Affliction Nurfed

[Lightning-]

If you mean the talent Demon Skin its 20% of maximum HP ... Which also means they do not have Death Coil or Howl of Terror .. Assume 600k for easy math that is 120k .. 120k takes x3 people? If you are talking about the talent Dark Pact which is 200k in PvP now consider that the Warlock did not take Portal which means the Warlock is like a cerement brick in water ..

Interrupt / Stun / Stun / Stun / Interrupt .. Warlock dead ..

Players who do not Interrupt lose ... what is wrong with that?

What you should be whining about is not the Warlock, rather the immortal healer behind him ..

The shield is not a flat 20% of his health, it restores 1% per second.
He has a huge absorb shield with his pet, 40% DR with unendig resolve.
They channel drain life and have healthstones.

Plus 20x stacked agony, 40sec corruption and dispelled UA's.

Way to strong, say whatever you want. Their defensive toolkit is way to good. I have a lock and it's ridiculous.

[Kagthul]

The shield is not a flat 20% of his health, it restores 1% per second.
He has a huge absorb shield with his pet, 40% DR with unendig resolve.
They channel drain life and have healthstones.

Plus 20x stacked agony, 40sec corruption and dispelled UA's.

Way to strong, say whatever you want. Their defensive toolkit is way to good. I have a lock and it's ridiculous.

And then you get stunned and explode instantly.

[Lightning-]

And then you get stunned and explode instantly.

Like everyone.

[Cempa]

The shield is not a flat 20% of his health, it restores 1% per second.
He has a huge absorb shield with his pet, 40% DR with unendig resolve.
They channel drain life and have healthstones.

Plus 20x stacked agony, 40sec corruption and dispelled UA's.

Way to strong, say whatever you want. Their defensive toolkit is way to good. I have a lock and it's ridiculous.

So calculate the theoretical HP of a Warlock:

650k HP base in PvP
120k talent that requires 20sec to reach full power but lets take it at full
200k Dark Pact
HS I think every one in the raid has that or a pot so don't add it
Unending Resolve a 3min CD with 8sec duration that reduces dmg for 40% and immune to interrupt and silence BUT you will get pulled/pushed/stunned/feared/sheep/hex whatever its CC time

So that's roughly 1mill Theoretical HP? We could add a couple hundred thousand if you assume the lock can free cast life drain which I doubt will happen!

As an example lest look at my Feral:

550k HP base
Ysera's Gift (3% heal every 5sec) so that's what 0.6% per sec?
Rejuv 2500 hp/s
Healing Touch 35k (every what 10sec?) assume another 2500 hp/s
Swiftmend 60k every 30sec so 2k per sec not counting crits so say another 2500 hp/sec
Regrowth 1.x cast 20k with a 8x% crit chance and a HoT for nothing really .. So another what? Not sure how to do this one say another 2500 hp/sec?

Add to all of that shapeform/speed/root/stun/push/sprint/another sprint say 20k hp/per sec? That's roughly another 1mill to 1.2mill HP ..

Now I'm not the best at math so please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm willing to bet if we do this for all builds (its not an exact science I don't have all the facts) we would come up with roughly similar theoretical HP values?

[hellar]

How is that possible? UA lasts what 6sec or 7sec? You mean 450k total? UA when dispelled does 120% so 5mill is obviously not intended one bit!

If you mean 450k per tic then than over 2mill which again is obviously not intended at all!

450k per tick. remember "Multiple casts accumulate increased damage." stack soul shards and dump UA's into one target and refresh it, its very strong. and the dispel damage is insane because of it.
I cant post the vod because only twitch subs can see it but the warlock was Maldiva

[Kagthul]

450k per tick. remember "Multiple casts accumulate increased damage." stack soul shards and dump UA's into one target and refresh it, its very strong. and the dispel damage is insane because of it.
I cant post the vod because only twitch subs can see it but the warlock was Maldiva

The way it actually works is each instance of UA is a separate stack. The tooltip is extremely misleading.

Basically, each UA you cast is its own thing. They all tick at the same time, but when each application runs out, each tick-stack is adjusted to the current number of applications. Even with 5 shards, you're looking at about a 100k tick (at 100, at 110, i have no idea) - my UA ticks for about 20k. And even then you're only going to get maybe 1 or 2 ticks that big before instances of UA start falling off.

