Unlicensed illegal invader crashes into accident scene, kills 2, injures 36.

[kail]

Maybe we should deport legal citizens tok based on our car crash metrics.

[May90]

Maybe we should deport legal citizens tok based on our car crash metrics.

I've already suggested this; all people could respond to this was "lol", which I find to be a very strong argument.

[Alydael]

Quick counter points that are not really that much of a rebutal, but me just nitpicking.

A few years back Georgia enacted papers-on-demand immigration laws that apparently fostered an environment of racial profiling. Undocumented workers left in droves, leaving crops to rot in the field. Consumer price spikes followed. When the law was enjoined it all went back to normal

Now you might be asking yourself: Where the wages too low? I'll quote:



So the question probably is: Is 10.80$/h too low? Would the unskilled youth accept wages of say 12$/h. Anecdotical story time: I have family in Santa Cruz, in fact it's where I used to live. My grandmother from my father's side has a farm and whenever she needs helps there are no loclas to do the Job, so she has to hire those that came elsewhere. The average wages for farmers in Bolivia is around 2500/Bs which is ~700 Bs more than minimum wage. Unskilled youth would rather do job at retail stores where the wage is lower, but there is less work to do. Although this is my personal opinion I think that if you're increasing wages...you wouldn't want to hire someone whos unskilled, you'd want someone who knows what they're doing who can output more at that higher wage because as a firm/employer you're putting more money down.

As a final nitpick youth unemployment has been on a steady decline since it peaked after the crisis, granted 10% that is still a lot.

This is not to say that the US does not need any change on immigration laws, I disagree with Trump on how he plans to do it and how he clogs the water of discussion when it comes to immigration with his rhetoric. ( I agree more with Gary Jhonson than any other candidate on this issue as I find both H and T pandering to their respective base)

I never said that I want to kick out undocumented workers or illegal aliens. I just said that I want a responsible immigration policy. I am not against immigration at all, I just want things to be managed properly. We employ a government, I want them to do their job and come up with a good policy instead of all this bickering and nonsense.

If you owned a company, would you want to go into the staff room and see them all bickering and things not getting done?

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The agricultural industry is not hiring teens for the summer or for a first job while they take a couple of college courses. Agriculture is grueling, intensive, long-hour work that requires a pretty significant commitment time and energy-wise.

I can't speak about the agricultural industry, I never worked in that field. I used to do plumbing (construction) before I finished my masters. Apprentices used to all be local teens trying to learn the trade. It is now all illegal immigrants sending money back to their home country (besides what they need to live).

Instead of a citizen learning a trade, we have an illegal immigrant siphoning off dollars (tax free of course), sending them back to their home country then leaving when they have enough to open a store or farm back home. Most of them also collect social benefits while they are here (since they don't have an "on the books" job, they qualify), which takes the benefit money away from someone who might really need it (how dispicable is that? robbing from the poor?)

Oh, btw, plumbing (and construction in general) is "grueling, intensive, long hour work." Ever try jack hammering through 12 feet of 'crete then digging a sewer line out of the dirt underneath that then replacing said sewer line and putting it all back?

[mvaliz]

Can a mod PLEASE change the title from "invader" to "immigrant", since he's clearly not invading nor attacking anything?

[The Stormbringer]

He was employed. As in someone paid him money. That someone should get a huge fine for hiring illegals.

Hiring a non-citizen may or may not be an issue depending on rules and regulations, but the real issue is hiring someone to drive who has no license or ability to drive. Especially in a situation where they're driving a larger, more dangerous vehicle such as a bus.

[Deleted]

gr8 race b8 m8

Way to avoid the point......

The US invaded more country than any other the last 100 years and the result was not "kills 2, injuries 36". So before complaining about "invaders", OP should think about that.

[Vash The Stampede]

Hiring a non-citizen may or may not be an issue depending on rules and regulations, but the real issue is hiring someone to drive who has no license or ability to drive. Especially in a situation where they're driving a larger, more dangerous vehicle such as a bus.

They hired a non-citizen to pay them very little. Of course they can't have a license because illegal. But against a lot of good judgments, they hired this guy. In doing so, they should get a heavy fine.

Part of the problem with illegal immigrants is that they get jobs. If nobody gave them jobs, they wouldn't come here illegally. I have no problem with immigrants, so long as they're legal and providing a job that's impossible for citizens fill.

[NineSpine]

I never said that I want to kick out undocumented workers or illegal aliens. I just said that I want a responsible immigration policy. I am not against immigration at all, I just want things to be managed properly. We employ a government, I want them to do their job and come up with a good policy instead of all this bickering and nonsense.

If you owned a company, would you want to go into the staff room and see them all bickering and things not getting done?

