Why the gear still plays role in pvp?

[MasterHamster]

That is flawed reasoning.

Effort in pve should pay off in pve, but not vice versa

Effort in pvp should pay off in pvp, but not vice versa.

That is how it worked in Wod and I don't see why this had to change again.

Does this mean that PvP gear should be unusable in PvE instances?
Sounds unfair otherwise if high end effort in PvE doesn't have any effect in PvP, but PvP gear that naturally has an ilvl comparable to PvE gear is useful outside of PvP. High-end raiders have their trinkets and tier bonuses, and pvpers has pvp trinkets/pvp set bonuses.

See, you can't just exclude one side of the issue and pretend it's fair. Imposing unnecessarily strict rules of where gear is "useful" and how it compares to gear of that "subset of activities" doesn't bode well for gameplay for the vast majority of players... I don't see a high end mythic raider occasionally jumping into a rated BG to wreck face, his PvP "gear disadvantage" offset by tier bonuses and trinkets, is much different than a top rated gladiator jumping into heroic or even mythic raid because his ilvl and survivability offsets the lack of PvE-oriented bonuses

[Deleted]

Does this mean that PvP gear should be unusable in PvE instances?
Sounds unfair otherwise if high end effort in PvE doesn't have any effect in PvP, but PvP gear that naturally has an ilvl comparable to PvE gear is useful outside of PvP. High-end raiders have their trinkets and tier bonuses, and pvpers has pvp trinkets/pvp set bonuses.

See, you can't just exclude one side of the issue and pretend it's fair. Imposing unnecessarily strict rules of where gear is "useful" and how it compares to gear of that "subset of activities" doesn't bode well for gameplay for the vast majority of players... I don't see a high end mythic raider occasionally jumping into a rated BG to wreck face, his PvP "gear disadvantage" offset by tier bonuses and trinkets, is much different than a top rated gladiator jumping into heroic or even mythic raid because his ilvl and survivability offsets the lack of PvE-oriented bonuses

I don't think we are even talking about the same issue anymore. What I meant was that in Wod the best gear for pvp came solely from doing pvp. This gear was always good starter gear for pve also, but far from being the best available. The best pve gear came from doing pve, as it should be, but this gear was not the best for pvp. This is the way it should work, but in legion the best gear for both comes from pve. I don't understand why anyone but raiders would think this is ok. Gear will always, always, be an issue regardless of what the gear difference is.

Nobody was being off-put from pvp because of gear cap since it was really, really fast and easy obtain yourself pvp gear and just go compete in arenas in Wod. Now in Legion they suddenly started thinking that people didn't do pvp because of gear gaps, even if it took only a few days or a week to get nearly full honor/qonquest set. Strangely enough they decided to "fix" this by inventing a system which is far more time consuming and added a far wider gap between geared and ungeared players for pvp (artifacts). Not only that, you are now badly locked to just one spec thanks to artifacts. In WoD all you needed were the off set items to play your other specs. Some classes didn't even need those.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why anyone but raiders would think this is ok. .

Pvp forums full of dragonslayers

Not only current pvp gearing is slower, but its also more rng than previously.

[Icehotshot]

BiS raiders having few % more pvp power doesnt make any sense.

What possibly is reason for this design decisiong? Catering to dragon slayers who wanna be special unicorns?

You can get the SAME ILVL gear from PVP as from PVE.....

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Same ilvl = same stats in pvp = no pve advantage.

[Deleted]

Well, I like the approach to the new pvp system. However people should be scaled down/up in ilvl and no one should have any benefits (except from the honor talents).
It should be about skills and not ilvl.
Also, I seriously doubt any mythic raider got time or pvp skills to top the arena rating (they invest much more time into raiding, which leaves less time to gain pvp skills.).
But...
I bet some pvp players that are into top rating will end up buying mythic Carrie to make sure they are "competitive" and hopefully gets a higher arena rating from it ...
Many guilds sells carries, but this might be something that will have a greater impact on pvp in Legion- much more than ever before.

[Eazy]

Max PvP vs max PvE is, what, 3% more powerful? If you are truely a good pvper, you will overcome that 3% with your leet skillz, amirite?

It seems like someone never played PvP.

