[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[999DaZa]

HT & high mastery builds work really well in M+. I just don't have an equally geared haste build yet to test & compare HT with BoC.

I completely agreed with this, I have geared myself using mainly using M+ and am currently doing +10 with around 872 ilv. I have tried the BoC playstyle but either from my lack of skill or play-style my damage intake overall was a problem (I had legendary feet so was trying to capitalize off the BoF CD reduction on Fort).
After switching to a Mastery=Haste>Vers build with HT spec'd My healer only heals me about 50% of his total healing during trash runs and then the rest on DPS.
I will admit I do feel my damage output is a bit low on single target but aoe packs its good especially with "Ravage seed Pod" a very nice dps increase on aoe trash. At the moment I feel my damage intake is very nice and constant but my dps output annoys me the most.

Also another tip, I m using 1 charge of healing elixirs manually and saving 1 charge as a safety net. I am currently running with EotT, BoB, LS, HE, RJW & HT. I am currently on 18% haste and 33% mastery but those value do change depending which trinket I use as I prefer certain trinkets for different dungeons. My crit is higher than I want it to be as I feel its the worst stat for 5 man content.

[Llarold]

If you're struggling to keep ISB up with BoB & good use of BoC then I'd assume you have quite low haste? If so it might be worth testing out HT instead until you can get to a more comfortable level of haste. The alternative could be that your not TPing enough and being energy capped since you're running CB & RJW which are both using up GCDs.

This is very problematic. At 0 Haste, maintaining ISB using BOB and BoC should be easy enough with decent play. Running RJW is detrimental both offensively and defensively because it deals much less damage than Special Delivery and it fights for globals against better, more important skills like KS/BoF/BS/TP.

Switching to HT is a net loss to Brew Charge generation, so it's not going to make up the difference in any way. You will double your losses.

[Ahsakura]

If you're struggling to keep ISB up with BoB & good use of BoC then I'd assume you have quite low haste? If so it might be worth testing out HT instead until you can get to a more comfortable level of haste. The alternative could be that your not TPing enough and being energy capped since you're running CB & RJW which are both using up GCDs.

At the moment I'm doing M10+'s with EotT, BoB, LS, HE, SD & HT. I only run with 19% haste atm (wasn't getting haste drops so pushed for the 3hit mastery breakpoint) and I'm still often using ISB purely to try and trigger to SD. Assuming I can finally get some haste gear I want to try go back to testing BoC again for the DPS. For where I'm at now though (and given I don't have time atm for Mythic raiding + I have the legendary chest) the HT & high mastery builds work really well in M+. I just don't have an equally geared haste build yet to test & compare HT with BoC.

Very low haste. Just checked and I'm sitting at 6.52% so I might test out HT tonight to see if notice a difference. I'm fairly certain I'm using TP enough but I'll see if I can keep better track of that.

Thanks for the advice!

[Deleted]

This is very problematic. At 0 Haste, maintaining ISB using BOB and BoC should be easy enough with decent play. Running RJW is detrimental both offensively and defensively because it deals much less damage than Special Delivery and it fights for globals against better, more important skills like KS/BoF/BS/TP.

Switching to HT is a net loss to Brew Charge generation, so it's not going to make up the difference in any way. You will double your losses.

True but if your playing 'rotation' right and letting ISB drop then the issue is brew management not brew generation. HT provides a nice defensive benefit and allows people to focus more on brew management rather than combos which is why I'd recommend it for people struggling to keep ISB up. I'd argue you'd get more success playing a simple build well rather than a more complex build badly.

[Llarold]

True but if your playing 'rotation' right and letting ISB drop then the issue is brew management not brew generation.

No, I can't agree with this at all. Brew generation and Brew management are inherently related. Letting ISB drop while actively tanking is not advisable. There can be situations in which Purifying an enormous Stagger is worth letting ISB drop, but they are extremely few and far between and virtually always a function of over-Purifying or poor BOB and BC usage.

TMI is still a relevant metric, and there is never a justification for making your health spikier, particularly since GotOx spawning is based off of pre-mitigation damage taken.

I'd argue you'd get more success playing a simple build well rather than a more complex build badly.

Agreed. Dropping RJW is the change that needs to be made before swapping multiple strong talents in favor of inferior ones.

