUE other than one-shotting people, especially on a KOTH map... So because 99% of widowmakers aren't grandmaster level CS:GO sniper players, what actually ends up happening is widowmaker feeds the enemy teams supports ultimate after ultimate and the team she is on ends up 5v6ing on the point. This goes for Sombra and Hanzo too... But they have utility outside of sniping to get picks, so it doesn't tilt me NEARLY as much. A bad widowmaker is worse than the worst of ANY OTHER HERO.
    McCree doesn't offer anything else either, nor do Reaper or much of the offence roster. Widow changes up how your opponents have to fight you, often entirely; they don't always do that, and certainly not effectively. I have a positive win rate on Widow, enemies give me far fewer problems than team mates.

    As for "Widow main logic", the hell are you on? My play is split pretty even so far this season between Widow, Orisa, D.Va and Mercy. I can appreciate what all heroes bring, and when I play Mercy, I can see all the mistakes and all the bad play - not all of it comes from Widows, not even most of it. Most match costing bad play comes from the MT or the flanker DPS over-extending; not something Widows are prone to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    Being very very blunt.

    The great ones are Top 500, the good ones are grandmasters, and the average ones are masters.

    Every other one would be better off as a more standard pick because there is a reason why they are still where they are.

    As for the Rein, yea, there are idiots playing everything.
    Ah this myth again, almost like the SR system magically doesn't work for Widowmaker, and shouldn't have the granularity it does for her since they can only fit in a binary of 4k+ or <1k, never in between.

    There's plenty of scope to be able to do enough at your rank, and that applies to any hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    So literally every game with a widowmaker, great. Glad we agree.

    I mean Sombra is still less annoying to have on your team than a widowmaker because Sombra at least provides better healthpacks and hacks... Widowmaker only provides picks, and if she isn't getting picks, she is feeding.
    If she's got to that rank, she's getting picks.

    Winstons in comp cannot play 'hunt the Widowmaker', it doesn't work, it just means they keep overextending and dying; he's really not that big a deal, especially since the grapple buff. Genji can be a problem, but we're fighting similar level Genjis here, if we suck, they generally suck too.

    Stop focusing your ire and tilting because you don't like the hero. Other people make mistakes as well, but you're giving them a free pass they don't deserve either.

  2. #7762
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    McCree doesn't offer anything else either, nor do Reaper or much of the offence roster. Widow changes up how your opponents have to fight you, often entirely; they don't always do that, and certainly not effectively. I have a positive win rate on Widow, enemies give me far fewer problems than team mates.

    As for "Widow main logic", the hell are you on? My play is split pretty even so far this season between Widow, Orisa, D.Va and Mercy. I can appreciate what all heroes bring, and when I play Mercy, I can see all the mistakes and all the bad play - not all of it comes from Widows, not even most of it. Most match costing bad play comes from the MT or the flanker DPS over-extending; not something Widows are prone to do.


    Ah this myth again, almost like the SR system magically doesn't work for Widowmaker, and shouldn't have the granularity it does for her since they can only fit in a binary of 4k+ or <1k, never in between.

    There's plenty of scope to be able to do enough at your rank, and that applies to any hero.

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    If she's got to that rank, she's getting picks.

    Winstons in comp cannot play 'hunt the Widowmaker', it doesn't work, it just means they keep overextending and dying; he's really not that big a deal, especially since the grapple buff. Genji can be a problem, but we're fighting similar level Genjis here, if we suck, they generally suck too.
    If you did enough for your rank, you wouldn't be at that rank. This goes for every hero.

    It goes double for high skill capped heroes considering you would almost always perform better on anything easier to play.

    Also, not a myth pretty much common knowledge.

  3. #7763
    The Insane Boomzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    McCree doesn't offer anything else either, nor do Reaper or much of the offence roster.
    Wrong. Mcree offers a stun grenade + right click combo that even the newest player can understand, and which leads to getting picks easily, on top of an incredibly powerful ultimate. Reaper offers super easy point and shoot at close-range gameplay, a way to prevent feeding (shift), and again a super powerful ultimate. These two heroes are far more versatile even at a base level than widowmaker, whose entire toolset is built around helping her and only her get picks and whose ultimate is effectively useless a huge amount of the time, and even when it is useful requires knowledge of when to use it.
    Last edited by Boomzy; 2018-01-07 at 04:36 PM.
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  4. #7764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    If you did enough for your rank, you wouldn't be at that rank. This goes for every hero.

    It goes double for high skill capped heroes considering you would almost always perform better on anything easier to play.

    Also, not a myth pretty much common knowledge.
    Then why do Genjis and Tracers not get shit on for playing them at low levels? They're often totally ineffective against the sorts of comps you see there.

