[7.0] Legion Discipline Priest Guide and Discussion

[Supliftz]

Just because it's decent in a highly coordinated and incredibly skilled group, does not mean it's perfectly fine and needs no fixing at all.

Or maybe the issue is players suck at the class. I personally have issues dealing with "bad" players, so maybe it's an issue with them not being as good?

And...what? "Only healer class brought to world first progression" ? Where the hell are you getting that from? All different healers were used, not just Discs.

I think you need to re-read my statement. I never said that disc was the only class that was brough to WF prog, I said it's the only class that can be brought to WF prog, and people qq for buffs.

And criticism is not "QQ".

I'm pretty sure calling for massive buffs to abilities is considered QQ mate. Unless you don't believe increasing PW:R to 5 targets isn't overpowered or anything.

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Shadow Covenant isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's a decently sized group heal and eats up any overhealing. There's a lot of times where there's one big AoE damage like on the first boss in Black Rook Hold, and then no damage for 6+ seconds, so the debuff from Shadow Covenant just falls off. The only bad thing about it is that you lose the 3 target Atonement that Power Word: Radiance brings. I probably wouldn't run it in raids, but it's decent in 5 mans.

then you run into the problem where you don't have a 30% increase to shadow mend healing for spot healing/tank healing.

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Currently Shadow but will spec swap

How is Disc in M+ (8 to 10) ?

the spec has done +11 @863, and will likely be able to do +15 at 870.

[anon5123]

Or maybe the issue is players suck at the class. I personally have issues dealing with "bad" players, so maybe it's an issue with them not being as good?

Yes, of course. What was I thinking? Blizzard's class design is 100% flawless and there are absolutely no problems with any classes whatsoever. Anyone who has any issues is just "bad".

Just like all those shadowpriests getting outdps'd in 5mans? Just "bad" obviously!

Please stop with this highly elitist attitude of "oh, I can do fine with the class, therefor it's perfect and needs no fixes and you're all just BAD!"

I think you need to re-read my statement. I never said that disc was the only class that was brough to WF prog, I said it's the only class that can be brought to WF prog, and people qq for buffs.

Point still stands. Just because a class is in "WF progression" does not mean that it is 100% perfect and needs no fixes at all.

I'm pretty sure calling for massive buffs to abilities is considered QQ mate. Unless you don't believe increasing PW:R to 5 targets isn't overpowered or anything.

For its current mana cost, cast time and healing amount? Yeah, PWR deserves to hit 5 targets.

And no, calmly asking for buffs with explanations behind each one is not "QQ".

This is QQ: "OMG BLIZZ CLASS SUCKS BUFF US NOW"

Bit of a difference.

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casually was doing world quests on my priest alt in disc spec last week because it's faster than doing it in holy spec and then it hit me hard.... i forgot to switch my loot specialization and got the disc waist penance legendary. So i thought why not give it a try and play disc.
Everything was completely fine i did some mythic dungeons with a premade group and even some mythic+ up to completing a level 5 key with 2 chests and i suprisingly really enjoyed the spec. However this started to fade quickly after trying to queue for pug mythic groups.... EVERYTIME something wipy happens someone trys to blame it on the fact that i play disc and they tell me i should switch to holy or some other stupid comment.
Is it just me or are you guys experiencing similar things... if yes how do you respond or defend yourself because i tried it in multiple ways but always fear i get removed if i dont give in and say something like "i am sorry i will try harder"...Is this just the disc life? because it really makes me not want to be disc anymore even though i kinda like the spec

IMO Disc is actually better than Holy in 5mans, at least once you get to a Mythic+ level.

At that level, every healer is spamming their "flash heal" equivalent, and Disc has the strongest one, especially with Grace and Twist of Fate. If you're in groups with people who cry and whine at the healer every time something goes wrong, then leave those groups. They're not worth your time.

[Totaltotemic]

For its current mana cost, cast time and healing amount? Yeah, PWR deserves to hit 5 targets.

