[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[rhorle]

You said it was a bad design. How?

How many times do I have to say how it is a bad design? Restricting the viewing of inventory when in water that isn't even deep enough to harm your character, is a a bad design. Things can be designed poorly even if they are optional and not a "must". You keep trying to gate keep with word play rather then actually explain why it is good design to restrict inventory opening.

[Fencers]

How many times do I have to say how it is a bad design? Restricting the viewing of inventory when in water that isn't even deep enough to harm your character, is a a bad design.

But you are just saying it is bad design based on your personal feeling- which I 100% agree with, it's stupid and doesn't make the game more fun to me. That is different than saying it is bad design; which it is not. The water hazard does not contradict the game rules expressed to the player.

The developers wanted a terrain to represent a barrier and hazard to the player- they decided on water currently. The rules of the player being in water are such; you can drown and your actions are limited.

They could have replaced ALL water in the game with flat red tiles that made a sound like a klaxon if they so wanted. As long as it served the same purpose, it would be good design. Good design is that which serves and communicates the intent of the developers or creators.

If I designed an environment whereby I wanted everyone walking through it to make two lefts and right to reach the top of a walkway there are all sorts of ways I might go about that goal. I might implement some environmental thing such as really high walls that create a hallway effect, perhaps no walls but flaming pits of used tires border the walkway on either side or maybe I lay down a whole bunch of sticky goop to funnel people in such a way they take two lefts and a right.

None of these would be bad design. You could even ignore or circumvent some of them too. But you'd be affected by the design decisions I made to direct or limit your course through the walkway no matter what and the communicative effect is that going through the goop/walls/tires is not the path.

Here is what would be bad design under the same scenario as above; to progress to the top of the walkway you need to make two rights and a left with all the above signaling two lefts and right. Because it would contradict how I am expressing the game rules.

It's why very commonly, designers do not render farthings you can not travel to in your immediate space. I.E. there is usually a little barrier or wall to keep you the path in a dungeon in Rift or some boxes/debris disallow jumping up a stairway and out a window in Back 4 Blood.

There is no wordplay here. Gameplay and game design are serious topics to me. I treat them seriously regardless of my feelings toward a game or their implementation. This is the very art of video games.

[rhorle]

But you are just saying it is bad design based on your personal feeling- which I 100% agree with, it's stupid and doesn't make the game more fun to me. That is different than saying it is bad design; which it is not. The water hazard does not contradict the game rules expressed to the player.

It isn't a water hazard. It is limiting the ability to open the inventory. There is no terrain hazard to players with the inventory open or closed. You are so caught up in your feelings that even when you state it is poor design you can't actually state it is poor design.

[Fencers]

It isn't a water hazard. It is limiting the ability to open the inventory. There is no terrain hazard to players with the inventory open or closed. You are so caught up in your feelings that even when you state it is poor design you can't actually state it is poor design.

A terrain that limits your movement and actions is expressed to the player as a hazard. Were you not a few pages ago saying how you couldn't attack (which was wrong) in water or move as well?

If it is not a hazard, why would water even behave that way? If there was no downside to traversing in water- why can't we just glide through it effortlessly in the game? That's less work to implement as a mechanic than as it stands now.

I think it is a stupid design decision because it doesn't make the game more fun to limit looking at inventory. That isn't bad design.

- - - Updated - - -

A little video with more details on the trading post hubbub.

[rhorle]

A terrain that limits your movement and actions is expressed to the player as a hazard. Were you not a few pages ago saying how you couldn't attack (which was wrong) in water or move as well?

So you are arguing based on past statements rather then responding what is currently being said? Lol.

If it is not a hazard, why would water even behave that way?

Hence why it is bad design that it limits you opening the inventory when it isn't even a hazard at the time. It is so weird that you keep making statements that agree with what I've said, argue that it is silly design, and then still can't actually commit to calling it poor design. Lol.

[Nyel]

Ahaha, every patch breaks the game even more. It’s hilarious what a sh*tshow all these maintenances are, breaking more stuff than they fix. The megathread for bugs related to 1.0.4 is full of stuff that didn’t happen before. It’s really a delight to see what has been broken now and some of the bugs are even super funny.

[Kyanion]

Ahaha, every patch breaks the game even more. It’s hilarious what a sh*tshow all these maintenances are, breaking more stuff than they fix. The megathread for bugs related to 1.0.4 is full of stuff that didn’t happen before. It’s really a delight to see what has been broken now and some of the bugs are even super funny.

Yeah I am reading some of these bugs and holy shit. Some of the highlights/lowlights:
Selling an item on the auction house gives you ZERO gold if you are offline.
Greataxe's Bloodlust skill gives a PERMANENT speed buff
A lifestaff skill let's you crouch and heal for every time you crouch

[rhorle]

some of the bugs are even super funny.

Yeah it is kinda of crazy. Each time you crouch in sacred ground you get a "tick" of healing. So you if you spam crouch you essentially get unlimited healing as long as you are in sacred ground. So people are calling it heal-bagging ( a play on tea-bagging). All the weird movement ones are hilarious as well with how distorted they make the player animations.

They break more then they fix at this point and the game really should have been kept in beta. There is an interview/comments made by the vice president of AGS that basically says he has heard no complaints about the game. Combined with the "the economy is fine" comments it really makes you wonder how much AGS really understands about development and how much is just a pump and dump for money type of philosophy.

