[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[Palaryel]

How will this change StMs place in the lvl 100 talents?
I know MS is shit, but I'm talking about the other talent, can't remember its English name, as I'm playing with the German client. I mean with t19 4p (no Void bolt CD for 6sec after entering Void form), won't that be better then?

StM is still the most powerful level 100 talent for raids....

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[Kaesebrezen]

StM is still the most powerful level 100 talent for raids....

That's because the other two are fucking garbage and provide a 0 DPS increase.

[Tharid]

OR they could make balance changes based on data from 110 and not from pre-patch. IDK, just a thought.

There's still something called Beta going on at the moment, and it still produces valuable data.

Apart from that, everyone who tried this talent on live serves AND knows about artifact talents has to agree that this nerf is fully justified, even without knowing the "real" consequences the nerf would bring during 110 progression.

I personally love these prepatch changes since it shows that they're trying to balance every class as much as they can before the expansion actuallyy hits. That way they avert the nerfs during progression and their impact, as already mentioned above.

[justflayin]

There's still something called Beta going on at the moment, and it still produces valuable data.

Apart from that, everyone who tried this talent on live serves AND knows about artifact talents has to agree that this nerf is fully justified, even without knowing the "real" consequences the nerf would bring during 110 progression.

I personally love these prepatch changes since it shows that they're trying to balance every class as much as they can before the expansion actuallyy hits. That way they avert the nerfs during progression and their impact, as already mentioned above.

Cool condescneding tone there. Really great. I'm aware the beta is still going on. And yet we still have mindspike and no useable form of AOE. They said in the post that these were changes based on pre-patch. Nerf the talent but make no compensation to stop it from being the only viable talent for raiding is awesome game design.

[Deleted]

I expected a nerf to StM when we get t19 2p. because i imagine the 2p will also get 200% increase, resulting in 3 insanity/dot tick.
What i really didnt expect was a nerf based on the prepatch lol. yes shadow destroyed people in the 70-80% bracket but still was only '4th best' on range dps rankings at 100% on warcraftlogs.

Yes StM is way too strong now since you get 100% / near 100% uptime on fights, but in legion where say a fight takes ~6-8min being 2min in StM wouldnt be nearly as strong as it is now.

and even then this talent has to be used with caution. use it too early and you die before the boss. use it too late and LotV would have been a bigger dps gain.

and they capped everything, it's not like StM could scale out of control. Voidform has a stack limit of 100, and StM a time limit of 3 minutes.

i really cant understand this decission from blizzard. it boggles my mind. i guess they still want to keep shadow in the worst 3 range dps spots like last expansions.

Their must be an alaram somewhere which goes off if shadow leaves the worst 3 ranged dps. our mission should be to find and eliminate that alarm.

[Kaesebrezen]

Apart from that, everyone who tried this talent on live serves AND knows about artifact talents has to agree that this nerf is fully justified, even without knowing the "real" consequences the nerf would bring during 110 progression.

That nerf is just the most laziest, dumbest and cheapest way out of the untuneable mess StM is:

Mass Hysteria, Twist of Fate, Asp Spirits, StM being execute only, T19 bonuses, and the garbage called MSp and 0 DPS LotV add to StM being that good.

But instead of fixing the actual issues, you take the lazy way out.

[Tharid]

But instead of fixing the actual issues, you take the lazy way out.

I never said that this wasn't a lazy hotfix, because it is, I fully agree. And I really, REALLY wish for other alternatives by taking a closer look at LotV/Mindspike, justflayin. No condescending tone

And it doesn't say "based on the prepatch" but "related to the prepatch". It is of course related to the prepatch since they're patching the live servers. It doesn't say what data it is based on though, and I'd be very surprised if this wasn't a nerf that targets live AND beta issues.

I'm just happy that they take any way out of this instead of doing nothing. I'm easily satisfied, I know ... But that's what years of Shadow Priest has made out of most of us, I guess.

[Deleted]

The lack of imagination in the level 100 talents is pretty depressing. Legacy of the Void is lazy, and Mind Spike is just poor. Surrender to Madness probably was too good at 200% insanity generation, but this close to release, I don't see shadow getting any different talents to replace LotV or MS. What a fail.

[Deleted]

OR they could make balance changes based on data from 110 and not from pre-patch. IDK, just a thought.

I'm fairly sure this balance was made in mind of the tier set for nighthold not for prepatch.

- - - Updated - - -

The lack of imagination in the level 100 talents is pretty depressing. Legacy of the Void is lazy, and Mind Spike is just poor. Surrender to Madness probably was too good at 200% insanity generation, but this close to release, I don't see shadow getting any different talents to replace LotV or MS. What a fail.

Be glad you aren't a mm hunter, all talents are locked, you will never swap them, other than for leveling.

[justflayin]

I'm fairly sure this balance was made in mind of the tier set for nighthold not for prepatch.


Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to the recently-released World of Warcraft Pre-expansion Patch. Some of the hotfixes below take effect the moment they were implemented, while others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. This list will be updated as additional hotfixes are applied.

Additional information about the patch could be found below.

Can you read?

[Ilir]

They will need to nerf it again once we're fully geared.

