[Legion] Terryn's guide to Affliction Warlock

[GameFX]

That 'good window' is basically never going to happen unless you have a pair of amazing trinkets and you're using Soul Harvest. If you're specced Contagion, then you're going to want to space out your UAs anyway to maximise the debuff up time. Further, CH only affects the next UA, so again, that's also encouraging you to space them out. Fatal Echoes, same. There's a lot here that's working against the idea of spamming UA like Chaos Bolts in a burn phase.

That's kinda my point - There is no 'right' time to cast it with the exception of course being at 5 soul shards & I'm speaking with Non-Contagion playstle...mostly Absolute Corruption. If you read CryptRot's guide, Icy-Vein's guide, and Terryn's guide. They just say cast it when you have Reap Souls + trinket proc + Wrath of Consumption etc...Well what happens when you don't have any of those up save for Reap Souls (which ideally should be kept up as much as possible) Do you:

A) Fire off as many UA's as you can
B) Wait for them to align and then dump all of your UA's into the target?
C) Fire off one UA just to keep from capping on 5 and continue to Drain Life of Drain Soul

There are so many instances that I can see working against you with this play style now that UA stacks on itself. Just one example I find is when you dump your shards because you got a good lineup of buffs...and now you're sitting on E - then by the RNGeezuz you get a 4-5 Compounding Horror that will either waste itself or you can only get one cast of UA off which seems like a waste considering UA's stacking mechanic and all the guides.

This play style seems it would be better suited if they gave us back Haunt as the shard spender along with buffing our DoTs and then keeping the UA stack mechanic so you're not constantly spamming so much Drain Life

Edit: I might just try running Contagion as it seems better IMO

[Jessicka]

That's kinda my point - There is no 'right' time to cast it with the exception of course being at 5 soul shards & I'm speaking with Non-Contagion playstle...mostly Absolute Corruption. If you read CryptRot's guide, Icy-Vein's guide, and Terryn's guide. They just say cast it when you have Reap Souls + trinket proc + Wrath of Consumption etc...Well what happens when you don't have any of those up save for Reap Souls (which ideally should be kept up as much as possible) Do you:

A) Fire off as many UA's as you can
B) Wait for them to align and then dump all of your UA's into the target?
C) Fire off one UA just to keep from capping on 5 and continue to Drain Life of Drain Soul

There are so many instances that I can see working against you with this play style now that UA stacks on itself. Just one example I find is when you dump your shards because you got a good lineup of buffs...and now you're sitting on E - then by the RNGeezuz you get a 4-5 Compounding Horror that will either waste itself or you can only get one cast of UA off which seems like a waste considering UA's stacking mechanic and all the guides.

This play style seems it would be better suited if they gave us back Haunt as the shard spender along with buffing our DoTs and then keeping the UA stack mechanic so you're not constantly spamming so much Drain Life

Edit: I might just try running Contagion as it seems better IMO

You're misunderstanding how Compounding Horror works, it only applies to the NEXT Unstable Affliction, and is then spent. It's not a timed buff under which to apply as many UAs as you can.

The point of UA stacking is mostly so you don't lose damage if you're swamped in Shards and want to spam it everywhere (and in particular if you reapply as Fatal Echoes decides it's going to automatically reapply at the same time); it's not to make it into a nuke spec. Think of it more like the protection from Ignite munching that used to be a problem for Fire Mages, its just there to prevent damage loss; it can't really be 'exploited' very well, and isn't intended to be unless you have some very good temporary +damage buffs (though not Haste ones).

[GameFX]

You're misunderstanding how Compounding Horror works, it only applies to the NEXT Unstable Affliction, and is then spent. It's not a timed buff under which to apply as many UAs as you can.

The point of UA stacking is mostly so you don't lose damage if you're swamped in Shards and want to spam it everywhere (and in particular if you reapply as Fatal Echoes decides it's going to automatically reapply at the same time); it's not to make it into a nuke spec. Think of it more like the protection from Ignite munching that used to be a problem for Fire Mages, its just there to prevent damage loss; it can't really be 'exploited' very well, and isn't intended to be unless you have some very good temporary +damage buffs (though not Haste ones).

I'm not misunderstanding how Compounding Horror works - But what you just said makes sense now.

[Deleted]

can you confirm that atm stats prio is Mastery > int > Haste . Because in some other places it says its Haste > Mastery ?

