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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by zumba View Post
    single target demo according to sims as of today ,demo is strongest single target of all ranged classes.
    Lawl you know for dam sure warlocks will never top mages

  2. #22
    These are the sims people are tossing around.
    http://i.imgur.com/nBIQ85e.png
    This is purely single target with absolutely no movement played with minimal to no errors in playstyle.
    Not a single fight in EN or NH is a patchwerk, so these sims are for who can hit a target dummy the hardest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skrubba View Post
    I thought Seed of Corruption with Sow the Seeds and Phantom Singularity was pretty powerful on Mythic+ trash, is this wrong?
    Seed of Corruption only pops from our damage so you'd have to pump enough damage into it before the add died, but theoretically if you could do that one detonation would trigger the rest.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Draxtor View Post
    These are the sims people are tossing around.
    http://i.imgur.com/nBIQ85e.png
    This is purely single target with absolutely no movement played with minimal to no errors in playstyle.
    Not a single fight in EN or NH is a patchwerk, so these sims are for who can hit a target dummy the hardest.
    Hasn't this been the case with sims for...ever? I mean, you're always talking about theoretical dps with sims. Nevertheless, the community will latch onto these numbers and hold them as gospel.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Styxz View Post
    Hasn't this been the case with sims for...ever? I mean, you're always talking about theoretical dps with sims. Nevertheless, the community will latch onto these numbers and hold them as gospel.
    You are correct. What live is like is on the left, sims are on the right:
    -- mod snip --
    Last edited by Woz; 2016-08-25 at 02:15 AM.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Lisa Frank Succubus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxtor View Post
    These are the sims people are tossing around.
    http://i.imgur.com/nBIQ85e.png
    This is purely single target with absolutely no movement played with minimal to no errors in playstyle.
    Not a single fight in EN or NH is a patchwerk, so these sims are for who can hit a target dummy the hardest.


    Seed of Corruption only pops from our damage so you'd have to pump enough damage into it before the add died, but theoretically if you could do that one detonation would trigger the rest.
    Time to nerf demo.

    Seriously though, I think I've seen 3 different sims today on different forums, first one with that even has demo on it.


    Draxtor, your link in the post above me doesn't work for some reason.

  6. #26
    Demo is great as long as you don't move... ever.

    With the number of GTFO patches and the number of actual forced movement abilities (knock backs\aways) you will miss your windows to do the "great" damage of Demo and you will do slightly more than the tank having to move punishes Demonology like no other spec ever. Even hard casting in Vanilla punished you less because while you did nothing at all while moving when you stopped you didn't have a 15-20 second ramp up until you could do your "good" damage a 15-20 second ramp that is often broken by needing to move again.
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

  7. #27
    -- mod snip -- is the link that got fixed. Live on the left, sims on the right.

    Infracted - Woz
    Last edited by Woz; 2016-08-25 at 02:14 AM.

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Draxtor View Post
    IIRC Afflic is really only good AoE after getting the golden trait that causes things to explode when you kill the correct? Because other than that for AoE we only have Phantom Singularity on a decent CD and Seed of Corruption which is terrible.
    Given that Soul Flame will probably be the first golden trait you should pick, I don't see the problem. Also, SoC is hilariously good when talented and combined with PS. Affliction is a monster when sustained AoE matters (ie. high mythic+ levels). It also is the only spec we have with an interrupt, assuming you don't go for GoSac.
    Last edited by mmocac9ee8a52f; 2016-08-25 at 08:48 AM.

  9. #29
    There's no patchwerk fights ingame, go destro of fire mage. I will keep maining warlock but mage will be my alt and keep it up to date with artifact traits and gear.
    If nothing happens before raids launch regarding balance, I will most likely switch to mage to perform better in raids, I dont want to be middle of the pack and god forbid behind tanks in dps.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Lisa Frank Succubus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    There's no patchwerk fights ingame, go destro of fire mage. I will keep maining warlock but mage will be my alt and keep it up to date with artifact traits and gear.
    If nothing happens before raids launch regarding balance, I will most likely switch to mage to perform better in raids, I dont want to be middle of the pack and god forbid behind tanks in dps.
    Yeah, I think I'm in this camp, will probably be doing this because I just can't put my warlock up but it'll probably be like cataclysm where I just had to switch to mage for awhile because warlock just wasn't rewarding for me. I'm thankful fire is at least the go to mage spec right now since I actually like fire.
    Last edited by Lisa Frank Succubus; 2016-08-25 at 09:03 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by FertsBlert View Post
    Demo is great as long as you don't move... ever.