[keqe]

TMI is still a relevant metric, and there is never a justification for making your health spikier, particularly since GotOx spawning is based off of pre-mitigation damage taken.

Agree on the principle, but GotO isn't based on pre-mitigation, just pre-stagger. But it also means that purifying increases the amount of GotO orbs we get compared to our actual health lost. Because game thinks we took 10 million damage but we purified 4 million of it we take only 6 million actual and get orbs worth of 10m. So IsB doesn't have good, if any, synergy with GotO. Outside of IsB-Purify relations of course.

But dropping IsB is rarely the right option as you said.

[Llarold]

Agree on the principle, but GotO isn't based on pre-mitigation, just pre-stagger. But it also means that purifying increases the amount of GotO orbs we get compared to our actual health lost. Because game thinks we took 10 million damage but we purified 4 million of it we take only 6 million actual and get orbs worth of 10m. So IsB doesn't have good, if any, synergy with GotO. Outside of IsB-Purify relations of course.

But dropping IsB is rarely the right option as you said.

True, my point was not that ISB and GotOx have a real synergy, but that you spawn them at half as much up-front damage taken when ISB is up rather than when it's down.

[Xequecal]

In M+, kiting the pull with coursing river is pretty much always going to be better than trying to game OD. The exception would be BRH where there's no room to kite but I'd suggest not running that dungeon at all.

[AetherMcLoud]

I agree with AetherMcLoud here: Gaming OD is a bad idea. It only really works in content that is non-threatening to you anyway. It's purpose is to buy a little more time when shit hits the fan.

Gift of the Mists has nothing to do with RNG btw. Whenever you gain progress towards your next GotO orb spawn, that progress is increased by x%. x = 0 if you are at full health and it increases linearly to x = 60 when you're dead (so you'll effectively never get the full 60% gain). Suppose you take damage equal to 10% of your maximum HP (before Stagger) and that hit drops you to 50% of your health. Without GotM, you'll gain those 10% as progress toward your next GotO orb. With GotM, you'll gain 13% orb progress instead. Since you dropped to 50% (I think GotM uses your health level AFTER the damage has been subtracted), you gain 30% additional progress due to GotM since you're half way to being dead and getting the full 60%. 30% of those 10% of your max. health is another 3% of your max. health, so you gain orb progress equal to 13% of your max. health instead of just 10%.

TL;DR: Gift of the Mists is not random, it provides a deterministic increase in orb spawns based on how low your health level is on average. You get up to 60% more orbs over the duration of a fight depending how close to death you are on average.

It's not a random proc but since it's tied to your current health level when taking a hit it does add a "random" amount to the orb trigger. Which gets higher the lower your health, but since Black Ox Brew is on that talent row GotM is basically moot for progression anyway.

[ScharfAsATack]

Think we'll get some abilities (maybe even some utility) un-pruned for 7.1.5?

[redfella]

Kinda wishing for Dizzying Haze back as baseline, so when playing without Dave and RJW it wouldn't be so awkward to pull / catch stragglers.

[ngocngoc]

When you have blackout combo and you combo it with breathe of fire, it says reduces damage on target. Is it reducing the targets damage for the duration of the burning debuff?

[Blur4stuff]

would absolutely love to have dizzying back or even sck

[AetherMcLoud]

When you have blackout combo and you combo it with breathe of fire, it says reduces damage on target. Is it reducing the targets damage for the duration of the burning debuff?

BoC reduces the cooldown of BoF. And BoF leaves a dot on targets that you keg smashed. And there's an artifact trait that makes mobs suffering from that dot do less damage (to you).

- - - Updated - - -

would absolutely love to have dizzying back or even sck

RJW should simply be baseline IMHO. They said something like "Talents that 98% of players take should probably be baseline (for 7.1.5 / 7.2)". I guess from the little Brewmasters that tank dungeons, close to 98% take RJW. Maybe there's hope.

Anyway, my main problem with RJW as a talent is that I feel the need to use it on cooldown to get the max benefit from the talent choice, instead of simply using it as a low cooldown add pickup tool which it's probably intended for. And RJW on CD doesn't play smoothly with BoC.

If RJW was baseline it could do less damage and be used simply for add pickup or when there's nothing else to press.