If this was at 110.... 450k tick-stacks with all 5 instances of UA active might be possible, very briefly.

Considering that took ... 5+ globals of freecasting AND having a giant pile of shards ready to go to begin with...

so what?

in 5 globals, any melee could easily do your entire HP bar.

[sheggaro]

Like everyone.

Except everyone else has mobility and tons of cc.

The recent warlock nerfs were completely uncalled for, period.

Let's just say it how it is: Blizzard largely favors melees. When I log on my warrior and global people that's fine, when I global people on my Frost Mage and have tons of cc and mobility that's fine, but god forbid the class with literally no mobility or burst damage can take a beating.

Warlock players are second class citizens to Blizzard.

[Hexme]

So calculate the theoretical HP of a Warlock:

650k HP base in PvP
120k talent that requires 20sec to reach full power but lets take it at full
200k Dark Pact
HS I think every one in the raid has that or a pot so don't add it
Unending Resolve a 3min CD with 8sec duration that reduces dmg for 40% and immune to interrupt and silence BUT you will get pulled/pushed/stunned/feared/sheep/hex whatever its CC time

So that's roughly 1mill Theoretical HP? We could add a couple hundred thousand if you assume the lock can free cast life drain which I doubt will happen!

As an example lest look at my Feral:

550k HP base
Ysera's Gift (3% heal every 5sec) so that's what 0.6% per sec?
Rejuv 2500 hp/s
Healing Touch 35k (every what 10sec?) assume another 2500 hp/s
Swiftmend 60k every 30sec so 2k per sec not counting crits so say another 2500 hp/sec
Regrowth 1.x cast 20k with a 8x% crit chance and a HoT for nothing really .. So another what? Not sure how to do this one say another 2500 hp/sec?

Add to all of that shapeform/speed/root/stun/push/sprint/another sprint say 20k hp/per sec? That's roughly another 1mill to 1.2mill HP ..

Now I'm not the best at math so please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm willing to bet if we do this for all builds (its not an exact science I don't have all the facts) we would come up with roughly similar theoretical HP values?

First off, heals =/= shields. you have to go through shields before you actually get to the locks HP while heals heal for a -insert amount- over time (aka dot) or a specific amount per heal.

My DH's Chaos strike hits for around 30k normal give or take, when you heal that heal has to ether take time if it's a dot or if it's a direct heal it take most if all that dmg and "restores" your HP. Not to mention you can interupt direct heals while you can't interupt SL from locks, which there is a reason why Blizzard removed SL in the first place cause it was getting ridiculous and it gave locks insane healing by just dotting people.

A locks shield atm is probably the best defensive talent in the game atm cause it progressively restores the shield every second by 1%, your ferals YG only restores 3% health every 5 seconds, within that 5 seconds a locks shield could have been restored by 5% (simple math 5% > 3%), even the previous spiritual link for BMs was less op than locks shield atm.

[Charge me Doctor]

Every class that rely on having dot(s) on their target should have powerfull dispell protection. I am not playing warlock anymore and I find em almost imbosible to kill but their UA should take atleast 50% of the dispellers HP away and silence for 5 seconds..

Pre nerf it was almost a one-shot just fyi. I get it you don't play warlock so you don't know. And i guess you don't play a healer, so you don't know either, so, it's ok

- - - Updated - - -

dispelled UA's.

Oh yeah, that thing. When one dude decided to dispel fuckton stacks of UA while in -50% damage bubble and died, while warlock got full shield. Fun times

- - - Updated - - -

So calculate the theoretical HP of a Warlock:

650k HP base in PvP
120k talent that requires 20sec to reach full power but lets take it at full
200k Dark Pact
HS I think every one in the raid has that or a pot so don't add it
Unending Resolve a 3min CD with 8sec duration that reduces dmg for 40% and immune to interrupt and silence BUT you will get pulled/pushed/stunned/feared/sheep/hex whatever its CC time

So that's roughly 1mill Theoretical HP? We could add a couple hundred thousand if you assume the lock can free cast life drain which I doubt will happen!

