Demo: HoG spam/Implosion build to increase dps?

[discoslice]

I'm chatting with another Warlock over on the main WoW forums. She suggests dumping Dreadstalkers completely, and focusing on generating as many imps as possible for an insane Thak'iel's Consumption, along with using Implosion to get a massive AoE hit when they die. She says this is good for ST and AoE, sometimes getting a 1 million TC hit, along with 800k Doom ticks with all CDs and trinkets popped. Anyway, that sounds insane!

Her build is:

Shadowflame
Implosion
Demon Skin
Soul Harvest
Dark Pact
Grimoire of Synergy
Soul Conduit

Her strategy: "Like the tank pulls a pack of mob i empower felguard then felstorm and hog then demon wrath then hog the dw then and about this time my first of imps are about expire then i implode.

In boss fights i open like this: Doom shadowbolt×2, doomguard, shadowflame, soul harvest, hog spam to 0 shard, empower the thal kiel into implosion. Its insane burst i peak like 300k sometimes."

I'm just wondering if this is effective for others - I haven't seen a build like this without Dreadstalkers. I'm trying this on a dummy and getting like 100k dps so am I doing it wrong? Thoughts?

[Deleted]

Hello, you are not doing it wrong. This build is a burst build used mainly in pvp. I guess it can work in normal dungeons where Mobs die fast and Doom doesnt tick and where soul harvest can help burst a boss (which will die in 20 sec anyway). Other than that, its pretty bad for sustained dmg. When you start doing harder content and mobs live long enaugh for doom to tick you really cant play without Hand of Doom esp on trashpacks. Your last talent pick depends on many things ie dungeon/group composition and if you want to focus more on burst aoe/sustained aoe/st.

I would advice to check Not's guide in the stickies. And also read through the thread. There is a lot of usefull information there that will help you understand the spec better.

[Inshabel]

Implosion is way too strong not to use atm, it's a big increase also for ST, personally I only cast stalkers if Demonic Calling procs.

[Deleted]

Implosion is way too strong not to use atm, it's a big increase also for ST, personally I only cast stalkers if Demonic Calling procs.

Depends, for dungeons you ll get implosion anyway for the aoe, so you will use it on st bosses too. For ST bosses in raids like Nythedra and Ursoc impr Dreadstalkers is way better

Edit: also casting Dreadstalkers only when demonic proc (ST) is a dps loss

[Thepaintrain]

I calling / implosion / hand of doom... minor dps hit to ST for a huge aoe.
Implosion is the pushbutton aoe every spec needs. Its too good to pass up when there are 2 or more targets. NOT for ST.

[Drutt]

I am of the opinion that Implosion should be baseline. It's a fun ability that provides much needed burst that the spec otherwise lacks. The fact it comes with a downside (nuking your imps) means there are often tradeoffs depending on the situation.

[xuros]

Depends, for dungeons you ll get implosion anyway for the aoe, so you will use it on st bosses too. For ST bosses in raids like Nythedra and Ursoc impr Dreadstalkers is way better

Edit: also casting Dreadstalkers only when demonic proc (ST) is a dps loss

For mythic dungeons i use Implosion for trash and bosses with adds but for single target bosses i play like i dont have it. The imps do way to much ST damage to implode them on just one target. Right before the boss dies blow em up for the huge hit at the end to kinda inflate the numbers but thats about it.

[Jimmyleggs]

Implosion is way too strong not to use atm, it's a big increase also for ST, personally I only cast stalkers if Demonic Calling procs.

This is just not true. It is only true in the situation in which the boss will die before that round of imps does damage, i.e. probably a sub 30sec kill where you can't get more than 2 DStalk casts off to make the 2 additional imps from improved worth it. This is pretty much never going to happen in any real ST fight scenario.

To answer OP, 2 dreadstalkers is more health benefit towards Thalk's Consump than 4 imps at a cost of just 2 shards as opposed to 4. Skipping out on DS is always going to be a dps loss except in PURE burst AoE situations. He/she might still be living in the past of the pre-patch where the Hellfire class trinket made it so that casting DStalk was a waste.

[discoslice]

Ok guys thanks for the input. She did end up clarifying that this is a burst-y build and can't be sustained. Seems like it would be useful for trash clearing, then you might need to respec at boss. I've read Not's guide and understand what's up. That said, I am still having a hard time getting decent Demo numbers. Granted, I've played Destro almost exclusively until I got that cool Thak'iel alternate head look.

I feel like I'm constantly staring at expiration timers and there's much more pressure on me than in normal Destro rotations. Pathetically, I did 115k dps on a heroic 5-man, whereas I pull circa 250k on destro in EN and mythics. I'm sure things can be improved with my rotation. Part of it is that I feel there's too much going on and possibly I can't handle it all. Shadowflame I can work with and find useful for shard generation on the fly, but Implosion I find a challenge with timing and such. If I spec Hand of Doom and Darkglare, I am much more competent, but, not sure how much a DPS loss there is. I assume that talent combo is kinda worthless for bosses.

Can someone suggest a noob-ish Demo spec for someone that is decent and not too demanding? I'm a competent player and have just been frustrated by my Demo performance. P.S. my iLevel is 845, haste at 23%, 17 ranks into Thak'iel (working on Doom upgrades now.)

Here's my char link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...elphius/simple

[Deleted]

Hey, while I think Implosion is nice spell, i think you are shooting yourself to leg if you do not take imp. DStalk. It gives 2 demons more for TKC and Demonbolt. And when you explode your imps you have less demons for your Demonbolt. I can't remember exact number for avg DB, but its over 120k iirc (can check from logs when i get to home).