    Sometimes she's the wrong pick, it goes for any hero. Doesn't mean you should give the player any more shit for it.

  5. #7765
    The Insane Boomzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post

    Winstons in comp cannot play 'hunt the Widowmaker', it doesn't work, it just means they keep overextending and dying; he's really not that big a deal, especially since the grapple buff
    . Genji can be a problem, but we're fighting similar level Genjis here, if we suck, they generally suck too.
    lol what? I'm a golden gun winston and I can assure you this is not the case. The only time this would actually be a problem is if an entire team was built around sheltering a widowmaker, which CAN happen... But if that was happening you wouldn't be using winston to counter it anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Then why do Genjis and Tracers not get shit on for playing them at low levels? They're often totally ineffective against the sorts of comps you see there.
    They do, but again they have utility outside of getting singular picks.
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  6. #7766
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Wrong. Mcree offers a stun grenade + right click combo that even the newest player can understand, and which leads to getting picks easily, on top of an incredibly powerful ultimate. Reaper offers super easy point and shoot at close-range gameplay, a way to prevent feeding (shift), and again a super powerful ultimate. These two heroes are far more versatile even at a base level than widowmaker, whose entire toolset is built around helping her and only her get picks and whore ultimate is effectively useless a huge amount of the time, and even when it is useful requires knowledge of when to use it.
    Freudian slip? Lol. Also wallhack is useful for everyone on the team.

  7. #7767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Freudian slip? Lol.
    Lol yeah when I went back to correct it thats what I thought to myself too haha.
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  8. #7768
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    lol what? I'm a golden gun winston and I can assure you this is not the case. The only time this would actually be a problem is if an entire team was built around sheltering a widowmaker, which CAN happen... But if that was happening you wouldn't be using winston to counter it anyways.

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    They do, but again they have utility outside of getting singular picks.
    In what bracket are you exactly? Golden gun doesn't tell me much.

    Constantly hounding a Widowmaker at a decent MMR is not always the best idea as Winston, Genji is far, far better at that task for example, with the Grapple buff you actually need to put some thought in the match up because she can waste a ton of your time (Granted, you are wasting hers too but your team is more liable to get hurt without the monkey close)

  9. #7769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Also wallhack is useful for everyone on the team.
    It's not very effective while attacking or on a KOTH map though. It's very effective while defending, which is why it's given to a DEFENSE hero, but still requires proper planning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    In what bracket are you exactly? Golden gun doesn't tell me much.
    I didn't mean golden gun as a measure of skill, I don't play competitive nearly enough to be a high level player, I just meant it as "I have played winston for a long fucking time"

    I'm diamond also.
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  10. #7770
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    lol what? I'm a golden gun winston and I can assure you this is not the case. The only time this would actually be a problem is if an entire team was built around sheltering a widowmaker, which CAN happen... But if that was happening you wouldn't be using winston to counter it anyways.

    They do, but again they have utility outside of getting singular picks.
    Lol I have 5 golden guns if we're going to swing those around! Seriously, Winston playing hunt the Widow won't win the match, unless the Widow was carrying, in which case it wasn't wrong for Widow to be on Widow until that point - and they're probably good enough to deal with you anyway if that's the case.

    Genji doesn't have a lot until Dragonblade, unless he can suck people into duels; Tracer is pretty much a pure duellest and is all about singular picks.

  11. #7771
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Then why do Genjis and Tracers not get shit on for playing them at low levels? They're often totally ineffective against the sorts of comps you see there.

    Sometimes she's the wrong pick, it goes for any hero. Doesn't mean you should give the player any more shit for it.
    Genjis always get shit on at low ranks as well, Tracers as well, granted not as much (they have easier mechanics to avoid looking like a shitter)

  12. #7772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post

    Constantly hounding a Widowmaker at a decent MMR is not always the best idea as Winston, Genji is far, far better at that task for example, with the Grapple buff you actually need to put some thought in the match up because she can waste a ton of your time (Granted, you are wasting hers too but your team is more liable to get hurt without the monkey close)[
    I agree completely, I pick winston based on a variety of factors... I don't just see a widowmaker and instantly decide to go for him, that would be retarded.
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  13. #7773
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Lol I have 5 golden guns if we're going to swing those around! Seriously, Winston playing hunt the Widow won't win the match, unless the Widow was carrying, in which case it wasn't wrong for Widow to be on Widow until that point.

    Genji doesn't have a lot until Dragonblade, unless he can suck people into duels; Tracer is pretty much a pure duellest and is all about singular picks.
    They both excel finishing off kills and getting away.