[keqe]

If RJW came back baseline, it should be a partial TP replacement like in MoP/WoD. Cost 25 energy and gain 1s off from brews if it hits 3 or more targets. Probably make traits like face palm and set bonus affect it too so the link stays the same. That way you won't have to use it on single and partially replaces TP on AoE.

Blackout Combo for it could be that it doubled its duration and brew reduce.

[Slatch]

BoC just needs to be made baseline. Brew CD adjusted to compensate, and a new talent added in it's place. Would then make for an interesting tier to choose from.

[Deleted]

- - - Updated - - -



RJW should simply be baseline IMHO. They said something like "Talents that 98% of players take should probably be baseline (for 7.1.5 / 7.2)". I guess from the little Brewmasters that tank dungeons, close to 98% take RJW. Maybe there's hope.

Anyway, my main problem with RJW as a talent is that I feel the need to use it on cooldown to get the max benefit from the talent choice, instead of simply using it as a low cooldown add pickup tool which it's probably intended for. And RJW on CD doesn't play smoothly with BoC.

If RJW was baseline it could do less damage and be used simply for add pickup or when there's nothing else to press.

Maybe its just me, but none of the BrMs I know run RJW in M+... Unless RJW gets a significant buff to make it worth the GCD (or SD damage gets nerfed) I can't ever see myself taking RJW.

[Will]

RJW should simply be baseline IMHO. They said something like "Talents that 98% of players take should probably be baseline (for 7.1.5 / 7.2)". I guess from the little Brewmasters that tank dungeons, close to 98% take RJW. Maybe there's hope.

Where did you get that 98% from? I don't use RJW for dungeons either, and from other BrM's ive seen most take Special Delivery too. Particularly when you're against the clock in +

- - - Updated - - -

How is everyone speccing for Mythic+ right now? I recently decided to switch back to my BrM instead of my Druid because I find it more fun. I started pugging some mythics to gear up (842 currently) and feel like I'm having a more difficult time than I expected with ISB uptime. I'm running Chi Burst, BoB, Leg Sweep, Elixer, RJW, and BoC. I know my stats are all over the place because of my low ilvl but working on building up my haste and mastery.

I feel like my ISB is falling off even using BoB on CD and only Purifying above 60%. I'm using BoC almost elusively on Keg Smash.

Any general tips are more than welcome, I know its hard to give much more than that without seeing logs or anything. Thanks in advance!

Don't just purify automatically when you reach high stagger. You have to purify intelligently. In other words, purify when the damage intake exceeds safe manageable levels by your healer. For instance, you could have a full stagger bar (100%) but if the rest of your group is topped off and chill, there's no reason why your healer - aside from being AFK or just shit - shouldn't be able to keep you healed, so it's perfectly viable to just let the stagger tick down and save the brew charge for later. If, on the other hand shit's hit the fan and your healer is working overtime to keep others alive, then yeah go ahead and purify sooner rather than later.

- - - Updated - - -

I got the warforged neck Choker of Barbed Reins from Attumen (item=142174/choker-of-barbed-reins - sorry cant put link)

+1,147 Stamina
+1,123 Critical Strike
+748 Mastery
Equip: Taking damage has a chance to instantly deal 14250 to 15750 Physical damage to nearby enemies.


And oh boy the damages ! On Elerethe and Ursoc Mythic it did 6% of my DPS. On a triple pack in Karazhan it did 24% of my damages ! (2nd source, just behind Keg smash).

After some quick testing it seems to have a chance to proc on the initial hit (as intended) but also on every stagger tick, so BRM have way more proc with this neck than everyone else.

It's a nice trinket for AoE packs, but ultimately I switched back to my Haste necklace for the majority of content. The biggest problem with that choker is the equip effect doesn't scale with War/Titanforged so it will become rapidly obsolete in future tiers. Regardless as it stands right now it's particularly strong in certain mass pulls as you rightly pointed out!

[Deleted]

For brewmaster relics. ilvl or traits. and what traits?

3 weapon ilvl 1% hp trait vs potent Kick trait.

[Deleted]

It seem's that we got an other 10% DMG Nerf on Keg Smash without annoucement.
During Heroic Max. DMG from KS is lowered by 50k. 500 > 450k max Hit.

Annoying...