[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[Acidbaron]

Weapons i remember are 1h sword and shield, fire staff, life staff, musket, 2h axe/hammer, also seen there is an ice gauntlet and there might be pistols im not sure, there will be a fair amount of different builds you can make, heard lots of the weapons skills have been changed abit so probably wont find out properly until release.

Fair enough, will be interesting to see what they do with weapon based builds over classes, reminds me somewhat over The secret world systems. Still on the fence if i should pre-order or not, hope i can get a hands on before purchasing.

[Gaidax]

It really does not matter what class/skill system they have, it's all down to whether they will have content that appeals to the masses they need for this game to live beyond first year.

[Acidbaron]

It really does not matter what class/skill system they have, it's all down to whether they will have content that appeals to the masses they need for this game to live beyond first year.

It matters to me if i intend to play it ;P i do expect it won't be something over complicated as it is as you say a game that has to appeal to the masses looking at their overall design vision.

[starstationprofm]

"Ridiculous" is just your opinion.

ridiculous
/rɪˈdɪkjʊləs/
Învățați să pronunțați
adjective
deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.

No, it's an adjective, actually. And BDO's RNG fits it perfectly. When you can grind for weeks and lose all 'progress' ( progress = Silver in BDO because it's a shit game ) due to bad RNG, that is the definition of ridiculous. That's not opinion, that's simply fact. And the majority of gamers would agree, considering they find even WoW's loot system a meaningful grind.

I want anyone in this forum to tell me with a straight face that grinding X hours a day for 2 weeks and ending up with nothing because of a bad dice throw isn't absurd. And if no one can, maybe it's not an opinion as you claim, but a fact.

Also, your opinion.

Absolutely not. Mobs all have the same AI, no tactics, no spells you should interrupt. This is fact, not opinion.

None of that means anything

It means plenty. When a character can 1v10 people who are equally geared, the balance is shit.

What if someone likes the "loot pinata"

Good for all 12 people who like it. But it's still a loot pinata with no intelligence, tactics or difficulty beyond having enough gear points to kill it in a fast enough time that it's profitable.

No one is allergic to bad ice cream

Then why aren't more people trying it? BDO bragged about having what, 1 million players? In 6 years? Pathetic numbers for the MMO with the best graphics and character customisation ever.

Why's that? Oh yeah because it's pay to win and the gameplay sucks.

"Maybe, but it wasn't the shareholders that put the Crafting bag into ESO."

Last I checked it's developers developing a game, not some dude who bought shares in the company.

But shareholders (I think Zenumax is a holding company IIRC) do expect revenue to go up continually- that's the point

So does Blizzard, yet if they started selling Tier gear in WoW for $$$ people would rightfully be outraged. Just like how the crafting bag in ESO is outrageous.

EVERYONE knows companies are meant to make money, this isn't some 'Eureka!' level discovery. But there are scummy ways to do it and less scummy ways to do it. Having a broken, garbage crafting system that barrages you with mats which clutter your bags and dangling a way to do away with that in return for $$$ is scummy. People who buy the game deserve a crafting system which isn't shit. You buy the game you should get the full experience. Anything else is scummy as fuck.

[Fencers]

No, it's an adjective, actually. And BDO's RNG fits it perfectly. When you can grind for weeks and lose all 'progress' ( progress = Silver in BDO because it's a shit game ) due to bad RNG, that is the definition of ridiculous. That's not opinion, that's simply fact. And the majority of gamers would agree, considering they find even WoW's loot system a meaningful grind.

Now you are just acting silly. Adjectives are not objectively true. What is deserving mockery or derision has no object basis- it's opinion.

Go shop around your opinion on what is ridiculous to any linguist as objectively true.

I want anyone in this forum to tell me with a straight face that grinding X hours a day for 2 weeks and ending up with nothing because of a bad dice throw isn't absurd. And if no one can, maybe it's not an opinion as you claim, but a fact.

