Difficulty level in today's games

[Grogo]

Anyone else getting tired of how much of today's content is spoon fed to gamers now a days? Is this what gamers want? I am having some problems getting into many of today's games, specifically the AAA titles. I will just leave this to consider because I think it sums it up nicely:

http://imgur.com/qUVG8Sc?r

[Aeula]

I play games to unwind and relax. If a game is difficult I find those things impossible to achieve.

Difficult content is something I loathe to have to do in games unless I'm in the mood for it (like recently when I started my survival mode playthrough of fallout 4), hence why I always play on the easiest difficulty. That said I do like my games to last a long time, I just don't like bashing my head against a wall for the majority of that time.

So as far as I'm concerned easy games are great, so long as they have substance and consume time.

[Grogo]

Yeah but you look at Dark Souls series, the gameplay is just so stellar and actually it is not the difficulty behemoth people think it is. Everything in it meshes so well. Some people are leery to try it but once someone commits to giving it a real try a conversion happens many times. I just wish more game would follow in its leadership. We do not need all harder games but there needs to be more like it.

[Pull My Finger]

I think that this particular discussion is generally led poorly. People always talk about "difficulty", and Dark Souls, particularly, is always being portrayed as this ridiculously "hard" game. It doesn't do the game justice, and actually reduces it to what sounds like a one-dimensional gimmick: oh, it's that masochist game, right?

Dark Souls isn't really all that "hard". And yet I understand what people mean, when they criticize "today's" gaming, AAA titles in particular, and often name Dark Souls as the positive counter-example. What Dark Souls essentially is is deep. Everything about it is that way - the difficulty is just part of it. Overall it's just incredibly deep and real. The true gaming experience. That's what most games aren't any more. Dark Souls' difficulty is more a certain type of consequence, rather than a setting of immensely frustrating, or nearly unsolvable challenges. It really isn't all that hard at all. It's just very consequent, and thus extremely visceral. And this makes it incredibly engaging and intense.

That's what modern games are missing. They're just a slideshow of impressively tarted up fluff - "features", as we call it - that players are sleepwalked through. Many games today make the player a specator, a bystander. They're trying to impress, whereas Dark Souls makes you live the moment.

[Deleted]

Dark Souls has no "Game Over" screen. At no point in the game are you forced into the position where you go "Darn, I cannot progress any further, and have to start over"

The XCOM franchise is by this merit a much harder, though still enjoyable, game. Games where you cannot lose, are not hard games, and not challenging. The biggest problem with the majority of modern games is that developers are afraid that if a player see's a GAME OVER screen, they will quit playing. Also, many players will avoid games where it is possible that many hours of playing could ultimately be "wasted" if you die or get so stuck you cannot progress further.

When Dark Souls has an enforced Ironman Mode, then you can call it a hard game.

[VXFadhel]

Not sure why you would mention dark souls and not bring up that it punish you if you "failed". It punish you in more ways than one. For example, running again to the boss instead of just clicking retry and fight him/her again. I know that I played some games that you literally have to restart the game since you get stuck if you don't know what you are doing; However that doesn't make the game more difficult.
Getting one shot or combo-ed to death isn't one. Sure you say "git gud" but that doesn't make it harder. Ever played CoD on Veteran and so on for example? Ninja Gaiden on %$#$%# ?

[panzaghor]

I play games to unwind and relax. If a game is difficult I find those things impossible to achieve.

Difficult content is something I loathe to have to do in games unless I'm in the mood for it (like recently when I started my survival mode playthrough of fallout 4), hence why I always play on the easiest difficulty. That said I do like my games to last a long time, I just don't like bashing my head against a wall for the majority of that time.

So as far as I'm concerned easy games are great, so long as they have substance and consume time.

The problem is that everything is easy nowadays.

[VXFadhel]

The problem is that everything is easy nowadays.

Everything isn't easy, but most would tend to go to the easier settings (If given the choice that is). Thou I am curious if you choose hardest difficulty (available) when you just start playing the game or you don't practice what you preach?

[panzaghor]

i always go for the hardest way e.g: did my leveling from 90 to 100 on the first day of the xpac playing as a sub rogue, i always finish all of my games on the hardest difficult available because i like to think every single one of my moves otherwise i would watch a movie.
http://i.imgur.com/gpiMdYx.jpg

[Grogo]

I think that this particular discussion is generally led poorly. People always talk about "difficulty", and Dark Souls, particularly, is always being portrayed as this ridiculously "hard" game. It doesn't do the game justice, and actually reduces it to what sounds like a one-dimensional gimmick: oh, it's that masochist game, right?

Dark Souls isn't really all that "hard". And yet I understand what people mean, when they criticize "today's" gaming, AAA titles in particular, and often name Dark Souls as the positive counter-example. What Dark Souls essentially is is deep. Everything about it is that way - the difficulty is just part of it. Overall it's just incredibly deep and real. The true gaming experience. That's what most games aren't any more. Dark Souls' difficulty is more a certain type of consequence, rather than a setting of immensely frustrating, or nearly unsolvable challenges. It really isn't all that hard at all. It's just very consequent, and thus extremely visceral. And this makes it incredibly engaging and intense.

That's what modern games are missing. They're just a slideshow of impressively tarted up fluff - "features", as we call it - that players are sleepwalked through. Many games today make the player a specator, a bystander. They're trying to impress, whereas Dark Souls makes you live the moment.

Yeah, spot on. You articulated that much better than I did. Deep and engaging. That is the Dark Souls series in a nutshell. It is also not as tough as people make it out to be, it is fair.