And no, calmly asking for buffs with explanations behind each one is not "QQ".

This is QQ: "OMG BLIZZ CLASS SUCKS BUFF US NOW"

Bit of a difference.

You clearly don't understand what you're saying then. Just casually suggesting that the highest healing spell a spec has should just do 60% more than what it already does is absolutely insane.

[anon5123]

You clearly don't understand what you're saying then. Just casually suggesting that the highest healing spell a spec has should just do 60% more than what it already does is absolutely insane.

PWR itself already does shit healing, so making it hit 2 more targets isn't "insane". Especially when it costs like 6% mana.

and I never said that it was the only solution. Either increase its targets healed or reduce its mana cost/cast time.

[Supliftz]

Yes, of course. What was I thinking? Blizzard's class design is 100% flawless and there are absolutely no problems with any classes whatsoever. Anyone who has any issues is just "bad".

Just like all those shadowpriests getting outdps'd in 5mans? Just "bad" obviously!

Please stop with this highly elitist attitude of "oh, I can do fine with the class, therefor it's perfect and needs no fixes and you're all just BAD!"

I think there's a pretty big difference between top end shadow priests being unable to rival the dps of fire mage/ww/rogue/etc in dungeons, and disc priest actually doing the same level of difficulty as other healers at the top end skill level. I can quite easily heal through mistakes in 5 mans as a disc priest. Obviously people lack the skill to do that with disc priest, so the problem is a skill based, rather than class based.

Yes, you could argue that performing to an acceptable level as a disc priest takes more skill, and is a class based problem. However, this isn't like mistweaver in the past. You can just re-spec holy and press 2 buttons and win.

I just want to point out that the argument of "getting good" works in a lot of other video games, so why can't it apply to world of warcraft?

Point still stands. Just because a class is in "WF progression" does not mean that it is 100% perfect and needs no fixes at all.

I didn't disagree in any of my posts that disc doesn't need QoL fixes (such as issues with purge the wicked cleaving). That said, calling for massive buffs to abilities such as contrition, power word radiance, and plea, when then class is being taken to world first progression is highly questionable.

If you created the same argument for classes like holy paladin, people would shut you down instantly. Why is this different for disc priest?

For its current mana cost, cast time and healing amount? Yeah, PWR deserves to hit 5 targets.

And no, calmly asking for buffs with explanations behind each one is not "QQ".

This is QQ: "OMG BLIZZ CLASS SUCKS BUFF US NOW"

Then I have to say, you're actually pretty fucking clueless about disc priest mate. Do you honestly believe at disc's current numbers, that buffing PW:R by upwards of 60% would not break disc priest completely. Do you seriously believe this.

I honestly believe people don't understand how truly overpowered of a spell PW:R actually is. It needs all these limitations because it's -that- fucking good.

The best part of this is PW:R used to hit 5 targets in alpha, (with atonements that lasted for 7 seconds), and was extremely overpowered. It was nerfed the next build after the first ursoc raid test. So I can say with total confidence, that buffing PW:R to 5 targets would mean a x2-3 disc priest healer meta.

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PWR itself already does shit healing, so making it hit 2 more targets isn't "insane". Especially when it costs like 6% mana.

and I never said that it was the only solution. Either increase its targets healed or reduce its mana cost/cast time.

This boss right here shows are truly clueless you are about disc priest.

You don't fix "problems" by massively buffing the best part of the kit.

Also this meme about "well PW:R itself does shit healing, that's why it needs buffs!" needs to die.

[PeopleReady]

I think there's a pretty big difference between top end shadow priests being unable to rival the dps of fire mage/ww/rogue/etc in dungeons, and disc priest actually doing the same level of difficulty as other healers at the top end skill level. I can quite easily heal through mistakes in 5 mans as a disc priest. Obviously people lack the skill to do that with disc priest, so the problem is a skill based, rather than class based.

Yes, you could argue that performing to an acceptable level as a disc priest takes more skill, and is a class based problem. However, this isn't like mistweaver in the past. You can just re-spec holy and press 2 buttons and win.