It would still be an opinion even if every single person on Earth agreed. There is no independent object qualifier whereby how one feels about anything is true.

Absolutely not. Mobs all have the same AI, no tactics, no spells you should interrupt. This is fact, not opinion.

It is your opinion that you dislike this or find it to be negative. Because that is how you feel about it supposedly.

It means plenty. When a character can 1v10 people who are equally geared, the balance is shit.

Opinion. Means nothing.

Good for all 12 people who like it.

Even if one person liked it, hell even if one person was indifferent to it- it would be absolutely contra to what you think is true.

Then why aren't more people trying it?

How do you know they are not?

Last I checked it's developers developing a game, not some dude who bought shares in the company.

They developed for those who own the company.

So does Blizzard, yet if they started selling Tier gear in WoW for $$$ people would rightfully be outraged. Just like how the crafting bag in ESO is outrageous.

I don't play World of Warcraft. I I have no idea what you are talking about here at all.

EVERYONE knows companies are meant to make money, this isn't some 'Eureka!' level discovery.

It isn't, then why are you so foolishly acting dumb about this?

But there are scummy ways to do it and less scummy ways to do it.

Sure, but that means dick-all. A company can and will do whatever it takes legally (sometimes illegally too frankly) for profit. Whether or not it is "scummy" is irrelevant to them for the most part. They do what they can get away with.

[starstationprofm]

Now you are just acting silly. Adjectives are not objectively true. What is deserving mockery or derision has no object basis- it's opinion.

Nonsense, the majority of people agree on some things that are ridiculous. Like wearing clown shoes on a date. It's so unanimously agreed that's ridiculous that you can state it as a fact. Just like how I can state facts about BDO.

Go shop around your opinion on what is ridiculous to any linguist

Why would I care what a linguist says?

It would still be an opinion even if every single person on Earth agreed

No, it wouldn't be. And facts are just opinions people accept en masse.

Like " Shit tastes bad " " Pus looks nasty " " Vomit smells bad "

Those things are so overwhelmingly agreed upon that no one's gonna' go " Woah that's an opinion bro that's subjective111!!! here's my literature degree btw " when you say them.

You're trying really hard to argue semantics here. It's unneeded.

It is your opinion that you dislike this or find it to be negative

Mine and anyone whose opinion about a game is worth a damn. Anyone who looks at BDO's AI and thinks " This is fine " is outright wrong. And this isn't opinion, it's simply fact. The AI is laughable, it just stands there and does nothing. I can safely, unanimously call it a bad AI, even if in your opinion ( see what I did there ) that's an opinion.

Opinion. Means nothing.

WRONG.

One character beating 10 being bad balance is FACT.

Any game developer is going to tell you that 1 player should not be able to beat multiple just because he chose a certain class.

Even if one person liked it

Find that person.

How do you know they are not?

Because their playerbase is small, their facebook posts are full of people making fun of the game and it just, all around, has a really bad reputation.

They developed for those who own the company.

You think Metzen was e-mailing Mike Morhaime whenever he was putting something in the game?

Shareholders look at the bottom line, not every patch note.

I don't play World of Warcraft. I I have no idea what you are talking about here at all.

A company needing to make money is no excuse to be scummy.

It isn't, then why are you so foolishly acting dumb about this

I'm not acting dumb, I'm just wasting time on a contrarian obsessed with semantics.

A company can and will do whatever it takes legally (sometimes illegally too frankly) for profit

And we're rightfully calling them out on it.

[Fencers]

Nonsense, the majority of people agree on some things that are ridiculous. Like wearing clown shoes on a date. It's so unanimously agreed that's ridiculous that you can state it as a fact. Just like how I can state facts about BDO.

That's not even close to being true. Especially as concerns entertainment.

No, it wouldn't be. And facts are just opinions people accept en masse.

No, this also is not true.