[unfilteredJW]

"People play games for different reasons than me and I don't understand which angers and confuses me!"

[Grogo]

thou I am curious if you choose hardest difficulty (available) when you just start playing the game or you don't practice what you preach?

That is the thing though, the harder difficulties in todays games are just an after thought, the balance is typically shit and it doesnt have the deepness of a Dark Souls game. That is a big difference. DS has so many layers where these other games do not. And again, the difficulty of Dark Souls is over played. There is an adjustment but then you get it, and you get that is is indeed fair and deep, and not a "hardcore" game at all. Big difference. But like Pull My Finger said above, this what most games arent any more, they are not deep, they are pretty fluffy.

[VXFadhel]

While it is nice that you reached level 100 in day 1, you mean to say you played as not "optimal" build for leveling? I am talking about games like Dead Space on Insanity and so on. Tight on ammo, low and always saving your potions on your first play through the game without a guide and so on.

[Grogo]

"People play games for different reasons than me and I don't understand which angers and confuses me!"

Whooosh, right over your head. Thats ok, maybe you can figure it out eventually because that has zero to do with what is being discussed here.

[Pull My Finger]

"People play games for different reasons than me and I don't understand which angers and confuses me!"

Hm. You're bad at this. Feeling a bit butthurt?

That's absolutely not an adequate summary of the OP at all.

[VXFadhel]

That is the thing though, the harder difficulties in todays games are just an after thought, the balance is typically shit and it doesnt have the deepness of a Dark Souls game. That is a big difference. DS has so many layers where these other games do not. And again, the difficulty of Dark Souls is over played. There is an adjustment but then you get it, and you get that is is indeed fair and deep, and not a "hardcore" game at all. Big difference. But like Pull My Finger said above, this what most games arent any more, they are not deep, they are pretty fluffy.

I understand what you are saying but the same can be said about Dark Souls 3 for example. Balance issues, mimic is being a thing to kill instead of something to "oh crab" is this a chest or.. ; The list go on, of course.
You see, sadly, Dark Souls brought and bred some elitism in community. It is a good game, don't get me wrong; But people like to think its the peak of difficulty or hardness or something. It is has it flaws, like many other games before it.

[Grogo]

its the peak of difficulty or hardness or something

It's not though, it is however the peak of deepness. So many layers to it. There is some skill involved but players adapt quickly. Just so much in it and it is a total experience, it leaves other games feeling so damn shallow. More companies need to follow that vein.

[WarpedAcorn]

I'm a bit confused by the topic's title. Games today have a lot of variability in difficulty, and I don't feel that games (as a whole) are easier or harder than before. Most games will feature difficulty sliders that let you choose whether you're cruising through or banging your head. There are always outliers where there are games that are meant to be played through without trouble (like a Tell-Tale game) or games intended for very few people to finish (Rogue Legacy, Darkest Dungeon, ect...).

One of the things modern games do have, is the intention for players to actually finish them. There are plenty of games back in the day where the developers never meant for players to actually finish them, (Chakan: The Forever Man for example). And I don't think games like that should be used as a realistic benchmark.

Another thing to consider is that there are A LOT of games out now, and these games are aimed at a very wide variety of audiences. One weird thing to consider is that the type of people that would come to a message board to talk about video games is an absurdly small subsection of the people who play games. A perceived lowering of difficulty in marketed AAA games would likely be due to the majority of that market being people that don't care for challenge or nuances in games. That's ok, because there are plenty of games out there for other people too.

[VXFadhel]

It's not though, it is however the peak of deepness. So many layers to it. There is some skill involved but players adapt quickly. Just so much in it and it is a total experience, it leaves other games feeling so damn shallow. More companies need to follow that vein.

While it is satisfying, and engaging. I will give you an example of something that felt off in Dark Souls 3. Chests: in Dark Souls 3, you basically hit any chest you find just like Dark Souls 1 (if my memory serves me) but in Dark Souls 2 you can damage the chest that way. So in that aspect Dark Souls 2 is deeper than Dark Souls 3. Dark Souls 3 removed plenty of the improvements that was made in Dark Souls 2.

I will give you another example from a game called Salt and Sanctuary. In that game if you die, you lose your salt in a way(drop em lets say). The monster that killed you, even if it is a boss they will carry them and you will have to kill them to get your salt (In boss cases, you need damage them to certain point to get those Salt back; Non-bosses will be stronger). If you fell over the edge and died, a flying bat lets call it will manifest and will be carrying your salt. Now if you died again before retrieving your Salt (Salt is like Souls in Soul games by the way), you will lose them permanently.

In Dark Souls 3, NG+ you get the same monsters in same locations etc just stronger. In other games and Dark Souls 2, you get extra monsters as well as different types. So yeah, different games use different approach to some things.

WarpedAcorn brought some nice points as well. Ironically, people nowadays is actually trying to play Dark Souls to be part of the elite community that was created back in the days.

[Grogo]

but in Dark Souls 2 you can damage the chest that way.

Actually it would take a few hits to destroy it so anyone could always test it, plus the buckles on the chest were different so you could visibly tell the difference.

Salt and Sanctuary

Interesting game, bought it myself but it was very easy to get lost and stay lost, even so good game and appreciated that they made a scroller game deeper

n Dark Souls 3, NG+ you get the same monsters in same locations etc just stronger. In other games and Dark Souls 2, you get extra monsters as well as different types. So yeah, different games use different approach to some things.

Dark Souls 2 does NG+ much better however, all the Souls games have so much depth and layers that many many games now just do not have. The game series is harder (just not as hard as many portray) but is there a more rewarding game out there in existence? I cannot think of one.