    With the number of GTFO patches and the number of actual forced movement abilities (knock backs\aways) you will miss your windows to do the "great" damage of Demo and you will do slightly more than the tank having to move punishes Demonology like no other spec ever. Even hard casting in Vanilla punished you less because while you did nothing at all while moving when you stopped you didn't have a 15-20 second ramp up until you could do your "good" damage a 15-20 second ramp that is often broken by needing to move again.
    Not true, demonology when planned properly can move around a lot while their demons are doing their thing. You can drop imps and dogs with proper planning to do your damage while you manuever. You can also servitude at that time to maintain your main pet damage. Of course this will require knowledge of the fight mechanics and a bit of pre-planning but that is what seperates the good from the great in any class, minimizing the disadvantages of a class.

  12. #32
    Is the lock affliction artifact really that fucking horrible? It depends on things to die for it to behave good? What a fucking joke

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Is the lock affliction artifact really that fucking horrible? It depends on things to die for it to behave good? What a fucking joke
    Did you read Terryn's guide? There's more to it than that. Let me help you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryn View Post
    This guide will always be a work in progress as things change quite often! Discussion is always encouraged.


    [/CENTER]

    Now for the big announcement of legion, the Artifact. The Affliction artifact is Ulthalesh, the Deadwind Harvester and it looks pretty sick. The artifact revolves around Souls periodically spawning from your damaging spells, and your ability to consume them to amplify the artifact’s passive and provide a damage boost, increasing in duration based on your souls consumed. There’s no cooldown to this, it’s only limited by your number of souls. The artifact also comes with cool things, GemsRelics and a full blown Time SinkTalent System built in! The relics increase the artifact’s item level, and provide a level in a specific Trait for the artifact.
    The Deadwind Harvester's primary ability is called Reap Souls, and is the core around how this spec is played. Periodically, souls will escape from the harvester, allowing you to consume them to increase your power and amplify the power of the Deadwind Harvester during the duration of Reap Souls.


    Here’s a preview of the really important traits for Ulthalesh, the Deadwind Harvester. I will also include info as to what the amplification effect is.
    • Compounding Horror: Hands down the most important trait in the arsenal of the affliction weapon. Should give you an average of a 20% damage increase on UA. On top of that, the bonus is multiplicative, which means this will stack hard with trinket procs, damage amplifiers, etc. Amplification: doubles the chaince to gain stacks of Compound Horror to 20%.
    • Perdition: increases Crit scaling and provides bonus damage, this is a strong bonus even at lower crit levels especially since it applies to the vast majority of our damage outside aoe. Amplification: doubles this to 20%
    • Wrath of Consumption: while this trait is hit and miss, if you have lots of adds dying, this can really stack up quick. This will trigger when any add you have threat on dies. Any fight where you’re going to have adds dying is a fight that the Affliction Lock is going to shine very nicely, especially with single target boss fight. Amplification: Doubles the damage provided by the effect
    • Soul Flame: This is another gold tier trait, and this trait is the hidden sleeper of this tier. This deals damage when an add dies that you have any amount of threat on, and it’s quite a bit of damage. Super strong in dungeons and raids with adds (Scorpion is a huge ringer) Amplification: Doubles the damage dealt
    • Harvester of Souls: This gives you damage equal to about 2 extra ticks of corruption over the duration, or 2 extra ticks every 7 ticks with absolute corruption. Cool trait, but not super exciting, definitely the weakest of the gold traits. Amplification: Doubles the proc rate, raising it to 4 extra ticks per 7 ticks
    • Fatal Echoes: Kind of cool, but it’s very low RNG so it’s not even remotely reliable until you're in a place you’re able to spam UA on things. It can only proc once when an entire UA effect expires, not per UA cast. Amplification: Proc Rate is doubled to 12%
    Last edited by HeavenDenies; 2016-08-25 at 02:14 PM.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Not true, demonology when planned properly can move around a lot while their demons are doing their thing. You can drop imps and dogs with proper planning to do your damage while you manuever. You can also servitude at that time to maintain your main pet damage. Of course this will require knowledge of the fight mechanics and a bit of pre-planning but that is what seperates the good from the great in any class, minimizing the disadvantages of a class.
    This is complete nonsense. The thing with Demonology being immobile is not about them not dealing any damage on the move. It's about literally every spell that is not a cooldown having a cast time, meaning that if you're moving you're not generating or spending resources efficiently, leading to a damage loss. There's precisely nothing good planning can do against that. Good planning is what gives Destro reasonable mobility since you can keep build up charges of your instant casts instead of spamming them on cooldown.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Not true, demonology when planned properly can move around a lot while their demons are doing their thing. You can drop imps and dogs with proper planning to do your damage while you manuever. You can also servitude at that time to maintain your main pet damage. Of course this will require knowledge of the fight mechanics and a bit of pre-planning but that is what seperates the good from the great in any class, minimizing the disadvantages of a class.
    My Thal'kiels Consumption NOW will cause XXXXXXX damage my Thal'kiels Consumption in 2 seconds will cause XX damage.... and it will be another 15-20 seconds before I can set that up again.