I just want to point out that the argument of "getting good" works in a lot of other video games, so why can't it apply to world of warcraft?



I didn't disagree in any of my posts that disc doesn't need QoL fixes (such as issues with purge the wicked cleaving). That said, calling for massive buffs to abilities such as contrition, power word radiance, and plea, when then class is being taken to world first progression is highly questionable.

If you created the same argument for classes like holy paladin, people would shut you down instantly. Why is this different for disc priest?



Then I have to say, you're actually pretty fucking clueless about disc priest mate. Do you honestly believe at disc's current numbers, that buffing PW:R by upwards of 60% would not break disc priest completely. Do you seriously believe this.

I honestly believe people don't understand how truly overpowered of a spell PW:R actually is. It needs all these limitations because it's -that- fucking good.

The best part of this is PW:R used to hit 5 targets in alpha, (with atonements that lasted for 7 seconds), and was extremely overpowered. It was nerfed the next build after the first ursoc raid test. So I can say with total confidence, that buffing PW:R to 5 targets would mean a x2-3 disc priest healer meta.

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This boss right here shows are truly clueless you are about disc priest.

You don't fix "problems" by massively buffing the best part of the kit.

Also this meme about "well PW:R itself does shit healing, that's why it needs buffs!" needs to die.

I'd be pleased as punch if they removed all healing from radiance in exchange for a faster cast time.

[Pearl1717]

Shadow Covenant isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's a decently sized group heal and eats up any overhealing. There's a lot of times where there's one big AoE damage like on the first boss in Black Rook Hold, and then no damage for 6+ seconds, so the debuff from Shadow Covenant just falls off. The only bad thing about it is that you lose the 3 target Atonement that Power Word: Radiance brings. I probably wouldn't run it in raids, but it's decent in 5 mans.

And you're wasting a talent on SC. If theres no damage in 6secs where you could let the absorb fall off, then why do you need SC to "burst" heal people back up. Why not let atonement passively heal them up over those 6 seconds instead? Youre trading huge ST healing potential for an AOE heal that doesn't even outpace standard disc play.

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PWR itself already does shit healing, so making it hit 2 more targets isn't "insane". Especially when it costs like 6% mana.

and I never said that it was the only solution. Either increase its targets healed or reduce its mana cost/cast time.

You clearly don't understand where the strength of PWR comes from. The initial healing it does is insignificant compared to the healing via atonement.

For 1 PWR cast, you're look at ~2500% sp just from two penance casts and letting swp/ptw tick. That doesn't include the 650% sp heal it does. So 3150%sp healing per PWR cast? 500%sp/%mana is not good? That's not even taking into account any trait bonuses, extra smites, mb etc that you would have too.

[Totaltotemic]

There's literally no point in continuing any kind of conversation with anyone that, this far into Legion, still thinks PWR has too long of a cast time, doesn't hit enough targets, doesn't do enough direct healing, or costs too much mana. It's like arguing over whether 2+2=4 or not for months on end.

You're simply not qualified to have any kind of actual discussion about the design direction of Disc or anything at all to do with its design if you are still stuck on that laughably wrong idea.

[anon5123]

Yes, you could argue that performing to an acceptable level as a disc priest takes more skill, and is a class based problem. However, this isn't like mistweaver in the past. You can just re-spec holy and press 2 buttons and win.

No, "respec holy" is not a valid answer to a spec being clunky and hard to play.

I just want to point out that the argument of "getting good" works in a lot of other video games, so why can't it apply to world of warcraft?

Because WoW is a numbers-based game, no amount of "git gud" will increase the spellpower coefficients of your spells.

That said, calling for massive buffs to abilities such as contrition, power word radiance, and plea, when then class is being taken to world first progression is highly questionable.

Those talents are broken and horribly underpowered, that's why people are calling for them to be buffed.

Literally nobody is taking Contrition because Twist of Fate and Power Infusion are infinitely better.