Those things are so overwhelmingly agreed upon that no one's gonna' go " Woah that's an opinion bro that's subjective111!!! here's my literature degree btw " when you say them.

Still not true. Some people like that gross stuff. You are just saying "the majority of people agree with me" and that might be, but that doesn't make what everyone agrees upon objectively true. It's a feeling, an opinion.

Mine and anyone whose opinion about a game is worth a damn.

Who is deciding whose opinion is "worth a damn"? You? Uh-huh, really solid basis.

Anyone who looks at BDO's AI and thinks " This is fine " is outright wrong.

Why would they be wrong? What if some players were indifferent to or did not want more complex AI? People can like different things or not care about some things at all.

And this isn't opinion, it's simply fact.

This is totally stupid.

One character beating 10 being bad balance is FACT.

Still not a fact. Just your feeling.

Because their playerbase is pathetically small, their facebook posts are full of people making fun of the game and it just, all around, has a really bad reputation.

Bad ice cream has a bad reputation? Hmm.

You think Metzen was e-mailing Mike Morhaime whenever he was putting something in the game?

Yes. Absolutely. They would have had several meetings and many discussions about any major system in the game especially as concerns the profitability of a game.

You have any idea how many departmental heads have to be in on the development of a game? All of them.

Shareholders look at the bottom line, not every patch note.

Still not understanding the direct and indirect phrasing of my earlier post. I'm not gonna continue conversing with you on this. What you think is meaningless and I am sure many games, developers, and publishers will go on ticking regardless of your rantings on a forum.

A company needing to make money is no excuse to be scummy.

They don't care about being "scummy" they care about not appearing so scummy they lose money.

I'm not acting dumb, I'm just wasting time on a contrarian obsessed with semantics.

It is completely dumb to think how you feel about anything means it is a fact. You have no idea what you are talking about,

[starstationprofm]

That's not even close to being true. Especially as concerns entertainment.

It is, though. We humans as a society have come together to purge opinions we consider unacceptable all the time.

Some people like that gross stuff.

And some people think X race should be abolished because of Y feature. We call those people 'wrong'.

Who is deciding whose opinion is "worth a damn"

The majority.

Why would they be wrong?

Because AI complexity can be objectively measured and BDO's is just dumb loot pinatas.

What if some players were indifferent to or did not want more complex AI?

Good for them? I said the AI is dumb. You seem to keep disagreeing.

Still not a fact. Just your feeling.

Game balance is a video game design concept where the strengths of a character or a particular strategy are offset by a proportional drawback in another area to prevent domination of one character or gaming approach

No, see, 1 player beating 10 is factually not 'balanced' under the definition.

Bad ice cream has a bad reputation? Hmm

Shocking, right?

Yes. Absolutely.

There is absolutely 0 way it would be practical for Metzen to mail the CEO for every quest and mechanics.

I'm not gonna continue conversing with you on this.

You call this conversation? You've been arguing semantics like a robot that doesn't understand normal human interaction for 2 pages.

They don't care about being "scummy" they care about not appearing so scummy they lose money.

Then it's a good thing we're calling them out.

You have no idea what you are talking about,

You're the one who said BDO's AI isn't objectively bad, or that 1 player beating 10 because of his class alone is not imbalanced.

Both of those are facts. Keep arguing opinion this, opinion that, but you're simply wrong ( and sound like the Tin Man while doing it )

[Nzx]

This post reeks of trust fund child.

Total opposite, actually. No one in my extended family will leave me shit when they die. I've earned every cent I have ever or will ever own. I'm just fucking tired of people completely obliterating nuance and pretending that every dollar a company charges you beyond exactly what it costs to produce whatever you're buying is some kind of disgusting extortion.

