PvP Lost Some Meaning

[Cempa]

Clearly those behind Legion design wanted to move the game away from being able to get what you want to RNG .. You see, before Legion, one could aim for specific gear and play to get it. Legion took that away from us and moved towards Asian/Korean style grind/RNG game design philosophy which assumes 'luck' to be the greatest contributor to ones 'success' in life.

Thing is Western Civilization believes that hard work pays off and 'luck' has very little to do with it. That does not mean every one gets what they want, it simply means if you do not work hard you can be assured you will never get what you want.

A subscription based MMO is not life, and those playing it want to have fun .. Extreme degrees of RNG are not fun ... From Legendaries to PvP loot-box .. Is Holinka part Asian?

[Felrane]

They kind of made gear not matter to much in pvp anyways. I mean sure it matters but grinding artifact power is the only thing you really need to focus on which is still about working toward a goal. You also work toward your pvp talents so really PVP didn't lose much of anything im glad i no longer have to grind gear but thats just a personal opinion.

[Cempa]

They kind of made gear not matter to much in pvp anyways. I mean sure it matters but grinding artifact power is the only thing you really need to focus on which is still about working toward a goal. You also work toward your pvp talents so really PVP didn't lose much of anything im glad i no longer have to grind gear but thats just a personal opinion.

Good points though I have a different take on it, aiming for gear while being on an equal footing with base power was much more fun than being on equal base on gear but grinding character power ..

It used to take days to close the gap between a new max level and a fully powerd-up max level .. Legion pretty much swindled us by having all the spin/PR focus on 'gear' while adding AP and PvP talents ..

So today a AP +30 character with all PvP talents unlocked has weeks if not months advantage over a fresh 110 ..

They want the game to be played by the 'grind' Asian mmo mentality folk ..

[Cirrus]

The main problem with PvP for a long time is that it does not feel rewarding at all. It might be an unpopular opinion but i think that a guy who plays 6-12 hours of pvp per day should absolutely roflstomp a guy who plays none to 2 hours of pvp gameplay. If i'm hitting a guy who is 20 ilvls lower than me like a ramen to the face, then what's the point?

[Osmeric]

So, anyone have data on how participation in PvP is doing? My gut feeling is it's down a lot (I have done no PvP in Legion except for some WQs, which did not involve actual PvP).

[Kagthul]

They kind of made gear not matter to much in pvp anyways. I mean sure it matters but grinding artifact power is the only thing you really need to focus on which is still about working toward a goal. You also work toward your pvp talents so really PVP didn't lose much of anything im glad i no longer have to grind gear but thats just a personal opinion.

There's absolutely no functional difference, except that the AP grind is FAR worse than any gear grind ever was.

[Deleted]

Before legion was released I actually like the new PvP system. Now after a month I want the old system back. I don't care if a fresh 110 is far away from someone who played pvp fully from start. That's the way it should be IMO. I liked to cap my CP and grinding out random BGs so I could buy honor gear. It was rewarding as you were gearing up while still doing PvP. Now getting 500 ap (still RNG drop) doesn't really reward me as I need a hell lot more. The thought was good for legion PvP system but some of the old goodies need to be brought back. I really hope they see this with the lack of PvP representation and do something about it.

[Volitar]

New system is awful from the start with RNG loot. PVP is about being on equal footing and outplaying people. Not to mention its fully killed off playing alts or offspecs.

[solarfallz]

PVP is about being on equal footing and outplaying people.

Says who? 10char

[Volitar]

Says who? 10char

Every competitive game ever?

[Caolela]

.. Legion pretty much swindled us by having all the spin/PR focus on 'gear' while adding AP and PvP talents ..

So today a AP +30 character with all PvP talents unlocked has weeks if not months advantage over a fresh 110 ..

For every 10 words Blizz spews, at least 8 of them are lies. The cool part for Blizz is once they get your money for an xpac or sub they don't have to refund it if you're not happy, so they feel pretty unaccountable.

[solarfallz]

Every competitive game ever?

so you're just going to ignore the fact that almost no mmo in history has had "equal footing" pvp? including the 12 years of this one?

[Mafic]

Either all gear matters or no gear matters. Making PVE raid gear best in slot in PVP kills PVP and loses meaning for most players that like PVP exclusively.