As an example lest look at my Feral:

550k HP base
Ysera's Gift (3% heal every 5sec) so that's what 0.6% per sec?
Rejuv 2500 hp/s
Healing Touch 35k (every what 10sec?) assume another 2500 hp/s
Swiftmend 60k every 30sec so 2k per sec not counting crits so say another 2500 hp/sec
Regrowth 1.x cast 20k with a 8x% crit chance and a HoT for nothing really .. So another what? Not sure how to do this one say another 2500 hp/sec?

Add to all of that shapeform/speed/root/stun/push/sprint/another sprint say 20k hp/per sec? That's roughly another 1mill to 1.2mill HP ..

Now I'm not the best at math so please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm willing to bet if we do this for all builds (its not an exact science I don't have all the facts) we would come up with roughly similar theoretical HP values?

So, you are still butthurt over prepatch balance? Ok.

you get your 20 seconds to charge up a shield in instanced PvP.
No, you do count HS in. Not everyone has HS available and not everyone has potions available (and potions are significantly weaker iirc).
UR is a really good cooldown, i'll explain why below

The thing is with warlock that he gets health back (via shield (which is unmitigated way of getting health back) or healing (which is mitigated way of getting health back)), when you have a target fully dotted up you don't care about being interrupted, because you already heal a lot from DoTs and if you get interrupted while DoTs are rolling - you are fine. You should want to be interrupted while in safety of having full dots on a target/s. Problem starts when there are 2-3 healers, you fuck up your UAs, you get all your dots dispelled, stunned and interrupted to death. Yeah, that's crappy situation to be in, and it's not manageable. But you shouldn't be able to manage a situation against 2-3 healers and multiple DDs on your butt.

Why is damage reduction on warlock gives him much better mitigation than to others? Because you still heal for full effect from your DoTs/demon skin. You literally take 40% less damage, but heal for the same amount, making it significantly harder to kill you.

You "1mil of Theoretical HP" is laughable argument, because this "1mil of Theoretical HP" is infinite, because of all the healing and shielding available for warlock.

And your comparison with feral is so wrong, feral has to stop doing damage to heal up, be vulnerable while doing so (if feral gets interrupted mid cast he can't SS iirc), while warlock gets his health back passively, all the time. As long as there are no 10 prot warriors with shield wall up to mitigate his damage (which gives him health and shields back).

Warlocks have incredible survivability. On par with some protection specs. But that's their trade off for lack of mobility. But yes, they'll still get blown up in a chain CC by multiple people (duh), and if they fuck up their UA stacks (, for example, most common mistake i've seen is "spreading DoT protection" (4 UAs on 4 different people). Sure, your damage on BG chart will go up faster, but you won't kill anyone. Throw all your UAs on this poor warrior and make his druid buddy cry while getting hit for 2mil for dispelling this shit.

Seriously, people underestimate UA, as a healer you have to consider, if you want to pop up your defensive CD and dispel 4 stacks off your dying target (and pray to not die anyways) while also giving warlock his 20% health back, or, well, asking your mate to pop defensive CDs and pray that he doesn't die.

[Volitar]

If you mean the talent Demon Skin its 20% of maximum HP ... Which also means they do not have Death Coil or Howl of Terror .. Assume 600k for easy math that is 120k .. 120k takes x3 people? If you are talking about the talent Dark Pact which is 200k in PvP now consider that the Warlock did not take Portal which means the Warlock is like a cerement brick in water ..

Interrupt / Stun / Stun / Stun / Interrupt .. Warlock dead ..

Players who do not Interrupt lose ... what is wrong with that?

What you should be whining about is not the Warlock, rather the immortal healer behind him ..

Your fucking delusional lol

[BannedForViews]

Got to try Affliction on Beta last night. Did a bg, was suprised how squishy we actually felt when hit. The damage is actually really strong, I have no complaints there, but we do take a lot damage very easily. They went a bit overboard on that without giving us any more mobility.

[hellar]

The way it actually works is each instance of UA is a separate stack. The tooltip is extremely misleading.

Basically, each UA you cast is its own thing. They all tick at the same time, but when each application runs out, each tick-stack is adjusted to the current number of applications. Even with 5 shards, you're looking at about a 100k tick (at 100, at 110, i have no idea) - my UA ticks for about 20k. And even then you're only going to get maybe 1 or 2 ticks that big before instances of UA start falling off.