[Deleted]

can you confirm that atm stats prio is Mastery > int > Haste . Because in some other places it says its Haste > Mastery ?

i made lot of test with target dummy. if u build up for haste bigest part of ur damage will come from agony, if u build up to mastery->unstable afliction. but because the agony is relative long dot and if u have tormented soul in ur staff when u apply will damage much better in whole uptime (even ur staff is depletted) and the haste have no effect on ua. thats why better choice to get many haste as u can.

[Dwill]

i made lot of test with target dummy. if u build up for haste bigest part of ur damage will come from agony, if u build up to mastery->unstable afliction. but because the agony is relative long dot and if u have tormented soul in ur staff when u apply will damage much better in whole uptime (even ur staff is depletted) and the haste have no effect on ua. thats why better choice to get many haste as u can.

Again, you're incorrect.

Unstable Affliction fully benefits from haste as it reduce the time necessary until inflicting the entirety its entire damage and it's a very easy thing to test (look at duration, unequip/equip Haste item, see how the duration changed). How you missed that in all your (supposed) dummy tests AND the fact that it is very noticeable during Bloodlust/Heroism is beyond me. Also in case you were unaware, Agony benefits from Mastery thus it hits harder so whenever it reaches its full stack, it will consistently harder than a full haste one AND in multi-target situations(e.g. Dragons of Nightmare), shards are not an issue which means you can easily swim in shards thus Mastery trumping Haste even more.

Stats weights are: Mastery > Intellect > Haste > Critical Hit > Versatility

Feel free to prove me wrong with something other than "I did dummy tests"

[Deleted]

Again, you're incorrect.

Unstable Affliction fully benefits from haste as it reduce the time necessary until inflicting the entirety its entire damage and it's a very easy thing to test (look at duration, unequip/equip Haste item, see how the duration changed). How you missed that in all your (supposed) dummy tests AND the fact that it is very noticeable during Bloodlust/Heroism is beyond me. Also in case you were unaware, Agony benefits from Mastery thus it hits harder so whenever it reaches its full stack, it will consistently harder than a full haste one AND in multi-target situations(e.g. Dragons of Nightmare), shards are not an issue which means you can easily swim in shards thus Mastery trumping Haste even more.

Stats weights are: Mastery > Intellect > Haste > Critical Hit > Versatility

Feel free to prove me wrong with something other than "I did dummy tests"

From a total dps point of view, UA doesn't benefit from haste as we don't get more ticks. However we do get more shards from agony so we cast more UA's though with lower dmg if we went full haste instead of mastery.

[Deleted]

Again, you're incorrect.

Unstable Affliction fully benefits from haste as it reduce the time necessary until inflicting the entirety its entire damage and it's a very easy thing to test (look at duration, unequip/equip Haste item, see how the duration changed). How you missed that in all your (supposed) dummy tests AND the fact that it is very noticeable during Bloodlust/Heroism is beyond me. Also in case you were unaware, Agony benefits from Mastery thus it hits harder so whenever it reaches its full stack, it will consistently harder than a full haste one AND in multi-target situations(e.g. Dragons of Nightmare), shards are not an issue which means you can easily swim in shards thus Mastery trumping Haste even more.

Stats weights are: Mastery > Intellect > Haste > Critical Hit > Versatility

Feel free to prove me wrong with something other than "I did dummy tests"

i recomend u read the first page of this topic.

[Dwill]

From a total dps point of view, UA doesn't benefit from haste as we don't get more ticks. However we do get more shards from agony so we cast more UA's though with lower dmg if we went full haste instead of mastery.

We don't get additional ticks but the damage is front loaded in a shorter duration which means that it becomes better on short-lived adds and multi-targets fights where you're fed more shards via Agony therefore allowing more UA being cast in a shorter time window.

i recomend u read the first page of this topic.

You mean the original post which clearly states this ?

which contradicts your statement of :

thats why better choice to get many haste as u can.

To that, I'll just tell you:

Feel free to prove me wrong with something other than "I did dummy tests"

[Deleted]

No one seems able to answer exactly how the Unstable Affliction changes impact PVE. I dipped my toes into the PTR, and yes, each Unstable Affliction showed as a separate debuff on the target

But I couldn;t work out whether the stack limit was applying or if it did how it worked.