    And if you have Implosion it's even worse, you have another small window to hit to maximise the use of the idiotic imps.
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Not true, demonology when planned properly can move around a lot while their demons are doing their thing. You can drop imps and dogs with proper planning to do your damage while you manuever. You can also servitude at that time to maintain your main pet damage. Of course this will require knowledge of the fight mechanics and a bit of pre-planning but that is what seperates the good from the great in any class, minimizing the disadvantages of a class.
    You can't plan when RNG flames spawn on you
    Last edited by xpose; 2016-08-25 at 03:40 PM.

  17. #37
    As of a couple days ago, Gahddo said that he still had a lot of work to do on the sims for Demonology. It's shaping up to be the best ST spec, but it sounds like there aren't many of those in the first tier. There's also several weeks before the raid tier opens up, plus Blizzard will likely make some changes after the first week or so of raiding based on what they're seeing. So I think anything regarding what the 'best' spec is for raiding needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

    That being said, from what I've heard so far Destro/Demo are shaping up as the best for raiding - in part because EN doesn't have many Affliction friendly fights. Affliction is shaping up as good for high level Mythic+ dungeons due to its AoE.

    Other thing to keep in mind is that the way Artifact Power is accumulated, you're better off keeping 2 or 3 specs strong. Once you get to around level 20 in an Artifact, it costs more AP to go from 20 to 21 than it does to get a 2nd spec up to 13 or 14. I think I read it takes more AP to go 23/0/0 than it does to go 21/16/16.

    One idea I see floating around is to go 16/16/16 for the first few weeks, and then invest remaining AP once you have a better feel for where they stand after additional balancing and how specs do on specific fights.
    Last edited by Jaman; 2016-08-25 at 03:47 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by FertsBlert View Post
    My Thal'kiels Consumption NOW will cause XXXXXXX damage my Thal'kiels Consumption in 2 seconds will cause XX damage.... and it will be another 15-20 seconds before I can set that up again.

    And if you have Implosion it's even worse, you have another small window to hit to maximise the use of the idiotic imps.
    Thal'kiel's Consumption calculates its damage on the beginning of the cast, not on the end.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 101blubb View Post
    This is complete nonsense. The thing with Demonology being immobile is not about them not dealing any damage on the move. It's about literally every spell that is not a cooldown having a cast time, meaning that if you're moving you're not generating or spending resources efficiently, leading to a damage loss. There's precisely nothing good planning can do against that. Good planning is what gives Destro reasonable mobility since you can keep build up charges of your instant casts instead of spamming them on cooldown.
    You can always Life Tap on the move, it's the same thing as it was ever - Life Tap on the move and you can gap quite a bit of movement without major DPS loss.


    Basically, smart play and a bit of understanding how the spec works can do a lot of good. I think people underestimate Demo quite a bit.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Basically, smart play and a bit of understanding how the spec works can do a lot of good. I think people underestimate Demo quite a bit.
    I have not spent a lot of time on the BETA but since the pre-patch hit... There are a handful of fights where I look forward to group movement while playing demo so I CAN Life Tap effectively without losing dps due to movement.

    Obviously, fight times are skewed and the pace is different. Nonetheless, I can see where players can plan predetermined movement as an opportunity for Life Tap usage.

    I do believe it is underestimated as well, at least from my experience.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Thal'kiel's Consumption calculates its damage on the beginning of the cast, not on the end.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You can always Life Tap on the move, it's the same thing as it was ever - Life Tap on the move and you can gap quite a bit of movement without major DPS loss.


    Basically, smart play and a bit of understanding how the spec works can do a lot of good. I think people underestimate Demo quite a bit.
    Fine, the Thel'kiel's that I start to cast NOW will do XXXXXXXX damage the one I start to cast in 2 seconds after I move away from the unavoidable GTFO puddle\land from this unavoidable knock back\away will do XX damage because my doggies and my impsys will have fucked off.

    It will take at least 15-20 seconds before I have that many doggies and impsys again so my Thal'kiels will be useless and I will miss this window to cast it effectively.

    Oh look it's all set up again... oh look I have to fucking MOVE again.
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

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