If this was at 110.... 450k tick-stacks with all 5 instances of UA active might be possible, very briefly.

Considering that took ... 5+ globals of freecasting AND having a giant pile of shards ready to go to begin with...

so what?

in 5 globals, any melee could easily do your entire HP bar.

man if only there were talents to extent the UA's duration.... and yes the 450k ticks were in beta. also you shouldn't compare burst damg to sustained damg.

[Charge me Doctor]

The way it actually works is each instance of UA is a separate stack. The tooltip is extremely misleading.

Basically, each UA you cast is its own thing. They all tick at the same time, but when each application runs out, each tick-stack is adjusted to the current number of applications. Even with 5 shards, you're looking at about a 100k tick (at 100, at 110, i have no idea) - my UA ticks for about 20k. And even then you're only going to get maybe 1 or 2 ticks that big before instances of UA start falling off.

If this was at 110.... 450k tick-stacks with all 5 instances of UA active might be possible, very briefly.

Considering that took ... 5+ globals of freecasting AND having a giant pile of shards ready to go to begin with...

so what?

in 5 globals, any melee could easily do your entire HP bar.

That's not the case. With how DRs work (and how interrupts have cooldowns) and that you keep generating SSs while being CCed (because of instant dots), situation where you can do 5 casts in a row without being interrupted are not that rare. And situations whenyou have 5 SSs available are not that rare either. And if you really want to - you can create this situation yourself by using your CDs

[Kagthul]

That's not the case. With how DRs work (and how interrupts have cooldowns) and that you keep generating SSs while being CCed (because of instant dots), situation where you can do 5 casts in a row without being interrupted are not that rare. And situations whenyou have 5 SSs available are not that rare either. And if you really want to - you can create this situation yourself by using your CDs

... yeah, i was going to post a response to this, but you're so divorced from reality im not going to bother.

I will go with:

5 globals of any melee on you and you're deleted.

Seems fine.

Enjoy ignore though.

- - - Updated - - -

man if only there were talents to extent the UA's duration.... and yes the 450k ticks were in beta. also you shouldn't compare burst damg to sustained damg.

you're right, burst damage is about 2000x better.

And yes, there's a talent to increase UA's duration.. by 4 whole seconds. a second tick at the top stack damage possible.... if you're running that and not the vastly superior Soul Siphon.

[Torais]

I don't think you are going to find much pity from any non-Warlock player.

Even now they are still topping BG damage charts (often by more than double the next non-Warlock player) while rivalling actual healers for healing done to themselves. I am honestly surprised it is lasting as long as it is. There is no way Legion RBGs/Arenas could go live like this.

[Ihazpaws]

Pre nerf it was almost a one-shot just fyi. I get it you don't play warlock so you don't know. And i guess you don't play a healer, so you don't know either, so, it's ok

Maybe read my post better next time. "...I don't play warlock anymore..." Stopped playing after new talents came online since I wanted change and decided to roll a melee finally. I did play also Holy priest, resto druid and MW monk alot in the past + after 7.0 released. I have always dispelled everything as soon as dots have appeared on the target. Because they don't do enough dmg or punish me more than with couple of sec silence or fear which won't affect the situation almost at all most of the time, since lock/sp dmg have dimished for a next few secs anyway (specially affli locks). I even use massdispell on a pack that has a multible UAs. Too low dmg that would cause any problems to healer.

As a lock I am used to that everyone dispells my UA so I avoid countering healers or multi do as much as I can. Won't bother to even do arenas without good team as a affli. It's gonna be just dispels till my team is dead. With good team the second dps ofc can cause enough problems and pressure towards healer that he cannot just keep dispelling my dots.

Anyway I've played affliction and healer classes alot past (11?) years.

[hellar]

... yeah, i was going to post a response to this, but you're so divorced from reality im not going to bother.

I will go with:

5 globals of any melee on you and you're deleted.

Seems fine.

Enjoy ignore though.

- - - Updated - - -



you're right, burst damage is about 2000x better.