There are many, many times I get to cast UA more than five times in a row, it is actually quite easy if you have multiple Agonies running, or if you just get lucky, particularly if you're saving shards to do a dump during a burn phase (expendinf only to stop capping shards)

Is the limit PVP only, or do they really want us to not only watch shard capping but also UA capping? That would be ridiculous, but nothing suprise sme after seeing Contagion and Compounding Horror nerfed.

When I tried it on PTR. certainly nothing stopped me from casting six, seve, eight or more UA's in a row, what happens, are they wasted or what?

[Deleted]

No one seems able to answer exactly how the Unstable Affliction changes impact PVE. I dipped my toes into the PTR, and yes, each Unstable Affliction showed as a separate debuff on the target

But I couldn;t work out whether the stack limit was applying or if it did how it worked.

There are many, many times I get to cast UA more than five times in a row, it is actually quite easy if you have multiple Agonies running, or if you just get lucky, particularly if you're saving shards to do a dump during a burn phase (expendinf only to stop capping shards)

Is the limit PVP only, or do they really want us to not only watch shard capping but also UA capping? That would be ridiculous, but nothing suprise sme after seeing Contagion and Compounding Horror nerfed.

When I tried it on PTR. certainly nothing stopped me from casting six, seve, eight or more UA's in a row, what happens, are they wasted or what?

I haven't tested it on ptr myself but UA has a base cast time of 1.5s and duration of 8s, so even if you chain cast with nothing in between the first UA would be nearly dropping off as you applied the 6th anyway. The change was specifically targetted at the rot and decay honor talent, I'm not sure there's a pve scenario where its possible to get more than 5 UAs up on a target.

[Deleted]

I was thinking that it might be done if you get extremely high levels of haste, or during a heroism or a haste buff such as that obtainable in the Arcway boss

Also, it's a pity that each one doesn;t seem to buff Shadow Bite...

[Jessicka]

I was thinking that it might be done if you get extremely high levels of haste, or during a heroism or a haste buff such as that obtainable in the Arcway boss

Also, it's a pity that each one doesn;t seem to buff Shadow Bite...

Wouldn't work either, UA doesn't extend with Haste. You'd basically just have to get super lucky with Fatal Echoes procs.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't work either, UA doesn't extend with Haste. You'd basically just have to get super lucky with Fatal Echoes procs.

I hadn't considered fatal echoes but I guess if fatal echoes now had a chance to reapply on each individual UA even while chaining casting it that would be a minor buff from current situation anyway.

[Deleted]

I hadn't considered fatal echoes but I guess if fatal echoes now had a chance to reapply on each individual UA even while chaining casting it that would be a minor buff from current situation anyway.

That is one of the benefits of 7.1, each UA is a separate DOT, with it's own snapshotted haste/mastery and Fatal Echoes.

[Deleted]

I bet it doesn;t increase Shadow Bite's damage as independent dots though

I see we have our "buffs" in. At this point I have drawn the conclusion the devs are just taking the piss. They actually want affliction to be this way.

You're really, really good at aoe. In Mythic +. So long as the wrong affixes aren't active.

That make sup for being awful at everything else. No, it really does. Your raid place is assured with healthstones. Honest, it is.

[Spunt]

That is one of the benefits of 7.1, each UA is a separate DOT, with it's own snapshotted haste/mastery and Fatal Echoes.

If only each of those UA contributed to Shadowbite separately.

[Zecarro]

That is one of the benefits of 7.1, each UA is a separate DOT, with it's own snapshotted haste/mastery and Fatal Echoes.

Which talent will be better on 7.1?
Absolute corruption?

I'm using
Absolute + Soul conduit. But with only 5 UA only on target i think Soul conduit will be a pain to manage how many UA did u cast during a fight
If u get some lucky with Heroism and souls shards, we always spend more than 5.

[Deleted]

As has been pointe dout above in answer to my question about that...the cast times mean that it is almost impossible to "stack" more than five in PVE because the first will have run before you can cast number 6

This change is simply to stop people using it in combination with Rot and Decay (which IMHO should be a PVE talent and is a great candidate to replace the godawful soul effigy)

As you say, the only real issue would appear to be if you save up shards for a burn phase combined with heroism, or some high haste buff

If only each UA was indeed fully separate, for example, buffing Shadowbite

[Terryn]

OK SORRY FOR SUCKING RECENTLY. Had a bunch of IRL things that finally calmed down this week.

Updated most of the guide for 7.1 Grabbing stuff for FAQ involving the new silly mechanics for 7.1.