Here's my argument in it's simplest terms: everyone here seems to agree that those who are cash poor and time rich should have an objective advantage over everyone else because they can play 16 hours a day due to having nothing important in their lives to neglect. However, those who are time poor and even just cash "average" should get fucked and be forced to play through content they already completed dozens of times because "muh prestige", whatever the fuck that means. What you pretend is "equality" is actually disadvantaging another group of players, you just don't care or understand because those players aren't you. No one is asking for a boost to Cutting Edge and a full set of max ilvl gear. I'm suggesting that it's a poor business decision and a poor decision for customer experience if you don't offer an option for a player to join the game and immediately engage with their friends who are already playing, and with 90% of its content.

[deenman]

I disagree. I think any ingame boosts for $$ is pay to win.

Pay for Convenience is just a term invented by Greedy Devs to make the scummy practice seem less dire.

lol yeah,you win a few days,what a champ!

also boosts are fine,i have done the content dozens of times,it literaly is pay for convenience to shave off some days of booring stuff that is literaly irelevant

granted day 1 boosts is a horrific idea,but it took wow until what?wod to have em?and they are SOOO greedy they even gave em for free with pre purchases

[Nzx]

Yeah huh. Oh I for sure believe the entitled immature acting person who is lashing out because I clearly struck a nerve. Oh please go on.

Just so you can note in the future, people who are cash poor generally aren't time rich. Being poor is incredibly more expensive and often poor people have to work extended periods in order to make ends meet. This is also a big reason why poor people can't just go get an education because they're already working at least 40 hours a week. But it's cool, you just flat proved you have no idea what it's like being poor.

This take is absurd. I've been working since I was 14 years old. I work more hours now than I did when I was earning less money because my job is more demanding and I have infinitely more responsibility. I'm pretty sure I've even commented elsewhere on this site about the "poor tax" and how things like late fees and "prompt payment discounts" and even taxes on shit like cigarettes disproportionately affect the poor, so you can shove your bullshit trying to paint me as some kind of old-money millionaire. You are exactly the problem I was talking about; can't even fathom the potential benefits of MTX for monetizing a game's development and therefore ending up with more content for everyone because you're obsessed with the plight of people I wasn't even talking about.

I'm not supporting loot boxes (which are gambling garbage, another thing disproportionately geared to impact the poor) or purchasing power beyond what other people can obtain in game, we're talking about thirty dollar fucking boosts here, and not even necessarily to max level. Maybe $5 cosmetic helmets or something. These aren't "us vs them, haves vs have nots" situations, its allowing players to choose to spend whatever resource is more available to them in order to engage in a video game with their friends, or to support its development, or just to buy something they think looks cool.

[starstationprofm]

,it literaly is pay for convenience

Pay for convenience does not exist. It's a term coined by a scummy dev to fool a bunch of idiots that someone paying dollars to get stuff ingame that others work for is ok. Pay to win is the term you're looking for.

[kenn9530]

Pay for convenience does not exist. It's a term coined by a scummy dev to fool a bunch of idiots that someone paying dollars to get stuff ingame that others work for is ok. Pay to win is the term you're looking for.

There is no P2W in New World and that is fact, time to move along and discuss something of actual relevance.

[deenman]

Pay for convenience does not exist. It's a term coined by a scummy dev to fool a bunch of idiots that someone paying dollars to get stuff ingame that others work for is ok. Pay to win is the term you're looking for.

saving a few days is CONVENIENCE as it comes,get over it

[La]

Well, it really depends on what's in the store. For example, a lot of Korean MMO's or games in general have you kill a ton of enemies per minute, and they all drop a ton of items per minute. They make it really impossible to manually loot everything, so the solution is to buy pets. That might be someone's definition of convenience, since you technically can individually loot things for 30 seconds, when most enemies drop garbage en mass with the odd valuable item, so you're encouraged to mass kill as fast as possible and not do that. So, it is pay to win, but people defend it as "convenience" because they're morons. It is, by design.. designed to force you to feel it's necessary to spend money. The difference is, some games like that aren't even F2P.