[Deleted]

I expected a nerf to StM when we get t19 2p. because i imagine the 2p will also get 200% increase, resulting in 3 insanity/dot tick.
What i really didnt expect was a nerf based on the prepatch lol. yes shadow destroyed people in the 70-80% bracket but still was only '4th best' on range dps rankings at 100% on warcraftlogs.

Yes StM is way too strong now since you get 100% / near 100% uptime on fights, but in legion where say a fight takes ~6-8min being 2min in StM wouldnt be nearly as strong as it is now.

and even then this talent has to be used with caution. use it too early and you die before the boss. use it too late and LotV would have been a bigger dps gain.

and they capped everything, it's not like StM could scale out of control. Voidform has a stack limit of 100, and StM a time limit of 3 minutes.

i really cant understand this decission from blizzard. it boggles my mind. i guess they still want to keep shadow in the worst 3 range dps spots like last expansions.

Their must be an alaram somewhere which goes off if shadow leaves the worst 3 ranged dps. our mission should be to find and eliminate that alarm.

You do know for the first time since Cata, the majority of top 50 guilds in the world will have 2 shadow priests on progression.

I'm fairly sure the worst ranged class right now is warlock, and it's not even close, even an elemental shaman destroys locks.

[Deja Thoris]

Cool condescneding tone there. Really great. I'm aware the beta is still going on. And yet we still have mindspike and no useable form of AOE. They said in the post that these were changes based on pre-patch. Nerf the talent but make no compensation to stop it from being the only viable talent for raiding is awesome game design.

A condescending tone is all you deserve. Your last post was "seriously lol?" Of course it was nerfed. It was pretty fucking obvious it was overtuned and a nerf was on the cards. Talk about a question that didn't need asking.

Also, everytime a change is made people like you use it as an excuse to air grievances about all the things that they shoulda / coulda / woulda changed instead.

"y u nerf STM, we have no aoe!?"

[Deleted]

Can you read?

How can it be exclusively for prepatch when prepatch hotfixes are identically applied to beta.

If it's on beta then it's an intended change for 110 that also got applied to prepatch at 100.

[justflayin]

A condescending tone is all you deserve. Your last post was "seriously lol?" Of course it was nerfed. It was pretty fucking obvious it was overtuned and a nerf was on the cards. Talk about a question that didn't need asking.

Seriously lol was the best thing I could come up with considering they're not solving anything but not making the talents more competitive. Nerfing something because its too good in the prepatch is stupid. Nerfing somethign because its better than all of the other bad talents instead of doing soemthing about it is stupid. You being a condescneding internet troll because you didn't like my response to soemthing you had no control over is stupid.

Also, everytime a change is made people like you use it as an excuse to air grievances about all the things that they shoulda / coulda / woulda changed instead.

"y u nerf STM, we have no aoe!?"

Spriests not having a viable way to AOE or other useful Lvl 100 talents are completely reasonable thigns to complain about. Troll elsewhere. You didn't like my response, cool. Don't have to be a bitch about it.

How can it be exclusively for prepatch when prepatch hotfixes are identically applied to beta.

If it's on beta then it's an intended change for 110 that also got applied to prepatch at 100.

k, bro.

[Deja Thoris]

Seriously lol was the best thing I could come up with considering they're not solving anything but not making the talents more competitive. Nerfing something because its too good in the prepatch is stupid. Nerfing somethign because its better than all of the other bad talents instead of doing soemthing about it is stupid. You being a condescneding internet troll because you didn't like my response to soemthing you had no control over is stupid.

Your response was kneejerk stupidity.

[justflayin]

Your response was kneejerk stupidity.

I'm sorry it triggered you so.

[Isentropy]

A nerf to StM (as lazy as this nerf is) was expected. For months. Sadly it doesn't actually solve anything in the 100 row, because StM is still by far the best choice for raiding. Not just because it is so good (it is still good) but because Legacy and Mind Spike are such incredibly small DPS increases that it doesn't matter. There is no choice in the row. It's such poor design, it really is - one can only hope that they decide to buff Legacy and Mind Spike in some way.

Shadow's still fine in terms of DPS by the way. Sky's not falling! I think most people's frustrations are because of how poorly they handled the situation.

[Kretan]

I'm really not surprised by this. I actually expect nerfs to shadow in every tier.....just like fire mage has had to deal with in the past. You can't put in the ridiculous scaling shadow has and let it run amok over an expac.

[Deja Thoris]

I'm sorry it triggered you so.

Hardly triggered me. Sorry you can't separate the issues from each other. STM and our aoe.

- - - Updated - - -

A nerf to StM (as lazy as this nerf is) was expected. For months. Sadly it doesn't actually solve anything in the 100 row, because StM is still by far the best choice for raiding. Not just because it is so good (it is still good) but because Legacy and Mind Spike are such incredibly small DPS increases that it doesn't matter. There is no choice in the row. It's such poor design, it really is - one can only hope that they decide to buff Legacy and Mind Spike in some way.

Shadow's still fine in terms of DPS by the way. Sky's not falling! I think most people's frustrations are because of how poorly they handled the situation.

Really (correct me if I'm wrong) but the impact of this comes down to how long we can hold onto void form without keeling over. Any idea what an average stm time looks like pre and post nerf? (Or do people need to sim it out?)