[Nyel]

Yeah I am reading some of these bugs and holy shit. Some of the highlights/lowlights:
Selling an item on the auction house gives you ZERO gold if you are offline.
Greataxe's Bloodlust skill gives a PERMANENT speed buff
A lifestaff skill let's you crouch and heal for every time you crouch

Just look at this list, it’s even getting longer and longer: https://forums.newworld.com/t/megath...athread/461620

And that doesn’t even contain most of the bugs from the last weeks and the bugs they said they fixed but never were fixed in reality.

[Katchii]

I think it is a stupid design decision because it doesn't make the game more fun to limit looking at inventory. That isn't bad design.

I think of it like a spectrum where you have "good" ideas on one side and "bad" ideas on the other. Bad doesn't mean it doesn't work, or that it doesn't function as intended, it just means that there are better, more effective, more efficient, etc... ways to do something.

What would you consider a "bad design?"

[Al Gorefiend]

You also couldn't jump with that much stuff in your bag...or you know, stand up. Or have a bag big enough to put that much weight in.

It's just a design choice they made, simple as that. Likely saved them a bit of time/money on swim animations and getting that system working, and since the world is designed around not swimming it's not a limiting decision.

It's more to do with what today's expectations for an open world adventure game is, especially for an MMO. Not launching with so many common rpg elements like mounts, collectible pets, swimming, environment effects (they made it rain in a single zone and it rains nowhere else).

This feels like a step back in the industry and not the bold new MMO I was hoping for. But it's alright, I'll be patient and see what content patches are going to look like

[pahbi]

Yeah it is kinda of crazy. Each time you crouch in sacred ground you get a "tick" of healing. So you if you spam crouch you essentially get unlimited healing as long as you are in sacred ground. So people are calling it heal-bagging ( a play on tea-bagging). All the weird movement ones are hilarious as well with how distorted they make the player animations.

They break more then they fix at this point and the game really should have been kept in beta. There is an interview/comments made by the vice president of AGS that basically says he has heard no complaints about the game. Combined with the "the economy is fine" comments it really makes you wonder how much AGS really understands about development and how much is just a pump and dump for money type of philosophy.

Healbagging

Thats gotta be the internet word of the year... seriously.

I mean, just the visual of a bunch of players heal bagging themselves is hysterical...

[Fencers]

Official word on the trading post issue;

https://forums.newworld.com/t/notice...-issues/462447

What a mess.

[Edge-]

What a mess.

Yeah, seems like they backloaded their stumbles pretty hard after what was a fairly smooth launch, all things considered. Good thing I don't mess around with the trading post at all (and don't have much money as a result) : D

[Biomega]

I'm not myself playing this, but watching streams and videos with all the bugs is profoundly entertaining. I feel for the people suffering because of these issues, but "healbagging" is just a funny concept to watch XD

[kenn9530]

I'm not myself playing this, but watching streams and videos with all the bugs is profoundly entertaining. I feel for the people suffering because of these issues, but "healbagging" is just a funny concept to watch XD

When you play a newly launched MMO you expect several months of issues to deal with, every single MMO that has launched has had plenty of its own bugs and issues, current issues in NW are just mild inconveniences at most.

[Edge-]

current issues in NW are just mild inconveniences at most.

Not really dude. AH being borked for a day+ is more than a bit of an issue, and that they're struggling to get a handle on invulnerability exploits and other related issues is proving to be a more serious/persistent problem.

They had a good launch for the most part, but they're starting to stumble with these updates.

[kenn9530]

Not really dude. AH being borked for a day+ is more than a bit of an issue, and that they're struggling to get a handle on invulnerability exploits and other related issues is proving to be a more serious/persistent problem.

They had a good launch for the most part, but they're starting to stumble with these updates.

All the stuff i post sells while im online so i got no issues with getting gold for the TP, anyone exploiting can just be reported and banned so players would be stupid to use it and lose all the progress on their char, anyone exploiting will eventually be dealt with and players will get what they are owned from the TP. You get rewarded just fine winning or losing wars just like the invasions where i have yet to see anyone win one.

[Edge-]

All the stuff i post sells while im online so i got no issues with getting gold for the TP

Because it doesn't give you gold if you're offline, as linked above in the Amazon post that's the bug. Thankfully they can grant it back to folks when the fix goes through, we just gotta hope they don't break that or introduce more AH bugs.

anyone exploiting can just be reported and banned so players would be stupid to use it and lose all the progress on their char

Doesn't change the fact that the exploits are tied to some serious issues that are not "mild inconveniences", and may speak to broader issues with the way the game is coded, given that these issues keep popping up despite Amazon's efforts to squash them.

[Aoewy]

When you play a newly launched MMO you expect several months of issues to deal with, every single MMO that has launched has had plenty of its own bugs and issues, current issues in NW are just mild inconveniences at most.

Not really no. I love the game, Im at 340 hours since launch, 250+ on betas. I really enjoy losing myself in this world. But some of these are not "mild inconveniences at most". Everything that affect the economy is dangerous for the long term, same for all the lags / freeze / invincibility in wars; Wars are key part of the entire experience, you cannot let that slip for too long, and its been already long.

I'm not asking for a perfect experience or no bug, I know it will happens. But sometimes, the best way is to take the hard decision, which could be to bring down the servers for a time and work on these crucial problems. Some people will cry, reddit will be on fire with trolls who enjoy seeing bad things happens to other games (for some reason), but it would be the right decision.