Erdogan disputes Treaty of Lausanne, prompting response from Athens - Is War coming?

[Kuntantee]

Really? because there are coins from ancient Byzantium that want a word with you.

Are you claiming Turkey is using the emblem of Byzantine Empire?

- - - Updated - - -

Who would want to be part of Turkey anyway...yuck....there's a reason so many Turks move to Germany

This is supposed to taunt me?

- - - Updated - - -

Turkey reminds me of khorne cultists. They are very aggressive.

There are two empires in this world which actually damaged civilizations beyond the point of repair: Mongol Empire and USA. When it comes to aggressors and warmongers list, USA is at the second spot. Mongol Empire was even worse, I'll give you that.

[Deleted]

The Greek flag wasn't there all the time, it was put, at best, few days, probably hours, ago. Lausanne says no such thing. It says anything closer than 3 mile is given to Turkish side. It doesn't say anything further than 3 miles CAN NOT be Turkish.

OH god (and im an agnostic/atheist), you ARE as dumb as you seem. You people twist history to fit your narrative. Read the damn articles 12 and 15 of the treaty.

[Kuntantee]

OH god (and im an agnostic/atheist), you ARE as dumb as you seem. You people twist history to fit your narrative. Read the damn articles 12 and 15 of the treaty.

You haven't read them in your life, have you?

The relevant passage from article 12:

"[...] Except where a provision to the contrary is contained in the present Treaty, the islands situated at less than three miles from the Asiatic coast remain under Turkish sovereignty."

- Says nothing about Islands farther than 3 miles.

The relevant passage from article 15:

"Turkey renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title over the following islands: [here follows an enumeration of the 13 largest islands in the Dodecannese area, by name], and the islets dependent thereon [...]"

- Doesn't define dependent. Kardak is closer to Turkey than the closest big Greek Island.

[Theinquisition]

Are you claiming Turkey is using the emblem of Byzantine Empire?

- - - Updated - - -



This is supposed to taunt me?

- - - Updated - - -



There are two empires in this world which actually damaged civilizations beyond the point of repair: Mongol Empire and USA. When it comes to aggressors and warmongers list, USA is at the second spot. Mongol Empire was even worse, I'll give you that.

U.S. civilization is doing pretty well. The only civilizations we've damaged are those not worthy of existing anyhow

[Kuntantee]

U.S. civilization is doing pretty well. The only civilizations we've damaged are those not worthy of existing anyhow

This is a signature-worthy, Hitler-style quote Tony. Nice one. I'll refrain putting this abomination to my signature tho.

[DrMcNinja]

Where can I start my Spartan training?

- - - Updated - - -

U.S. civilization is doing pretty well. The only civilizations we've damaged are those not worthy of existing anyhow

There wouldn't be enough palms to facepalm adequately to this even if you combined the hands of everyone on Earth from every possible alternate reality, timeline etc.

[Deleted]

You haven't read them in your life, have you?

The relevant passage from article 12:

"[...] Except where a provision to the contrary is contained in the present Treaty, the islands situated at less than three miles from the Asiatic coast remain under Turkish sovereignty."

- Says nothing about Islands farther than 3 miles.

The relevant passage from article 15:

"Turkey renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title over the following islands: [here follows an enumeration of the 13 largest islands in the Dodecannese area, by name], and the islets dependent thereon [...]"

- Doesn't define dependent. Kardak is closer to Turkey than the closest big Greek Island.

/Facepalm The one article completes the other, meaning that you have renounced sovereignty of anything over 3 nm of your coast. And dependent is this case means anything over 3nm.
Also, Imia is closer to a Greek island, its called Kalolimnos, an inhabited island.

[JohnBrown1917]

Doubt it.

The EU litterally stood and watched as ethnic cleansing took place in Serbia/Kosovo.

I think Greece will be in their own on this one. Every survey I have seen has Greece as being the least friendly country towards the U.S. so.....don't expect much from us.

Good luck.

Our troops did what they could in Serbia.
But Greece is part of the NATO, it would fall apart if we did not defend them.

[Kuntantee]

/Facepalm The one article completes the other, meaning that you have renounced sovereignty of anything over 3 nm of your coast. And dependent is this case means anything over 3nm.

That's a problematic interpretation. You are asserting what is not being suggested in the articles. Pretty much every single historian/lawyer I spoke with says the Island articles in Lausanne worded poorly for international law. Considering there are easier ways to imply what you thin is being implied in the articles, wording is intentional to be vague. Without any interpretation, a good portion of the islands are on gray-zone because the article 15 didn't define "dependent".

Also, Imia is closer to a Greek island, its called Kalolimnos, an inhabited island.

According to wiki, it is 6.3 miles to Kalmynos and 4.4 miles to Bodrum. Kalolimnos is not a big island. Other islands can not depend on it. This confirms what I've already stated. Your problem is you think you know, but you don't. It also applies to your deduction of article 12. Go consult a lawyer, and learn how a text subject to international law is interpreted.

[Vash The Stampede]

Depends on who is the aggressor. You can be damn sure that Turkey won't be aggressor. The official state paradigm of Turkey is defensive in nature. The current government is probably the most "aggressive" Turkey can get and they've taken their lessons.

Considering this is all about the Aegean islands that Greece has, I would imagine that Turkey is the one to fight for them. It's not like Greece is going after Turkey to keep Islands they already have. They're broke as it is, and they certainly couldn't afford to start a fight as a "preventative measure".

Besides this is just bullshit. Nobody is going to start a fight, let alone a war.

Just a blank statement. I could say otherwise, it would be equally blank. Both countries need to improve, not just Turkey.

Greece needs to fix their economy, and that's about it. Turkey though has leagalized 12 year old sex, had a recent coup, and lets not forget their continued business in Syria. Just recently they released the ban on headscarves. It's not just Greece, but all of Europe is going to have problems with Turkey if they're not more progressive.

[Kuntantee]

Considering this is all about the Aegean islands that Greece has, I would imagine that Turkey is the one to fight for them. It's not like Greece is going after Turkey to keep Islands they already have. They're broke as it is, and they certainly couldn't afford to start a fight as a "preventative measure".

Besides this is just bullshit. Nobody is going to start a fight, let alone a war.

They did planned and attempted a coup to claim entire Cyprus. You are underestimating Greece's ambitions as a country. Not now perhaps, but you never know. So it all depends on the aggressor. In the last battles (1919, 1974) fought between Turkey and Greece, Greeks were the aggressors. I agree tho. This statement is directed to us Kemalists, not Greeks and there won't be a war unless Greece attacks first or acts overly ambitious again.

Greece needs to fix their economy, and that's about it. Turkey though has leagalized 12 year old sex, had a recent coup, and lets not forget their continued business in Syria. Just recently they released the ban on headscarves. It's not just Greece, but all of Europe is going to have problems with Turkey if they're not more progressive.

First, these aren't relevant to the topic we are discussing. Second, it was Europe and USA backed up an Islamist government in 2001, thinking they could control them easily and serve the interest of West. If you have doubt, open European/American news in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and see the endless praises. People like me were saying the same things we are saying now: Islamist government will be a problem for pretty much everyone. I am not blaming Europe or USA for election of Erdogan, it's just West's stance against Erdogan at the moment is hypocritical. It was very well known by entire world what kind of direction he would take while leading Turkey, they supported him anyway.