I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Zappsz]

Imagine if the artifact chain required you to achieve a certain arena rating. People would go mental.

Seeing you can do it on normal EN the pvp equivalent would skirmishes or maybe 1500 rating. Either way something that doesn't take much effort.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

I did Normal EN on Day 1 on my Alt (839 Ilvl) with 12 strangers everyone on 830 - 840 Ilvl and cleared it in less than 90 minutes. you know ... Effort=Reward want a skin ? go and get it

[Snuffleupagus]

and specifically responded keep them there and make lfr share lookout so those runes remain a small reward to those doing lfr but raiders cannot waste their lockout trying to have them.

Runes are not necessary for LFR, so they have no reason to BE in LFR except to entice raiders.

So your options are:
- Lock people out of farming consumables and create an unbalanced AH market for runes.
- Admit that raiders carry and you don't want them to leave, maintaining the status quo.
- Remove runes from LFR and from the game entirely and rebalance raids for not having them (I would be for this).
- Allow them to drop elsewhere, providing a halfway point that still allows LFR players to farm and either use or sell them.
- Disable runes in anything but LFR.

Your answers are non-answers since you don't seem to comprehend that actually locking someone out of content is not the same as gating content behind difficulties.

[Osmeric]

The intent of runes seems to be as a way to funnel gold from progression raiders to LFR raiders.

[Icaras]

Exhibit A: Mmo-champion forums and gaming forums in general.

Exhibit B: MMO-champion and gaming forums in general: Replies that don't read and don't actually reply, but attempt to insult and troll.

[Aliven]

Sure, but this is Blizzard's game. They can do anything they want with it, just like you have the free will to give then your money. Although, if someone stopped playing the game over something like this (a fucking cosmetic), I wouldn't be against it. Those types of people are polluting the game as we speak.

It is not because cosmetic but because of what it represent.

[kary]

It is not because cosmetic but because of what it represent.

That you have to put in work for nice things?

[corebit]

Agreed, Normal Emerald Dream is harder than mythics, let alone heroics. I don't raid much but I did manage to clear normal ED finally last night, I think putting an artifact skin in LFR would devalue it too much.

It's one of the easiest raids ever designed, probably easier than WotLK Naxxramas. Our very casual guild wiped a couple of times on each boss until we got the hang of the mechanics, and we proceeded to one-shot the raid the next week.

If some people still think it's too daunting, they can wait until Kharazan/Nighthold, get their uber 860+ gear and come back and faceroll EN. The artifact skin is not going anywhere any time soon.

[Osmeric]

It's one of the easiest raids ever designed, probably easier than WotLK Naxxramas.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, but I would say it's easier than Normal was in WoD. It's still harder than H/M 5 mans. Not M+, though.

[Goldielocks]

It is not because cosmetic but because of what it represent.

I don't know what you mean, but it doesn't matter. A skin doesn't affect your gameplay, so there's no valid excuse.

[Stardrift]

No it's not. Normal is beyond easy. Get up and do them. Doesn't take a lot of time either. Get a progression group that does the raid a maximum of 2 hours per run. I'm in one that does exactly that and we've cleared normal. Moving onto heroic now.

[Shadowspire]

Lfr is only tourist

Tourist don't get the real effects from townsfolk going into the coal mine.

Tourist get to see what happens in the coal mine and get slightly nice looking rocks.

Want diamonds? Don't be a tourist.


Weird analogy but that is how I see it.

[Hitei]

Lfr is only tourist

Tourist don't get the real effects from townsfolk going into the coal mine.

Tourist get to see what happens in the coal mine and get slightly nice looking rocks.

Want diamonds? Don't be a tourist.


Weird analogy but that is how I see it.

...Do you think the miners are the ones who get the diamonds?

[Shadowspire]

...Do you think the miners are the ones who get the diamonds?

Nope, but no matter analogy is used to describe that lfr is fake raiding and deserves no reward will be seen as elitist eventhough all I do is norm and heroic.

[RobertoCarlos]

Nope, but no matter analogy is used to describe that lfr is fake raiding and deserves no reward will be seen as elitist eventhough all I do is norm and heroic.

Let the kids play with their toys. Lfr doesn't hurt anyone by being in the game. There's legit no need to run them

[Mackeyser]

Not gonna read all 110 pages, but have read several and hadn't read this point so I'll make it.

There is ONE big difference between LFR and pugging normal: When queueing for LFR, the system doesn't expect you to be MASSIVELY overgeared just to be part of a group because the group wants to SO overgear the content that they essentially want to treat the NORMAL like LFR. I've pugged Normal...and what it amounts to is a bunch of overgeared folks STILL standing in the same bad, but doing it with better gear.

So the difference is that if LFR requires 825 or whatever, then you can actually DO it with 825. If Normals should have 835ish, then good luck getting into a Normal with anything LESS than 850. Both my sons tried pugging Normals, both are around 840 (one's at 839 on a Combat Rogue and the other's at 842 on a Ret Pally) and BOTH were summarily turned down for NORMALS for iLvl being TOO LOW.

Now...if the Artifact Quest does, in fact, require Normal raids and as is true for most people they aren't good at forming groups (or there wouldn't ever have been a need to develop the LFR/LFG tool in the first place), then that means that the gearing requirement essentially is being artificially being inflated by a sometimes lazy community that for the most part really doesn't want to do much if any more work than LFR. Moreover, it's not like the gear dropped from Normal will likely be of any benefit outside of the rare Warforged/Titanforged upgrade.

I really don't care, anymore. I was a heroic raider, raid lead, guild leader...been there, done that. Now, I'm just content to get my "wow time". I may not raid at all, not even LFR. Haven't decided, yet.

Still, doesn't make any difference to me, but you can't just say "pug normal". It doesn't work that way. There are timing logistics AND you have to be accepted into a group. Not every class can find a group easily (tanks have a hard time because so few are needed and certain dps specs are summarily dismissed). Even some healers can struggle to find entrance to a pug group (most group leads/raid leads have no idea how to proper use the current Disc Priest, for example).

[Floopa]

completely fine.

don't raid? don't get the skin. right now im no longer doing withered training and so my chance to get the WW artifact skin is 0%. thats fine too.

[Muadiib]

It's one of the easiest raids ever designed, probably easier than WotLK Naxxramas. Our very casual guild wiped a couple of times on each boss until we got the hang of the mechanics, and we proceeded to one-shot the raid the next week.

If some people still think it's too daunting, they can wait until Kharazan/Nighthold, get their uber 860+ gear and come back and faceroll EN. The artifact skin is not going anywhere any time soon.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying it's harder than Mythics, at least for me, Mythics for me are almost /faceroll already.

[Snuffleupagus]

Let the kids play with their toys. Lfr doesn't hurt anyone by being in the game. There's legit no need to run them

Don't be daft. After the first tier, all decent guilds require runes.

Which are locked behind satchels and LFR.

LFR can stay, but raiders need to not be bribed in there.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't disagree, I'm just saying it's harder than Mythics, at least for me, Mythics for me are almost /faceroll already.

M+ gets to be harder than normal EN after the first affix. Normal is not hard by any stretch of the imagination.

- - - Updated - - -

The intent of runes seems to be as a way to funnel gold from progression raiders to LFR raiders.

Which gives us the toxicity we see now. Unless you lock people out of content (which Blizzard knows will not work), runes will still be farmable by raiders.

Either lock the consumable to LFR only, remove them, or have them drop from other difficulties.

[RobertoCarlos]

Don't be daft. After the first tier, all decent guilds require runes.

Which a are locked behind satchels and LFR.

Which you can also buy with gold. Something hardcore raiders should have in abundance.