Good example is BDO, where you need several pets to be efficient, but guess what? When you get better gear and you kill faster, you quickly realize those pets are total garbage. They can't even loot as fast as you can kill. So you have to buy more, breed them, hope you get lucky because you aren't even 100% guaranteed to get a better one. And then still brainwashed people will pretend that's fine because "Well, sometimes they have one event in a year that is the reward if you login every day for 30 days" or "It doesn't even affect most people"

Those people who defend it are a big problem and the reason those companies get away with it in the first place. Of course, things like xp boots, cosmetics, or things in general that may make something faster but not have a huge impact are probably more than fine. I'm sure a lot of things are, even boosts. Between New World and the, as I mentioned, other Korean MMO Lost Ark that Amazon is translating for the West, which has heavy pay2"convenience" aspects, along with a ton of daily/weekly gated content and mobile game mechanics, it's something I'm going to guarantee people get tired of.

[Sarethion]

My problem with "pay for convenience" features is that they provide an incentive for the developers to make the game significantly less "convenient".

In other words, if they design their systems in a way that's fair and enjoyable for people who don't pay for boosts, I don't really have a problem with someone paying extra to level up faster or whatever. But if for instance leveling turns out to be a boring slog that you just want to get past as fast as possible (which means: you want to buy the exp boost), then that's just horrible.

To some extent, I think WoW is a positive example here - take the current level 50 boost. Does anyone really care that Blizzard still sells them? I mean, leveling is so fast that before you start getting tired of doing it, you're already level 50, i.e. unless you really hate leveling and have lots of disposable income, there's no real reason to buy the boost.

If that's what the approach Amazon wants to take with New World, I don't really see a problem, but if they decide to make you miseable while playing until you give up and go buy the boost, then that's a strong "nope" from me.

[mikevenable]

i can't wait to play

[Advent]

Nonsense, the majority of people agree on some things that are ridiculous. Like wearing clown shoes on a date. It's so unanimously agreed that's ridiculous that you can state it as a fact. Just like how I can state facts about BDO.

You would be incorrect, I'm afraid.

Why would I care what a linguist says?

Because you're arguing using incorrect language. A linguist would sort out where you're wrong here.

No, it wouldn't be. And facts are just opinions people accept en masse.

Like " Shit tastes bad " " Pus looks nasty " " Vomit smells bad "

Those things are so overwhelmingly agreed upon that no one's gonna' go " Woah that's an opinion bro that's subjective111!!! here's my literature degree btw " when you say them.

This isn't how facts work. Facts are objectively proven, not just "generally agreed upon". That's what a consensus is. Language.

Mine and anyone whose opinion about a game is worth a damn. Anyone who looks at BDO's AI and thinks " This is fine " is outright wrong. And this isn't opinion, it's simply fact. The AI is laughable, it just stands there and does nothing. I can safely, unanimously call it a bad AI, even if in your opinion ( see what I did there ) that's an opinion.

Not wrong, they have different tastes. Or are you going to argue that people who like games similar to Dynasty Warriors are wrong too? Is that also one of those "facts" you're going to hit us with?

WRONG.

One character beating 10 being bad balance is FACT.

Any game developer is going to tell you that 1 player should not be able to beat multiple just because he chose a certain class.

You can argue that the game design isn't a good fit, or that they've failed to properly educate players on what those classes are supposed to be. If the wizard/witch classes are meant to be like mini world bosses, the design should reflect that. Just as an example. But I don't think you have any authority to argue on behalf of a developer unless you understand the design intent.

Find that person.

Hi, how are ya?

[starstationprofm]

saving a few days is CONVENIENCE as it comes,get over it

Saving a few days means WINNING against the player that plays the same amount of time as you but refuses to swipe his credit card.

Thus, pay to win.

[Edge-]

Saving a few days means WINNING against the player that plays the same amount of time as you but refuses to swipe his credit card.

Thus, pay to win.

Winning what, yo? Hitting max level in a MMO means very little in most games and it's where many "start".