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I can't speak about the agricultural industry, I never worked in that field. I used to do plumbing (construction) before I finished my masters. Apprentices used to all be local teens trying to learn the trade. It is now all illegal immigrants sending money back to their home country (besides what they need to live).

Instead of a citizen learning a trade, we have an illegal immigrant siphoning off dollars (tax free of course), sending them back to their home country then leaving when they have enough to open a store or farm back home. Most of them also collect social benefits while they are here (since they don't have an "on the books" job, they qualify), which takes the benefit money away from someone who might really need it (how dispicable is that? robbing from the poor?)

Oh, btw, plumbing (and construction in general) is "grueling, intensive, long hour work." Ever try jack hammering through 12 feet of 'crete then digging a sewer line out of the dirt underneath that then replacing said sewer line and putting it all back?

Nearly everything you said there is incorrect.

1. Most undocumented workers pay taxes because they work on the books under fake numbers.

2. To qualify for any federal welfare program, you need to pass a citizenship check.

3. Social welfare programs do not stop giving out benefits because someone else used too much of it.

4. If someone is willing to do a job for less, they will get hired instead. A job can't be both a complex career path that requires years of apprenticeship, and also be so easy a random person with no background can come in and take the job. Many of these previously "apprenticeship" based fields were only like that because the people controlling the industry set up those rules to prevent competition from entering the market. The death of apprenticeship can more adequately be tied to the death of unionization, as the unions were the entities erecting these barriers to protect the workers in their field.

[Alydael]

Nearly everything you said there is incorrect.

1. Most undocumented workers pay taxes because they work on the books under fake numbers.

2. To qualify for any federal welfare program, you need to pass a citizenship check.

3. Social welfare programs do not stop giving out benefits because someone else used too much of it.

4. If someone is willing to do a job for less, they will get hired instead. A job can't be both a complex career path that requires years of apprenticeship, and also be so easy a random person with no background can come in and take the job. Many of these previously "apprenticeship" based fields were only like that because the people controlling the industry set up those rules to prevent competition from entering the market. The death of apprenticeship can more adequately be tied to the death of unionization, as the unions were the entities erecting these barriers to protect the workers in their field.

1) Not where I live they don't. It is called "off the books."

2) Again, not where I live you don't. I have actually seen illegal immigrants do it with my own two eyes. In fact, i saw it happen hundreds of times. They (the gov't) gives you an atm card. You can goto any atm an get the money and it refills each week.

3) Wake up. social welfare has a budget just like everyone else. When all the money is gone, that is it.... You can't make something out of nothing (unless you are using magic, but I am talking about real life).

4) Actually, as an apprentice in construction- it is both (sorry you are wrong again, do you get out much?). An apprentice typically carries the tools, materials, etc- so it is hard manual labor (when I did plumbing, my tool bag bucket alone weighed 92 lbs). It is also a career path to a plumbing license. I believe the average salary of someone with a plumbing license is 150k, so it is a pretty good career path.

[Captain N]

1) Not where I live they don't. It is called "off the books."

2) Again, not where I live you don't. I have actually seen illegal immigrants do it with my own two eyes. In fact, i saw it happen hundreds of times. They (the gov't) gives you an atm card. You can goto any atm an get the money and it refills each week.

3) Wake up. social welfare has a budget just like everyone else. When all the money is gone, that is it.... You can't make something out of nothing (unless you are using magic, but I am talking about real life).

4) Actually, as an apprentice in construction- it is both (sorry you are wrong again, do you get out much?). An apprentice typically carries the tools, materials, etc- so it is hard manual labor (when I did plumbing, my tool bag bucket alone weighed 92 lbs). It is also a career path to a plumbing license. I believe the average salary of someone with a plumbing license is 150k, so it is a pretty good career path.

1 and 2: Your personal anecdotes are not a reflection of reality as a whole. We have documented proof that illegal immigrants due pay a rather large amount into the system. (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...lions-in-taxes)

3. Social Welfare is handled by tax payers -- Unless we're suddenly eliminating taxation you will never see it "Run Out of Money" If your logic was true places like Norway, Denmark, and Sweden would all be bankrupt

4. The average salary of a Plumber in the US is about $55,000. (http://money.usnews.com/careers/best...plumber/salary) They're one of the top paid trades but nowhere near the number you came up with.

If you're going to pull shit out of your ass...at least do it with something that can't be debunked with a 5 second google search.

Oh and if your tool bucket weighed 92 lbs...You really need to stop carrying so much junk and get a couple of fitting trays.

[TirielWoW]

Hiring a non-citizen may or may not be an issue depending on rules and regulations, but the real issue is hiring someone to drive who has no license or ability to drive. Especially in a situation where they're driving a larger, more dangerous vehicle such as a bus.