And yes, there's a talent to increase UA's duration.. by 4 whole seconds. a second tick at the top stack damage possible.... if you're running that and not the vastly superior Soul Siphon.

lock comps are about rotting, not bursting. and your missing more talents. im not calling burst comps bad, they just arnt the same play style, thus not comparable. If you think burst comps are better, thats your opinion.
Many locks have won blizzcon and its not due to their burst.

Endless affliction + rot and decay (which on the beta increases the duration of UA) im literally watching a streamer stack a 20 second long UA ticking for 200k, and you can always stack more UA's on top of that and ramp it up even more. its not easy to get. but people arnt aware of this play style yet. ill post a vid of the 5mill dispel tom

[Cempa]

Its really hard comparing builds because I don't have all the data that would allow quantifying theoretical HP .. Things like 'Feral' has to stop damage to heal .. In any case many posters keep referring to 110 which I do not have .. On live today x5 UA would do 41k over 6.6 sec (706 ilvl inside BG /w 22% Haste) so that's about 200k Other x4 (DoT's add another 100k - 130k) on a 550k - 650k player .. Less with mitigation ..

[Deleted]

I don't think you are going to find much pity from any non-Warlock player.

Even now they are still topping BG damage charts (often by more than double the next non-Warlock player) while rivalling actual healers for healing done to themselves. I am honestly surprised it is lasting as long as it is. There is no way Legion RBGs/Arenas could go live like this.

BG's are meaningless. That damage is mostly padding by spamming dots on everything that moves. No different to druids dumping Starfall and topping meters.

The change to UA was inevitable, too many melees crying to Blizzard about not being able to continue their accustomed playstyle, which is stunlocking and killing a cloth caster in two globals, warlocks have a chance to dump multiple UA's which people were still dispelling because they were used to being able to dispell with damage of no consequence

Which is now back to where it was, no one gives a shit about dispelling DOTs any more, so we are back to locks spends time and all their shards on doting up and it's lol-vanish back to full health and kick/sap/stun/kick/you're dead

The crying is coming from players who are used to a warlock being completely helpless with a melee on them. Now the melee have to work slightly, because a warlock has a big health pool and shields and can actually hurt people - so melee have to think about using their stuns and lockouts, rather than mashing a few "I win" keys

The big joke is that anyone dispelling a big UA "stack" (I'm aware they don;t, but lets call it that) deserves to get hurt but they nerf it.

Meanwhile we get the usual bullshit about "being aware" of how a team of demon hunters can literally fly a flag across the map before their opponents get out of the doors, which translates as "we know it's unfair but don't give a shit because DH's are the new teacher's pet for this expac like Death Knights were when they launched"

[Cempa]

BG's are meaningless. That damage is mostly padding by spamming dots on everything that moves. No different to druids dumping Starfall and topping meters.

The change to UA was inevitable, too many melees crying to Blizzard about not being able to continue their accustomed playstyle, which is stunlocking and killing a cloth caster in two globals, warlocks have a chance to dump multiple UA's which people were still dispelling because they were used to being able to dispell with damage of no consequence

Which is now back to where it was, no one gives a shit about dispelling DOTs any more, so we are back to locks spends time and all their shards on doting up and it's lol-vanish back to full health and kick/sap/stun/kick/you're dead

The crying is coming from players who are used to a warlock being completely helpless with a melee on them. Now the melee have to work slightly, because a warlock has a big health pool and shields and can actually hurt people - so melee have to think about using their stuns and lockouts, rather than mashing a few "I win" keys

The big joke is that anyone dispelling a big UA "stack" (I'm aware they don;t, but lets call it that) deserves to get hurt but they nerf it.

Meanwhile we get the usual bullshit about "being aware" of how a team of demon hunters can literally fly a flag across the map before their opponents get out of the doors, which translates as "we know it's unfair but don't give a shit because DH's are the new teacher's pet for this expac like Death Knights were when they launched"

On some maps I glide+rush+glide+rush+glide covering 1/2 to 3/4 of the map in less than x10 globals .. With AE 5sec stun I'm as fast as a person on a 100% mount across a map ..

As for Warlock ANY melee who interrupts wins .. ANY melee I successfully duke loses .. Now that is not always the case because some melee really hurt and can self heal .. In any case I think your POV is closer to reality since as melee against a lock I need to think about how to shut him down .. against any other caster I just mongo tunnel spamming whatever is not on CD ,,,