I cannot count how many times I've ran away with 1-3% hp, also - how many times I killed someone with only 1-3% hp left.

But I think that's not the problem. The main problem is that Blizzard told us the Gear shouldn't matter in PvP, but it does.

We care that the source of it is not from PvP.

Imagine how unacceptable this would be in reverse: Mythic Raids dropping worse gear for doing Bosses than rated Battlegrounds.

And Speshil has also good point.

Because effort usually pays off in MMOs.

That's a really bad point. Having good PvP gear because someone is playing PvE? Nice, I want mythic gear to drop from rated BG/arena.

1% advantage in stats is negligible. And seriously, if someone have managed to spend time to do both PvE and PvP he should have an edge (even then, 1-5% stats is not what makes you lose or win the match. Please do tell me about every single game of yours is being neck-to-neck fight with enemy healer surviving at 1% before his miracle comes off CD)

You seriously didn't play much PvP I see.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I think they probably wanted it to play no role. Players complained. They said that getting no gear rewards felt rubbish, like they weren't able to progress their character at all in their preferred way of playing.

[Deleted]

So is the max pvp ilvl really 30 ilvl, below mythic raid gear? That seems unlikely, that's like normal mode gear.

[plato13]

Its pointless to argue with tryhard pvp player. Sad how much of an RPG aspect got lost in wow. Gearprogression is basicly the only thing you have left. MMORPGs never were about competetive PVP with equal gear. It is competetive in terms of everyone has the same chances on getting the gear. dont want to play pve? fine but its your loss. its not like i am not playing pvp but when it comes to me all gear should come from pve and non from pvp. wow devolving makes me sick. just look at prestige stuff. go play the game where this comes from. and leave mmos to the ppl who rly play mmos for what they are: lore, progressin, imersion and what else comes from RPGs. not for some instanced "pvp".

[Shraug]

Yes it should be, but it isn't. I'm saying this in neutrality, not trying to PvP-bash; but the game is literally not for PvPing. It's about getting gear and pwning dragons / newbs.

If the game was not for PvPing, then rated PvP would not even be implemented in the game. This may have been the case pre BC, but times have changed and player vs player games are more popular and prevalent. Also, just because you preface it with something like "no offense" or "not trying to bash", doesn't make it sound any less bashful. I understand PvP players may be the minority in the game, but it doesn't mean we're less important.

- - - Updated - - -

Please do tell me about every single game of yours is being neck-to-neck fight with enemy healer surviving at 1% before his miracle comes off CD

I know in 1400 mmr this doesn't happen too much with you, but above 2k mmr, this happens more often than not. Please get out and learn more before you start spewing false narratives.

[Revik]

This is a clear cut case of "I have playstyle X but playstyle Y has an advantage. Please nerf playstyle Y."

If ANYONE on here is concerned about truly competitive PVP in WoW go play on a tournament realm. DONE PERIOD END OF STORY.

But the fact of the matter is no one on here complaining is truly competitive and wants to give everyone a fair shake. They just want to continue doing their casual PvP and nerf out anything that might be perceived as a possible issue to their domination of casual PvP.

Again if you want completely balanced PvP go play Street Fighter or CounterStrike. WoW PvP is not going to be balanced and now that you know this if you continue to play this unbalanced game it is your own fault.

[Krusza]

We care that the source of it is not from PvP.

Imagine how unacceptable this would be in reverse: Mythic Raids dropping worse gear for doing Bosses than rated Battlegrounds.

Thanks for deleting the rest of my quote.

Get higher rating, get better gear.

Your stat difference is still going to be negligible but everyone seems to be having a stroke over 2% stats.

[Charge me Doctor]

We care that the source of it is not from PvP.

Imagine how unacceptable this would be in reverse: Mythic Raids dropping worse gear for doing Bosses than rated Battlegrounds.

If average dragonslayer full mythic joe runs into 3v3 and slams everyone because of 3% difference in stats... wait, what i was talking about? That's not going to happen. People here are not comparing mythic raider to high end pvp guy, they are comparing high end pvp guy who also does mythic raiding to high end pvp guy.
3% stat difference is negligible no matter of your opinion. It's not what going to win/lose you a game unless you are playing on tournament realm. And if you do play on a tournament ream - the issue is non existent, because everyone here gets the same gear.
You seriously have to be nuts if you are going to do actual content mythic raiding AND high end PvP

- - - Updated - - -

You seriously didn't play much PvP I see.