  14. #7774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post

    Genji doesn't have a lot until Dragonblade, unless he can suck people into duels; Tracer is pretty much a pure duellest and is all about singular picks.
    Genji has deflect and dash, and can easily run away. Same with tracer.

    I would also say I have not seen tracer played NEARLY as much as widowmaker, and most of the tracers I have seen have been "tracer mains" so to speak. Also again, powerful combo ultimate.
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  15. #7775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    They both excel finishing off kills and getting away.
    Widow can and will finish, and doesn't need to waste time running away. Not all about pure headshots here, as the myth goes.

  16. #7776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Lol I have 5 golden guns if we're going to swing those around!
    Again I wasn't "swinging" anything around, I was just saying that I have played a lot of winston, enough to feel like investing in a golden gun with him over other heroes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Seriously, Winston playing hunt the Widow won't win the match, unless the Widow was carrying, in which case it wasn't wrong for Widow to be on Widow until that point - and they're probably good enough to deal with you anyway if that's the case.
    Winstons only goal isn't to kill widowmaker, Winston counters a variety of heroes in a variety of situations, including support heroes. In most matches my goal is to pick the mercy and get out.. anything else is a bonus. If playing against widowmaker it's just two heroes that I can directly counter instead of one.
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  17. #7777
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Widow can and will finish, and doesn't need to waste time running away. Not all about pure headshots here, as the myth goes.
    Except a simple wall completely shuts down a widow maker. If a wall is not a factor then any offensive hero could of done what the widow maker can do.

    There is no wasted time running away, they have those abilites baked in.

  18. #7778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    Except a simple wall completely shuts down a widow maker.
    On top of the fact that the HUGE FUCKING RED STREAK THROUGH THE AIR, completely telegraphs where the widowmaker is shooting from... Also unlike genji and tracer. If you don't land the headshot, the person seeing the shot thinks "Uh, oh, better move behind a wall"
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  19. #7779
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    i feel like it should be a bannable offense to get outdamaged as a damage hero by Zenyatta when you lose a game

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Not at all, and you can easily go check that up yourself, I don't bother to hide, I've said before that I'm plat
    which means that you aren't plat because you don't even play comp that's like saying you're a marine so you can start swimming in pussy when you haven't been on a single tour of duty xD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're the one comparing Bastions dps to Mercy's hps and thinking that proves something though. You're just digging yourself a hole.
    yall started whining because i said mercy was the best support in the game because she turns fights 8v6 vs teams without a Mercy and wanted to argue technically in some ways other supports were actually superior which is about is obvious as the fact that water is wet and tacos are good.

  20. #7780
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    i feel like it should be a bannable offense to get outdamaged as a damage hero by Zenyatta when you lose a game



    which means that you aren't plat because you don't even play comp that's like saying you're a marine so you can start swimming in pussy when you haven't been on a single tour of duty xD



    yall started whining because i said mercy was the best support in the game because she turns fights 8v6 vs teams without a Mercy and wanted to argue technically in some ways other supports were actually superior which is about is obvious as the fact that water is wet and tacos are good.
    By that logic, I'm diamond then because that's where I climbed up to when I actually had enough time to play past placements. So I'm not sure if you want to argue I'm not plat then. You cut that part out again though. Either way, my personal skill level is irrelevant to the debate. I do play comp every season to get placements done at least.

    And no one was arguing that Mercy isn't the best at the moment, so maybe you misunderstood a few posts or confused this thread with another.

    I did say Mercy's popularity is always going to be high as long as she can put out a really good hps while being easy to pick up, because not everyone plays healers but at some point you're going to have to. Hps isn't comparable to dps either, because Bastions Max dps comes at too many sacrifices, while Mercy's Max hps doesn't.

    But yes, there are other ways other supports are better. Zen is far better for graviton surge.
    Lucio is far better for a d.va/Mei ult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    I'm not interested in going back and forth on things we have already discussed because we obviously disagree, and I'm fine with that.

    However just as Kasierith is saying, you are severely underestimating how climbing through the ranks and playing the game gives you a much better idea about game state then reading and watching.
    Just to clarify on this, it's not that I'm underestimating, it's I'm talking about this specific case where someone was claiming that the higher your ranking the more you know.

    Which isn't always true. I'd point towards one tricks as an example in that case of people who only know one thing, but know it extremely well. That doesn't mean a one trick Symmetra knows more about Torb than a Diamond Torb player does. The Sym knows how to work around Torb, but not how to play Torb, or how to play around other characters as Torb.

    Hopefully that clears it up a bit at least.
    Last edited by Jester Joe; 2018-01-07 at 06:27 PM.

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