With swarm spec I'm doing around 270k in fights like Nythendra HC or Ursoc (Haste over 30%, 852 equipped ilvl with no legendary). I have higher ilvl items in bags, but haste is the stat you really want to push for. I think haste has slightly higher stat weight than Int till atleast 30%. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ps. I think ppl are underestimating Demonwrath in high pull AoE situations.

[Deleted]

Ok guys thanks for the input. She did end up clarifying that this is a burst-y build and can't be sustained. Seems like it would be useful for trash clearing, then you might need to respec at boss. I've read Not's guide and understand what's up. That said, I am still having a hard time getting decent Demo numbers. Granted, I've played Destro almost exclusively until I got that cool Thak'iel alternate head look.

I feel like I'm constantly staring at expiration timers and there's much more pressure on me than in normal Destro rotations. Pathetically, I did 115k dps on a heroic 5-man, whereas I pull circa 250k on destro in EN and mythics. I'm sure things can be improved with my rotation. Part of it is that I feel there's too much going on and possibly I can't handle it all. Shadowflame I can work with and find useful for shard generation on the fly, but Implosion I find a challenge with timing and such. If I spec Hand of Doom and Darkglare, I am much more competent, but, not sure how much a DPS loss there is. I assume that talent combo is kinda worthless for bosses.

Can someone suggest a noob-ish Demo spec for someone that is decent and not too demanding? I'm a competent player and have just been frustrated by my Demo performance. P.S. my iLevel is 845, haste at 23%, 17 ranks into Thak'iel (working on Doom upgrades now.)

Here's my char link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...elphius/simple

Problem: You have low haste. Haste on Demo is vital (it's even better than Int!). Oh, and Darkglare is only a middle dps loss in ST, whereas you get a major AoE boost. But really, you need at least 30% haste.

[Zuckuss]

that build is in Not's demonology guide listed as a dungeon spec. I use that build for dungeons as well. Just remember your first HoG should not immediately be imploded, you should cast implosion following the second. The goal is to maintain 4 imps the entire time. Some of it is timing; the new imps won't implode immediately either, they have to sorta "materialize" for a 1/4 second or so before you can implode them. Your DPS can plummet if allow yourself to go without 4 imps out for ST.

Your opening for a perfect TKC should always include dreadstalkers.

You mentioned your single target was very low, are you using shadow bolt or demonwrath?

Part of this spec involves gaming numbers. Think of shard generation like dice rolling. DemonWrath is your first roll to generate the initial shard(s). It's like rolling a 6.6 sided dice (15%) per enemy you hit. Each enemy hit gets their own pair of dice for rolling.

Soul Conduit is a 20% chance to roll for shards on consumption. (kind of like a reroll for winning on demonwrath but not exactly, consumption vs generation, one necessarily follows the other)

The builds DPS is totally dependant upon the odds of you generating the shards quickly with demonwrath and dumping enough shards to generate secondary rolls through conduit.

In single target you are better off not using demonwrath because the number of dice rolls is low and slow compared to a guaranteed shadow bolt. Also, you aren't generated a large number of soul conduit secondary rolls. Shadowbolt is the best filler for ST damage and shard generation.

You should also be trying to stack that shadowflame up to 3. On trash packs you can treat it as shards on demand, but the DPS loss on ST is noticeable since ST lack shard generation compared to AOE, demonwrath.

Also on ST try to squeeze as much time out of your imps as possible

[mhdoe]

It is great for some aoe burst situations but will always lose out to the regular builds for st on longer fights.

[adamswagem]

Implosion is way too strong not to use atm, it's a big increase also for ST, personally I only cast stalkers if Demonic Calling procs.

One of the most wrong things I have read regarding demonology lol wow

[Deleted]

Implosion is way too strong not to use atm, it's a big increase also for ST, personally I only cast stalkers if Demonic Calling procs.

How have your results been with this playstyle? any logs?
I find it extremely hard to believe that this playstyle benefits your ST dps.

[Gratlim]

I play something similar:

My build is:

Shadowflame
Implosion
Demon Skin
Hand of Doom only diff
Dark Pact
Grimoire of Synergy
Soul Conduit

I never cast demonwrath (using shadow bolt as filler). The differanse is that I cast HoG every 4 shards immediately followed by implosion and then DE. I always Implode at 4 shards no matter what. And Implosion is around 34% of my dps.
At 31% haste, 10% crit and ilvl 844 (no legs) i manage around 200k dps on long ST fights, 250k dps on cleave and around 300k dps on burst aoe. I have to say the plague hive trinket (only 835) does around 11% of my dps though.

As far as I am conserned that is the highes dps i reached while playing demo. It is a bit higher than my destro build as well. Around 20k more than improve Dreads build without implosion.

[Zuckuss]

I got recurrent ritual the other day and was running the soul conduit + implosion build in dungeons.

I believe that soul conduit will refund additional shards on dreadstalkers.

In other words, cast dread stalkers -> consume 2 shards -> instant refund (recurrent ritual) -> the initial consumption has a chance to proc soul conduit.

Use 2, get 2 (recurrent ritual), potentially get 2 more (soul conduit) with demonic calling you potentially be getting 4 shards if RNGesus permits conduit to work in your favor.

Just an interesting twist I noticed when running the build OP mentioned.

Also, i prefer hand of doom over soul harvest