You seriously didn't slain much dragons to think that someone who participates in mythic raiding also going to do high end PvP. It's like having three full-time jobs

- - - Updated - - -

I know in 1400 mmr this doesn't happen too much with you, but above 2k mmr, this happens more often than not. Please get out and learn more before you start spewing false narratives.

The "omg we lost this only because of them having all the luck while i had no luck because i didn't get 6 crits in a row, if i had these extra 3% stats i would definitely beat this pve scrub who got away only because he has 3% more stats than me!" sense is strong in this one

[Eazy]

You seriously didn't slain much dragons to think that someone who participates in mythic raiding also going to do high end PvP. It's like having three full-time jobs

I agree. It's hard to try being the best in PvP and PvE, but still - the gear shouldn't matter. If someone is doing PvE then it should be doing PvE and shouldn't have any advantage over people who are doing PvP.

Anyway - I had plenty of actions where I had 1-5% HP and ran away/killed someone. So that 1-5% of stats really matters.

[Mafic]

BiS raiders having few % more pvp power doesnt make any sense.

What possibly is reason for this design decisiong? Catering to dragon slayers who wanna be special unicorns?

Yes.

Legion is for PVE players. PVP players are told to go back of the bus.

- - - Updated - - -

Because effort usually pays off in MMOs.

lolwut?

PVE player detected.

[Crruor]

I like gear mattering, as long as that gear can also be gaine by pvping. It was relaxing to join a rbg and totally crush everyone after getting destroyed for days while gearing. Made it more rewarding to put the time in.

[shonist]

In pvp, effort pays of as becoming better and defeating your opponents.

Its fucking unbelieveable I actually have to explain why this is retarded. Apparently thread full of special dragonslayers.

what?
rofling

- - - Updated - - -

dragons are more difficult than you pvpers, so...

[Caolela]

dragons are more difficult than you pvpers, so...

Well...not really. Not when you've seen the same boss/adds/mechanics for the 4th or 18th or 33rd time, you get it figured out unless your IQ and hand-to-eye coordination is that of a small soap dish. Every PvE encounter is either a gear check or a stupid check, or some combo of them. PvE is very predictable.

OTOH, every time you queue a PvP instance you face a different map, different comp and/or players, and potential strategy. PvP is often unpredictable and has nearly endless variables.

This is WoW Fundamentals 101. Those who don't know it are either total noobs or are full of shit.

[Mafic]

Blizzard is dumb and Asmongold covered this in his video months ago:

Either all gear mattters or it doesn't. Blizzard is trying to stay in the middle but it is causing player resentment.

Blizz is saying gear matters a little but most of it will come from PVE content or sources. This angers PVP players rated or not.

Throw in RNG lockbox system for PVP gearing compared to PVE players only competing against static NPC's with known loot tables and it is a recipe for disaster.

[xhisors]

If average dragonslayer full mythic joe runs into 3v3 and slams everyone because of 3% difference in stats... wait, what i was talking about? That's not going to happen. People here are not comparing mythic raider to high end pvp guy, they are comparing high end pvp guy who also does mythic raiding to high end pvp guy.
3% stat difference is negligible no matter of your opinion. It's not what going to win/lose you a game unless you are playing on tournament realm. And if you do play on a tournament ream - the issue is non existent, because everyone here gets the same gear.
You seriously have to be nuts if you are going to do actual content mythic raiding AND high end PvP

No the majority of people will not notice the 3%. But think of it this way, what if that gap becomes 5%? Now your team is 5% weaker per person. Your team is now 15% in total stats behind the other team. Sure on a per person it may not be much but that adds up over the entire match. It shouldn't exist at all, period. Lots of matches at 2300+ at least for me end up being super close where that 3-5% matters just on living or dying.

Also you quoted his question.. but I still don't see a response to it.. what if PvP dropped the best PvE gear? Remember the 3 battlegrounds you had to do for the Legendary item? Yeah that was a shitstorm of QQ. I just don't think its right to shaft PvP players like this.