Then I have to say, you're actually pretty fucking clueless about disc priest mate.

Thanks for the insult.

Do you honestly believe at disc's current numbers, that buffing PW:R by upwards of 60% would not break disc priest completely. Do you seriously believe this.

It'd alleviate Disc's huge mana problems that no other healer has, yes.

And for the 3rd time, I never said that "PWR +60%" was the only solution, so I'm not sure why you're so persistent with pushing that idea and nothing else.

This boss right here shows are truly clueless you are about disc priest.

And another insult. Lovely.

Also this meme about "well PW:R itself does shit healing, that's why it needs buffs!" needs to die.

And some strawman arguments. Nice.

There's literally no point in continuing any kind of conversation with anyone that, this far into Legion, still thinks PWR has too long of a cast time, doesn't hit enough targets, doesn't do enough direct healing, or costs too much mana. It's like arguing over whether 2+2=4 or not for months on end.

You're simply not qualified to have any kind of actual discussion about the design direction of Disc or anything at all to do with its design if you are still stuck on that laughably wrong idea.

Correct. There's no point in continuing any kind of conversion with people who will cry "GIT GUD! GIT GUD!" when others point out flaws with the spec, and fill their posts with insults and elitism.

[Djriff]

It's not about crying "Git Gud", but you need to understand how to play the spec. Like you're calling for buffs to spells that don't need it and are already balanced. Disc does have problems, but PW: R definitely isn't it.

[Totaltotemic]

It's not elitism to say that someone has no clue what they are talking about. If you have trouble understanding that C-A-T spells "cat" and refers to a four-legged animal with fur that is part of the feline family, then you quite clearly have no place discussing cat biology or breeding.

Understanding that PWR does more healing than every other spell Disc has and more than similar spells like Wild Growth, Chain Heal, Prayer of Healing, etc. is the C-A-T of Disc. If you don't get that, then you can't possibly have a good enough grasp on how the spec works to talk about changing it.

[Iry]

I'd be pleased as punch if they removed all healing from radiance in exchange for a faster cast time.

I can absolutely agree with this. Alternatively, it would be very nice if Rapture applied four atonement to the lowest health raid members instead of what it currently does. This would make prepping for burst much smoother and help address the Whack-A- Mole play style so many people seem to dislike.

[anon5123]

you need to understand how to play the spec.

...And I do. I've been doing fine in H EN. It's over a month into the expac, "you just need to learn how to play" is still not a valid argument.

But just because a class is "fine" doesn't mean that there's nothing at all wrong with it and it needs no fixes at all.

Like you're calling for buffs to spells that don't need it and are already balanced. Disc does have problems, but PW: R definitely isn't it.

PWR's mana cost is a problem, I'd say. It originally hit 5 targets and that's why it had a slow cast time and high mana cost, but it was nerfed to 3 targets...with the same cast time and mana cost.

Thus, leading to Disc having huge mana issues, leading to having to "not cast" just to not OOM, which isn't very fun.

Disc is not bad or unviable, but it's not perfect either. Still has lots of things that need to be fixed.

[Totaltotemic]

PWR's mana cost is a problem, I'd say. It originally hit 5 targets and that's why it had a slow cast time and high mana cost, but it was nerfed to 3 targets...with the same cast time and mana cost.

This is false. It never hit 5 targets for full Atonement duration.

Also "I've done HEROIC RAIDS, that means I totally know exactly what I'm talking about and can't possibly be wrong or bad at the game" is what elitism actually is. It's also hypocritical, because if that's a measure then I've done Mythic and therefore know much more than you.

[Pearl1717]

...And I do. I've been doing fine in H EN. It's over a month into the expac, "you just need to learn how to play" is still not a valid argument.

But just because a class is "fine" doesn't mean that there's nothing at all wrong with it and it needs no fixes at all.


PWR's mana cost is a problem, I'd say. It originally hit 5 targets and that's why it had a slow cast time and high mana cost, but it was nerfed to 3 targets...with the same cast time and mana cost.