[Usagi Senshi]

so you're just going to ignore the fact that almost no mmo in history has had "equal footing" pvp? including the 12 years of this one?

Someone hasn't played PVP in other MMOs in the past 10+ years it seems. You're off..............by a fucking lot!

LOL

[solarfallz]

Someone hasn't played PVP in other MMOs in the past 10+ years it seems. You're off..............by a fucking lot!

LOL

so which mmos besides guild wars 2 have this "equal footing" pvp?

[ComputerNerd]

The main problem with PvP for a long time is that it does not feel rewarding at all. It might be an unpopular opinion but i think that a guy who plays 6-12 hours of pvp per day should absolutely roflstomp a guy who plays none to 2 hours of pvp gameplay. If i'm hitting a guy who is 20 ilvls lower than me like a ramen to the face, then what's the point?

If simply repetition of PvP can put you at a gameplay advantage in terms of stats then it is wrong.
The template is reducing the issue, but in my view the progression should have still been though everyone on an equal footing.
At the start of the expansion we have what is the nearest to an equal footing due to a gear reset.
That is never something we see again until the next one.

Artifact Power progression in PvP seems contradictory to the whole plan to reduce the influence of gear in PvP.
They made some steps in the right direction with the stat template and huge reduction in the item level influence, but due to the desire of players for gear rewards didn't quite go far enough and remove that entirely.

[Usagi Senshi]

so which mmos besides guild wars 2 have this "equal footing" pvp?

Unrated PVP - TERA
Lord of the Rings
RIFT
FFXIV (uses base gear, which everyone has)
Blade and Soul - have to grind some abilities though

Probably a few others but I don't feel like looking.

[Crruor]

There's absolutely no functional difference, except that the AP grind is FAR worse than any gear grind ever was.

Nah, so not true. You just forgot the times where you just got oneshot till you farmed honour for 40 hours of /played, then when you had honour gear you had to farm for a similar time to get the arena point gear, also having to get 2200 rating for proper gear. After that you had to farm raids on what currently is mythic to get proper gear. And you still had to win the equivalent of ashran, but not once per week but as often as possible. And then you had to get the legendaries if you class could use one.

Oh, and you had to spend a shitton of gold which alone took forever.


That was a grind, what we have now really isnt. You farm AP passively and on most classes it doesnt make a huge difference if you are 20 or 30, and 20 really doesnt take long now.

[Dragoncurry]

so which mmos besides guild wars 2 have this "equal footing" pvp?

Also guild wars 1. Also, every single person who conq capped every week in arena in WoD and most WoW Expansions where your PVP Gear capped every season. In fact, my gear was just as good as Bajheera's after a few months, he just got his earlier than mine bc I sat at 1500 and he's like 2.7K.


The only difference between then and now is that I don't get farmed in BGs for 3 months before getting to that point. How is the current system worse? Don't like it when someone who just hit level 110 outplays and wrecks your shit?

[Deleted]

The main problem with PvP for a long time is that it does not feel rewarding at all. It might be an unpopular opinion but i think that a guy who plays 6-12 hours of pvp per day should absolutely roflstomp a guy who plays none to 2 hours of pvp gameplay. If i'm hitting a guy who is 20 ilvls lower than me like a ramen to the face, then what's the point?

Then don't call that pvp or competitive pvp. Why would some nolife dude have an artificial advantage over someone else even if that nolife dude plays like shit. This gear system as a means to compare e-penises is terrible. If you get wrecked by some 'newbie" perhaps he is a better player than you or just has a stronger class. Take your virtual superiority needs elsewhere please

Regardless of gear, Legion has proven once again that the WoW development team have no clue about how pvp works

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And please don't come with this "I deserve a reward" crap, its a game, you don't deserve anything. All this "hard work" is nothing more than a silly idea to justify people geeking on a computer game. Nobody cares about your hard work on a virtual game. If the developers decide that pvp is to be played in itself and not to farm gear and have an illusory sense of superiority (I call it the Cartman aka frustrated phatass illusion of superiority) then thats how it is.

I still think pvp is crap but not because of equal footing but because there isn't an equal footing even without gear. Classes are so badly balanced it will always be a FOTM fest for all the brainless gamers that suck at real competitive games and come in MMOs pvp to pretend they are any good.