There are local accusations that he was a regular worker for some local politicians known to be hardline, anti-immigration Republicans, which is another reason why his immigration status is a thing.

[Very Tired]

Can a mod PLEASE change the title from "invader" to "immigrant", since he's clearly not invading nor attacking anything?

Maybe, but then people everywhere would go on a ranting complaining about PC culture again.

[Alydael]

1 and 2: Your personal anecdotes are not a reflection of reality as a whole. We have documented proof that illegal immigrants due pay a rather large amount into the system. (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...lions-in-taxes)

3. Social Welfare is handled by tax payers -- Unless we're suddenly eliminating taxation you will never see it "Run Out of Money" If your logic was true places like Norway, Denmark, and Sweden would all be bankrupt

4. The average salary of a Plumber in the US is about $55,000. (http://money.usnews.com/careers/best...plumber/salary) They're one of the top paid trades but nowhere near the number you came up with.

If you're going to pull shit out of your ass...at least do it with something that can't be debunked with a 5 second google search.

Oh and if your tool bucket weighed 92 lbs...You really need to stop carrying so much junk and get a couple of fitting trays.

1) Illegal immigrants that they know of sometimes pay taxes. That does not include all the illegal immigrants that they don't know about. I even know citizens that are "off the books."

2) I don't know if it is handled differently in each state, but in NY they have had to cut benefits because the fund was running out of money.

3) I said a licensed plumber, not just a plumber. There is a big difference. This salary also varies by state. I would also imagine that the salary you quoted does not include "side" jobs.

4) As for carrying a heavy tool bucket- I worked in a lot of buildings in which it was a pain in the neck to get in and out. Carrying all that stuff saved me a ton of time and time is money my friend.

[Captain N]

1) Illegal immigrants that they know of sometimes pay taxes. That does not include all the illegal immigrants that they don't know about. I even know citizens that are "off the books."

2) I don't know if it is handled differently in each state, but in NY they have had to cut benefits because the fund was running out of money.

3) I said a licensed plumber, not just a plumber. There is a big difference. This salary also varies by state. I would also imagine that the salary you quoted does not include "side" jobs.

4) As for carrying a heavy tool bucket- I worked in a lot of buildings in which it was a pain in the neck to get in and out. Carrying all that stuff saved me a ton of time and time is money my friend.

1. Once again what you know doesn't mesh with reality. Your feels before real do not reflect what really goes on. Those illegal immigrants do require some sort of ID -- chances are it's fake -- but it means they're paying into a system they cannot withdraw from.

2. Do you have a credible source that isn't some right wing politician claiming that people are abusing the system and sucking it dry?

3. Someone doing commercial plumbing without a license is a Handyman -- Which means they're likely not bonded or insured either. Salary does vary by state this is indeed true but unless they're in upstate California they're not making $150,000. Even a Master Plumber in Upstate New York is only bringing in about $110,000...which is about right considering the homes that they do new construction on.

4. I suppose if you're doing strictly commercial plumbing that would make sense. I could see the weight being used for at least a 14" and 18" pipe wrench but for residential plumbing there's about 10 hand tools that will solve almost every situation.

1. Channel Locks

2. 8" Crescent Wrench

3. Hand Saw

4. Basin Wrench

5. Close Quarters Tubing Cutter

6. Adjustable head screwdriver

7. 12" Pipe Wrench

8. Hammer

9. An Elkay Wrench (For some reason people still insist on those cheap stainless kitchen sinks)

10. A Flat Bar

[The Stormbringer]

There are local accusations that he was a regular worker for some local politicians known to be hardline, anti-immigration Republicans, which is another reason why his immigration status is a thing.

If that's true, then one would almost think he was kept around just so an accident like this could happen and they could point and say, "SEE?! SEE WHAT HAPPENS?!" But that's pretty conspiracy theory.

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The "problem" is that the Irish immigration wave's acceptance was a threat to the anti-Irish culture that existed in many places in the USA. That particular bit of hatred and xenophobia ended up pretty much stamped out, as it should have been, since it was based on nothing but prejudice and hatred.

These folks try and present any adjustment to a national culture as if it's an attack, when it's far more often an improvement. Sure, changing from a slaveholding society to one that abhors the human rights abuse that is slavery was a major cultural shift, but an absolutely necessary one that has shaped modern society. For the better. Sure, to slaveholders, it was an "attack" on their "traditional values", but those "traditional values" were "black people aren't really people and it's totally okay to enslave and abuse them". Eliminating that "value" was a net gain for American society.

So sure; if your cultural views include hating Hispanics, for some reason, an influx of largely Hispanic immigrants is an "attack". But that kind of prejudice isn't anything we should be interested in protecting; it's a blight on society and should be given no support whatsoever.

If you want me, or anyone, to take complaints of an "attack on traditional values" seriously, you need to first identify the value in question, and how someone else doing their own thing next door is in any way an "attack" on it.