Thus, leading to Disc having huge mana issues, leading to having to "not cast" just to not OOM, which isn't very fun.

Disc is not bad or unviable, but it's not perfect either. Still has lots of things that need to be fixed.

Do you still not understand that pwr heals for more per mana spent than other healers aoe spells? I don't understand how you don't realize this...

It was nerfed to 3 targets because having a spell that could do >5000% sp per cast was grossly over powered.

[Djriff]

...And I do. I've been doing fine in H EN. It's over a month into the expac, "you just need to learn how to play" is still not a valid argument.

When you're arguing about changing a spec without understanding the fundamentals of how the spec works and why certain spells are already powerful, yes it is.

But just because a class is "fine" doesn't mean that there's nothing at all wrong with it and it needs no fixes at all.

You quoted me saying that literally right below this. Disc does have some problems and could use some slight fixes, but it's not completely broken.

PWR's mana cost is a problem, I'd say. It originally hit 5 targets and that's why it had a slow cast time and high mana cost, but it was nerfed to 3 targets...with the same cast time and mana cost.

Umm i never saw it hit 5 targets, that would be insanely OP.

Thus, leading to Disc having huge mana issues, leading to having to "not cast" just to not OOM, which isn't very fun.

This is the new healing game. Sometimes you have to wait. Other heals have to swap to lower costing mana spells or just flat out wait a bit. You need to adjust to the new style of healing.

Disc is not bad or unviable, but it's not perfect either. Still has lots of things that need to be fixed.

Exactly, but wanting to buff PW: R by that would make us OP.

[PeopleReady]

So I obtained a 865 Seventh Spine from my cache this week. Coupled with the 850 promises, it was near impossible for me to run out of mana on a +3 NL triple chest run which we finished even way ahead of the 3x timer.

[anon5123]

without understanding the fundamentals of how the spec works.

Not sure why everyone immediately jumps to "you don't know how to play" over differences of opinion on a class's strength. Again insinuating that Blizzard's class design is 100% flawless and infallible, and any problems are 100% the player's fault.

I guess all those Spriests struggling in 5mans just don't know the fundamentals of how the spec works, and need to git gud.

Umm i never saw it hit 5 targets, that would be insanely OP.

Back in alpha it originally hit 5 targets. But was nerfed to 3 targets, with the same mana cost and same slow cast time. PWR could really use a mana cost reduction.

This is the new healing game. Sometimes you have to wait. Other heals have to swap to lower costing mana spells or just flat out wait a bit. You need to adjust to the new style of healing.

As Holy, I don't have to stop casting repeatedly just to not OOM halfway through the fight. Neither does Druid or Shaman or Paladin or Monk.

Another problem with Disc is that even doing a "low mana" rotation still drains your mana faster than other healers.

This isn't "new style", this is "Disc having broken mana costs".

[Pearl1717]

Not sure why everyone immediately jumps to "you don't know how to play" over differences of opinion on a class's strength. Again insinuating that Blizzard's class design is 100% flawless and infallible, and any problems are 100% the player's fault.

I guess all those Spriests struggling in 5mans just don't know the fundamentals of how the spec works, and need to git gud.

Except when you have people that have played the class extensively, and can play it well, telling you what you're saying would make the class incredibly broken because you have issues with it, it is a l2p issue, not a class issue.

Back in alpha it originally hit 5 targets. But was nerfed to 3 targets, with the same mana cost and same slow cast time. PWR could really use a mana cost reduction.

And it also applied atonement for 7.5 seconds, and it was horribly overpowered at that. Even in it's current form, PWR heals for a ludicrous amount per mana spent. I don't get why you don't see this. Who cares if it has a high mana cost relative to other spells, its offset by the fact that it does so much healing.

[Franarok]

Yeah, it heals a lot per mana used....But disco still has real mana problems. Ok if they dont decrease radiance cost...but give us mana safe on other stuff


And not always we have a druid to cast innervate. Some raids even dont have balance druids (like mine xD)