Why, because we can't gather a mob and go lynch them for being abhorrent perverts or whatever other excuse you like (heretic, witch, democrat, anti-gun, etc.)! You know, like the good old days!

[Breccia]

10. A Flat Bar

No, no, no no no. You want this:

If you don't have one of these, you're doing it wrong AND risking your life in a zombie apocalypse.

[waitwutt]

Way to avoid the point......

The US invaded more country than any other the last 100 years and the result was not "kills 2, injuries 36". So before complaining about "invaders", OP should think about that.

I agree, we should allow the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent americans because America has been in wars.

also thanks for not avoiding the point. subject is about illegal immigrant illegally doing a job hes not qualified for and killing people. your response is "well America killed people too...so... think about that...." gr8 race b8 cover up m8

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All I hear "the state requires", "the state wants". But I don't hear why and what for. .

many people have told you why and what for. youre a lunatic

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That doesn't answer my question. It's the same "State needs proof". Why?

you know what youre right. and why stop at ground based motor vehicles?

surgeons up next!

do you want your surgeon to have a surgical license? why? " I don't give a fuck. Only government cares somehow." you either can or cannot operate successfully. accidents happen with licenses and without licenses. The only reason to have licenses is to cash in on fines when people break arbitrary rules.

or airline pilots

do you want your pilot to have a license to fly? why? " I don't give a fuck. Only government cares somehow." you either can or cannot fly a plane successfully. accidents happen with licenses and without licenses. The only reason to have licenses is to cash in on fines when people break arbitrary rules.

im so glad my eyes have been open by your wisdom

[Alydael]

1. Once again what you know doesn't mesh with reality. Your feels before real do not reflect what really goes on. Those illegal immigrants do require some sort of ID -- chances are it's fake -- but it means they're paying into a system they cannot withdraw from.

2. Do you have a credible source that isn't some right wing politician claiming that people are abusing the system and sucking it dry?

3. Someone doing commercial plumbing without a license is a Handyman -- Which means they're likely not bonded or insured either. Salary does vary by state this is indeed true but unless they're in upstate California they're not making $150,000. Even a Master Plumber in Upstate New York is only bringing in about $110,000...which is about right considering the homes that they do new construction on.

4. I suppose if you're doing strictly commercial plumbing that would make sense. I could see the weight being used for at least a 14" and 18" pipe wrench but for residential plumbing there's about 10 hand tools that will solve almost every situation.

1. Channel Locks

2. 8" Crescent Wrench

3. Hand Saw

4. Basin Wrench

5. Close Quarters Tubing Cutter

6. Adjustable head screwdriver

7. 12" Pipe Wrench

8. Hammer

9. An Elkay Wrench (For some reason people still insist on those cheap stainless kitchen sinks)

10. A Flat Bar

As for tools, when you work in high rise buildings with door men it could literally take you an hour to go down and get a tool. The door man has to sign you out, take you to the service elevator, etc, etc. Bringing a lot of tools saves a ton of time. We did a lot of heating, steam fitting too so I often had an 18" and a 24" with me.

Where I work, an unlicensed but skilled plumber is known as a "mechanic," helpers are "apprentices" and anyone licensed is always referred to as a "licensed plumber. (since you need to license to take out permits and remove violations).

My sources are guys I worked with over a decade. Could they be lying? Certainly- I never checked their paperwork. They all used to laugh about how: they pass around kids to get extra benefits, collect benefits while working, send money back home, don't pay any taxes on their wages (cash money) and they are saving up planning on buying a store back in their home country (owning a store is like being the "local mayor" in some countries- it is more than just a store). Almost none of them planned to stay and become "legal" citizens. This is the same story I heard hundreds of times from hundreds of different people on different sites, etc. They could all be lying, but probably not likely.

I also always trust what I "see" and experience more than what sites online say and what politicians say. Politicians (on both sides of the aisle) are proven liars, they will basically say whatever is convenient atm and are not above "spinning" facts to suit their purposes. For me to trust an online site, I would have to know: who funded, who runs it, its sources, etc.

[Derah]

The title of this thread is pretty stupid.

"Illegal invader"? that's a redundancy. Unless there are legal invaders I'm not aware of. Either say invader, or illegal immigrant.

Illegal invader sounds as stupid as "illegal smuggler" or "Illegal rapist" or "Illegal drugdealer".

Its kinda built into the idea, that smuggling, raping, and drugdealing are all illegal, anyone who partakes into these activities is doing so outside the law, thus the "illegal" is not necessary when describing them.

Invader is also an innacurate term to describe him, because unless he brought an army, he's here on his lonesome. Just call him what he is: Illegal Immigrant and stop looking like an idiot.